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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 20:46:31 GMT
The show, for me, falls down because it demands empathy for someone who, by their actions, isn't deserving of it. American theatre, at its best, has always been equivocal but this is just manipulative and self pitying.
This will likely be an unpopular view but I find it to be cynically written and aggressive in its pushing for the audience to feel and cry. If you don't buy into that, the show is just a big nothing. Another show, also with a younger cast, like Spring Awakening has a more sophisticated score, a greater theatricality and empathy that is better earned for its not being foisted on the audience.
It is, for me, the worst of American theatre yet look on the American equivalents to here and you will read posts comparing it favourably to Hamilton.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 21:14:46 GMT
The show, for me, falls down because it demands empathy for someone who, by their actions, isn't deserving of it. American theatre, at its best, has always been equivocal but this is just manipulative and self pitying. This will likely be an unpopular view but I find it to be cynically written and aggressive in its pushing for the audience to feel and cry. If you don't buy into that, the show is just a big nothing. Another show, also with a younger cast, like Spring Awakening has a more sophisticated score, a greater theatricality and empathy that is better earned for its not being foisted on the audience. It is, for me, the worst of American theatre yet look on the American equivalents to here and you will read posts comparing it favourably to Hamilton. Yeah. Nothing about it feels genuine to me. There's an element of emotional manipulation in almost every Broadway musical but with this one it almost seems to be the purpose of the show. I mean, the most heartbreaking thing that happens in the show should be Connor's suicide but we never even find out why he kills himself and it's just used as a plot device to prop up how hard life is for Evan. It grosses me out. I think teens buy into this show really easily because most teenagers think they're special and are going through something much deeper than everyone else, like Evan supposedly is. If you notice, almost none of the words he says/sings are specific to him, just emotional cliches that are relatable to almost anyone, especially teenagers. And their parents love the show too because the other side of it is about how difficult it us to be a parent of a teenager. This is obviously a generalisation but I feel like people that aren't in the two groups (teens/parents of teens) are able to identify the flaws with this show much more quickly, due to the lack of emotional relation to the material. I don't know, for me I could go on all day about the flaws of this show, I think it's so much more than just one thing. It seems like people (including Tony voters apparently) are just completely willing to overlook bad writing because of a great performance, a couple of catchy songs and some emotional manipulation. I think if they took out the songs and changed them into dialogue, and had another actor playing Evan, the critics would have gone in on this show. |
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Post by ali973 on Jun 15, 2017 4:27:18 GMT
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Post by viserys on Jun 15, 2017 5:15:04 GMT
the most heartbreaking thing that happens in the show should be Connor's suicide but we never even find out why he kills himself and it's just used as a plot device to prop up how hard life is for Evan. It grosses me out. THIS (among other things) It was one of the most surprising things to me when watching the show that there's never any explanation about WHY Connor committed suicide. He just seems to be a foil for woe-is-me-Evan. The other young people are also mere ciphers. There would have been plenty of opportunities to use them to bring up actual problems teenagers face today. The Alana girl is depicted as a keen student/overachiever, so how about giving her something to sing about the immense pressure on teenagers today to succeed in this messed-up world? Zoe also basically remains a cipher beyond "my brother was mean to me". That Lady Geek Girl comes off a bit strongly, but she has some great points in her blog. Incidentally I was ready to throw my iPad against the wall yesterday after the third episode of 13 Reasons Which (right now) also appears to be some artificially constructed woe-is-me-teenage drama. However, with so many episodes left to go, I still have hope that it gets better and deeper. But FWIW, I think the UK does serious drama about teenagers and their problems much better. "My Mad Fat Diary" was fantastic and even the over-the-top "Skins" handled a lot of serious issues in sometimes surprisingly deep and touching ways. There's just something about that "white middle-class suburban" setting in US shows that turns me off. But I'm getting off tangent here. |
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Post by d'James on Jun 15, 2017 5:25:48 GMT
I don't know this musical at all, but viserys, I would stick with 13 Reasons Why. Some of the middle episodes drag terribly but the final three or four are good. I have to say though, that all Netflix Original series are generally a let-down. They get overhyped to the extreme and they're all just 'OK.' |
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Post by viserys on Jun 15, 2017 5:32:09 GMT
I don't know this musical at all, but viserys , I would stick with 13 Reasons Why. Some of the middle episodes drag terribly but the final three or four are good. I have to say though, that all Netflix Original series are generally a let-down. They get overhyped to the extreme and they're all just 'OK.' Okay - I admittedly rarely give up completely on TV shows, even if I end up doing other things on the side. I absolutely love OITNB, otherwise I'd also class most Netflix stuff as "okay" - Marco Polo had great potential (I'm a sucker for historical stuff) but sadly they cheapened it way too much with all that gratutious nudity sex nonsense. Still gutted that they axed The Get Down so quickly though. When you live in a cultural wasteland like I do, you just appreciate Netflix for being there and giving you access to tons of good TV shows in their original versions. |
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Post by danb on Jun 15, 2017 6:11:42 GMT
Isn't all teen drama self indulgent, shallow and selfish? When you're a teenager that feeling of being misunderstood and wanting to be your own person etc might only last for a nano second, but is driven by chemicals in your brain above all else as much as the human condition or your relationship with your peers. To berate DEH for being a 'middle class white boy' version of this misses the point. We know what it is before we go in, so surely that's our choice to make; not a stick to beat it with when it is found to be lacking.
If an audience finds it in themself to 'forgive' Evan along the way it's up to them, just as much as I'm entitled to still think he's a whiny dickhead. I think anyone expecting more than a musical episode of 'Dawsons Creek' should do a bit more research before visiting! 😂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2017 9:57:38 GMT
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Post by danielwhit on Jun 15, 2017 21:25:43 GMT
Interrupting all of your well thought out and well written posts to be silly and ask that if we're going to have a mental health musical that wont sell in London, can it at least be the really good one? Yes I know about the rights issue. BUT COME ON. I need to see this show live again. Also Tom Kitt must be fuming at how much 'Good For You' sounds like this. So - I'm slightly unsure here. What's the rights issue surrounding Next to Normal? And thanks for the video, I had forgotten how good half of the score for N2N is! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2017 21:31:02 GMT
Interrupting all of your well thought out and well written posts to be silly and ask that if we're going to have a mental health musical that wont sell in London, can it at least be the really good one? Yes I know about the rights issue. BUT COME ON. I need to see this show live again. Also Tom Kitt must be fuming at how much 'Good For You' sounds like this. So - I'm slightly confused. What's the rights issue surrounding Next to Normal? The Broadway producer(s) wont release them to anyone in the UK basically. Seems like they eventually plan to stage the Broadway production here and want that to be the first version we see but it's taking them way too long. An Edinburgh Fringe production even had to be cancelled a few years ago because they couldn't get the rights. Meanwhile, it's being performed all over the world including places like Israel and Peru. |
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Post by welsh_tenor on Jun 19, 2017 18:06:04 GMT
Now... I know you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet (except off-of TheatreBoard of course...)
Listening to DEH videos on YouTube and on the Tony performance someone commented how cute it was that Ben Platt lifts his leg and arms up in sync to be quirky with his character. Someone then commented to say he does that as it helps him belt the high notes due to a trapped nerve.
Even as I type I can see most of you rolling your eyes... but surely this is too random to be made up!?
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Post by singularsensation10 on Jun 19, 2017 19:31:22 GMT
As a classically trained singer, I can categorically confirm that that is not a thing. I've tried to sing through the DEH score and most of it sits on my break - Ben has an extensive and effortless top range. He doesn't need to shake his trapped nerve to hit a B flat 😂
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Post by alison on Jun 19, 2017 19:47:04 GMT
Now... I know you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet (except off-of TheatreBoard of course...) Listening to DEH videos on YouTube and on the Tony performance someone commented how cute it was that Ben Platt lifts his leg and arms up in sync to be quirky with his character. Someone then commented to say he does that as it helps him belt the high notes due to a trapped nerve. Even as I type I can see most of you rolling your eyes... but surely this is too random to be made up!? It definitely was mentioned as something that he does in an article about him before the Tonys though. Let me see if I can find it. Edit: Here's the article in question, it's about halfway down: www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/theater/how-ben-platt-beame-the-toast-of-broadway-dear-evan-hansen-tony-awards.html"Ms. Caplan massaged the muscles around his larynx and had him put peppermint oil in his nose. “We need to Roto-Rooter out his sinuses,” she said. They went through a series of exercises that gradually grew more intense, his range expanding and volume rising. “Use the knees,” she said. “Let the hip flexors help you.” As he started to belt more, he lifted one leg and bent at the knee, to relieve pressure on the vagus nerve and, as Ms. Caplan described it, “keep the neck and upper body from straining and separating.” “We’re putting notes into his body in a positive, non-stressed way,” she said. “So then when he’s onstage in those unhealthy positions, he’ll be able to access them.” It’s a gesture you see him repeat in the show, most notably in the second-act aria, “Words Fail,” in which he confesses to the Murphys that everything he’s told them is a lie. He’s standing before them, hunched and sobbing. It seems an impossible posture from which to project a song, but he’s incorporated the leg-lifting into his character so that it reads to the audience like a bodily expression of intolerable emotion. “There are all these other little places where I lean back and fill my diaphragm, and then go back into it,” he said. “Or, because I’m crying so hard, spaces where I know I can swallow the mucus that’s coming down. We put all these little things in place, and now they’re just there, they’re second nature, so I can just let it fly.”" |
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Post by welsh_tenor on Jun 19, 2017 20:37:15 GMT
alison that's brilliant and I sit corrected! It sounded too random to be made up! Thanks for sharing!
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Post by singularsensation10 on Jun 19, 2017 20:53:55 GMT
Consider my words eaten! Bloody Americans and their expressive behaviours... *runs off to use my hip flexors to extend my range*
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Post by ali973 on Jun 19, 2017 20:57:43 GMT
Ben gave a fantastic performance, but since seeing it in December,I can't remember how high lifts whatever he's lifting.
I didn't read the article, but the explanation of his physiotherapist sounds like pseudoscience.
Ok I'm cranky I'm going to bed. .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 21:10:11 GMT
This is utterly brilliant, consider my day officially made  |
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Post by TallPaul on Jun 20, 2017 12:30:58 GMT
I bet Paul Nicholas didn't faff about like this at the height of his powers!
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Post by viserys on Jun 23, 2017 4:58:47 GMT
Nobody mentioned this bit from the latest round of Baz updates in the Daily Fail:
Early efforts are being made to bring Tony award-winning musical Dear Evan Hansen to London, but it will probably go outside the West End first, then transfer. It’s a stunning piece of work, but a major factor in its success is the central performance by Ben Platt (who also won a Tony). He is a rare sensation.
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Post by ali973 on Jun 23, 2017 5:47:50 GMT
hmmm...outside of the West End like where? Somewhere like Manchester? I wonder why they'd do that, it's not like they will be trying out rewrites? It's also not such a huge spectacle that requires working out technical kinks.
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jun 23, 2017 6:41:23 GMT
Outside the West End doesn't mean outside London. It means not the West End. Many theatres are not the West End.
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Post by viserys on Jun 23, 2017 7:00:33 GMT
Yea, my guess is some place like the Menier, Southwark Playhouse, Charing X Theatre, Young Vic, etc...
Actually Young Vic springs to mind, they did Scottsboro Boys which then transferred and I'm sure they are hoping to transfer Fun Home too, if it succeeds.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 9:19:39 GMT
Yea, my guess is some place like the Menier, Southwark Playhouse, Charing X Theatre, Young Vic, etc... Actually Young Vic springs to mind, they did Scottsboro Boys which then transferred and I'm sure they are hoping to transfer Fun Home too, if it succeeds. Young Vic is too small for the current production (and Menier, Southwark etc are even smaller).
More likely is Lyric Hammersmith, but Spring Awakening at the same venue was transferred poorly.
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Post by ali973 on Jun 23, 2017 9:26:27 GMT
I'm with Pirelli here- this is NOT a small-fringe show a la Menier, Southwark or Young Vic. This is a high tech show, with lights going crazy all over the place and TV monitors with overactive "status updates". After working on it for such a long time and touring in the US, I'm sure they'd want to export the same product and not reinvent the wheel with a new blue print, design, etc. Plus, why would a fringe venue, typically seeking non-mainstream topics pick this up? This show is as commercial and mainstream as it can get.
And again..if IN London but not in the West End..why?
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Post by welsh_tenor on Jun 23, 2017 9:58:22 GMT
Stick it in the West End and be done with it. Pay Ben Platt to come over and open it for 6 months ala Idina/Wicked and then cast Liam Doyle as Standby to take over full time after!
Simples - I'll ring Marc Platt now!
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