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Post by 49thand8th on Jun 2, 2017 15:38:36 GMT
Why do you keep replying above the quoted post?
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 2, 2017 22:01:00 GMT
Because I have so much to say ! Why do you keep replying above the quoted post? Oops |
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Post by danielwhit on Jun 10, 2017 11:11:28 GMT
Back on topic - this would be a worthy addition to the London scene. However, it reminds me of Next to Normal for so many reasons, and therefore I doubt it ever will make it over here in the original production.
The positive it is definitely can be performed in a black box type environment, and therefore can easily find itself running in one of the smaller houses without problems. The emotional impact of the show comes from the music and performances, not complex staging.
Fingers crossed..
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Post by Mark on Jun 12, 2017 12:16:07 GMT
6 Tony Awards....
Most Best Musical winners have made the transfer. Really hoping we get this one.
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Post by welsh_tenor on Jun 12, 2017 12:59:32 GMT
I asked the question before about Ben Platt coming over with this, but given the Tony success surely if this comes over he could come for a 6 month stint?!
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Post by avenueqresident on Jun 12, 2017 13:07:47 GMT
I reckon Cameron Mackintosh has already sealed the deal, he sure loves to get those Broadway sellouts secured, following Hamilton's transfer.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 13:28:22 GMT
I asked the question before about Ben Platt coming over with this, but given the Tony success surely if this comes over he could come for a 6 month stint?! He's been doing it for years what with the Arena Stage and Second Stage productions. If you read the NYT profile on him, he doesn't have a social life, barely speaks outside of the show etc. Even at the Tonys when he'd been out of the show on vocal rest, he sounded run down. I really think once November comes that will be it for him in this role. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 13:34:23 GMT
I asked the question before about Ben Platt coming over with this, but given the Tony success surely if this comes over he could come for a 6 month stint?! Surely it would be a better career move for him to stay in New York and try to take advantage of his newly-acquired Tony Award-winner title? |
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Post by ali973 on Jun 12, 2017 13:45:24 GMT
People here LOVE to use "surely". No, not surely. Nothing is definite in the business we call show.
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Post by singularsensation10 on Jun 12, 2017 14:19:28 GMT
Saw the show Saturday matinee in NYC and Ben was out on vocal rest - having seen the show without Ben, I am a firm believer that with the right casting this show will do well in London even without Ben. It's not an easy sing and there certainly isn't any leads in London at the moment I can think of that could sing or act it - it needs someone phenomenal, a recent grad maybe, who can be discovered and propelled to stardom. No need for a TV show though!!!
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Post by singularsensation10 on Jun 12, 2017 14:20:56 GMT
Saw the show Saturday matinee in NYC and Ben was out on vocal rest - having seen the show without Ben, I am a firm believer that with the right casting this show will do well in London even without Ben. It's not an easy sing and there certainly isn't any leads in London at the moment I can think of that could sing or act it - it needs someone phenomenal, a recent grad maybe, who can be discovered and propelled to stardom. No need for a TV show though!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 14:38:05 GMT
People here LOVE to use "surely". No, not surely. Nothing is definite in the business we call show. Considering I phrased my post as a question rather than any kind of statement of fact I think your pedantry in respect of my choice of words is a little unwarranted! I get the point though and I agree, my point really was I don't think it makes much sense at all for him to come over here when the label "Tony-winner" is more meaningful on the other side of the pond. |
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Post by ali973 on Jun 12, 2017 14:39:15 GMT
You know what..I still don't see it in London. What was the latest London transfer from Broadway? Hamilton is one, and Hamilton has a whole LOT more cross over appeal to the masses than EH. Also, from an operational perspective, it'll be quite sometime before it lands here. Hamilton has already launched a permanent sit-down in Chicago AND a national tour in the US before it even opened in London. They've already announced a tour of Evan Hansen, so I'm sure they'll only talk about international productions much later after they've finalized their work on the domestic market first.
Having said that, I still don't think it'll come. With exception to everyone on this board, I don't think the British public is into a show like this, and neither will the tourists.
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Post by danielwhit on Jun 13, 2017 15:19:58 GMT
But why is Hamilton a runaway success with a massive hype machine around it? it's a hip-hop musical about politics in the late 18th Century. On paper it doesn't sound like it should be a success at all - so I'm not sure why you say it has a lot more cross over appeal to the masses than DEH.
Dear Evan Hansen deals with hard-hitting, accessible and important subjects. It raises issues which would speak to a lot of people here. It's the type of show which would develop an extremely passionate fan base if it does make its way over the pond.
I agree it is probably unlikely, however I don't think it can be dismissed due to lack of potential appeal. If it made it on Broadway, it can make it here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 15:40:37 GMT
But why is Hamilton a runaway success with a massive hype machine around it? it's a hip-hop musical about politics in the late 18th Century. On paper it doesn't sound like it should be a success at all - so I'm not sure why you say it has a lot more cross over appeal to the masses than DEH. Dear Evan Hansen deals with hard-hitting, accessible and important subjects. It raises issues which would speak to a lot of people here. It's the type of show which would develop an extremely passionate fan base if it does make its way over the pond. I agree it is probably unlikely, however I don't think it can be dismissed due to lack of potential appeal. If it made it on Broadway, it can make it here. I agree. DEH has the potential to fill the void that Curious Incident will leave having closed. Its a similar demographic and touches similar subject matter, with the biggest difference being the story being rooted in US vs UK. |
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Post by ali973 on Jun 13, 2017 15:45:02 GMT
But why is Hamilton a runaway success with a massive hype machine around it? it's a hip-hop musical about politics in the late 18th Century. On paper it doesn't sound like it should be a success at all - so I'm not sure why you say it has a lot more cross over appeal to the masses than DEH. Dear Evan Hansen deals with hard-hitting, accessible and important subjects. It raises issues which would speak to a lot of people here. It's the type of show which would develop an extremely passionate fan base if it does make its way over the pond. I agree it is probably unlikely, however I don't think it can be dismissed due to lack of potential appeal. If it made it on Broadway, it can make it here. Hamilton is a smash hit because it's a lot more inclusive, groundbreaking and subversive. Hamilton has massive appeal because minority Americans who have never found themselves as part of the country's history outside of oppression, can finally make a connection to that part of history. Immigration is a 'UGE topic these days- and one of the core themes of Hamilton is immigrants and their stories. The fact that it is a hip-hop/rap musical makes it a lot more appealing, simply due to the unusual mixing of genres and also because the characters in this show are white (but played by black/brown/Asian) and happen to rap. There's great novelty to it. Due to its style and race politics, it speaking of monirity Americans, it brought in a slice of society and public that would never be into musicals. None of these elements will contribute to its overseas success necessarily, but its overseas success will depend on the great publicity and reputation it has already earned for itself. Dear Evan Hansen speaks to a very specific audience I think. There are only eight characters in the show, all of them happen to be suburbanites, middle-class and white (with exception to Alana, who was always white in previous versions but I guess it dawned on them that they are exposing themselves to criticism..and so she's a black girl in the Broadway version). In this age of inclusivity and diversity, DEH is yet another story about white teenage angst in the age of social media. I'm not underestimating the harsh reality of mental illness and isolation, but there are children who are in ACTUAL danger and under threat, whereas Evan's harsh reality is created by himself. If you look at the profile of the cult fan following its starting to develop..white teenage kids and their folks. Hamilton's outreach to young people is by far more powerful, as they try to engage kids from inner city schools who would not even think of seeing a show like this, let alone see bodies and faces similar to theirs act in a massive spectacle. On a technical side, there's a lot more to say about the innovation in staging in Hamilton, the genius-level writing, superior direction and choreography, lighting, staging and everything that has more artistic merit in every imaginable way over DEH. It's really down to what the market wants. DEH will continue doing well, but it hasn't got any mass appeal (really, I doubt anyone outside of New York or anyone who isn't into musicals/theatre knows what it is..Hamilton on the other hand..). Also, if you recall there was a much better show a few years ago called Next to Normal, which is more or less on the same wavelength of DEH, but better. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 16:56:12 GMT
BRAVO ali973. Couldn't have said it better myself.
As I said in the Tonys thread, Dear Evan Hansen is no Hamilton in terms of quality or even of hype. The ratings were down 31% this year with no Hamilton involved. Broadway shows like Hamilton that impact public consciousness very, very quickly come along every 20 years not every year. I'd say Oklahoma -> A Chorus Line -> Rent -> Hamilton.
As I've mentioned before, I really think Ben Platt is 90% of the reason behind any hype in NYC. I stood in the box office for around 20 minutes and multiple groups of people enquired about non-premium tickets but left without purchasing when they discovered there were none before November, when Ben is presumed to be leaving. With Hamilton, even when Lin was in it people were aware that the show was the star. I don't think that's the case here and I think grosses will drop dramatically once he has left, particularly as there will be new shows to focus on by then. So unless they could get Ben to come over, which as I said earlier I sincerely doubt he would, I don't see it being a huge success here at all.
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Post by danb on Jun 13, 2017 17:19:27 GMT
...and as others have mentioned before, all that needs to happen is for it to find it's own 'Charlie Stemp' or equivalent wonder boy. I'm thinking akin to the buzz Michael Ball created in 'Aspects'.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 17:20:55 GMT
...and as others have mentioned before, all that needs to happen is for it to find it's own 'Charlie Stemp' or equivalent wonder boy. I'm thinking akin to the buzz Michael Ball created in 'Aspects'. Charlie Stemp is great but his raves/hype were nowhere near Ben Platt's and I can't remember the last time a young British musical theatre performer did get such acclaim. Anyone? Cynthia Erivo didn't even get the hype she did in NYC when she was in London, which is why she's staying over there where she's seeing far more success and opportunities. We just don't seem to prop up our young performers in the same way. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 19:16:42 GMT
I can see Dear Evan Hansen working over here, but I think they might need to slightly modify some of the script to make it a bit more "British". The plot itself is quite convoluted and bizarre, but its themes are pretty universal, teenage mental health and the sense of belonging and home. Sure, it's not the most groundbreaking piece of work to have explored mental health issues, that would have to be vastly superior Next to Normal, and it won't change the world in the way Rent or Hamilton did, but it does what it says on the tin, and it does that very well.
It's tough I think because we're seeing a (much needed) emergence of shows that really brake the mould in the last couple of years. Hamilton flipped everything we thought we knew about theatre on its head, creating - as has been said - an interesting look at one of the most tedious parts of American history, with a diverse cast, making Broadway and its offshoots feel more accessible to the masses. In the same season, we had Spring Awakening, which admittedly got far less recognition, but put actors with disabilities at the forefront of a previously established story and received almost universal critical acclaim for doing so, albeit on a smaller scale. This year we've had Natasha, Pierre and The Great Comet of 1812 which I don't know all that much about but really seems to be quite innovative and has got a lot of people talking.
This makes it tough for your "traditional" shows (sorry, I cringed even as I used that word) to get the same appreciation that they would have got a few years ago. Dear Evan Hansen isn't anything we haven't seen 45 times already on Broadway or in the West End, which I think also makes people less in favour of it as they can't see the Hamilton, Rent or Great Comet factor. What it is though, is a very tight and well executed combination of what we've seen before. Pasek and Paul's score is generic but catchy, and certainly their strongest creation to date. The set and costume design is relatively simplistic but effective in enhancing the telling of a poignant if slightly strange story. I agree there is a lack of diversity in the casting, this being all the more noticeable the year after the most diverse Tony Awards of all time but there's no reason this couldn't be rectified in future productions with a POC Evan and Heidi or something like that. The fact that the show consists of two families means you'd probably always have to coordinate so that each family consisted of people of the same ethnicity, or perhaps not even, it might just be me that wishes when Eva Noblezada is Eponine they didn't have a white Thenardier and Madame Thenardier.
It's easy to dismiss this show as a "white boy teen angst story" but is a great example of something we've seen a lot of times before inherently a bad thing? I'm sure someone is waiting in the wings to jump in with a "ha, that's privilege for you, being able to celebrate THE EXACT SAME STORY HAPPENING LOTS OF TIMES, other people are battling for just one story that represents them" which is fair enough and you're probably right, but it doesn't negate the fact that Dear Evan Hansen is still a great piece of fiction. If we'd given up on Wizard of Oz based stories after the first few, we might not have had The Wiz, or Wicked so don't let this be your reason for disliking the show.
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Post by viserys on Jun 13, 2017 19:35:14 GMT
It's easy to dismiss this show as a "white boy teen angst story" but a great example of something we've seen a lot of times before become inherently a bad thing? I think where Evan Hansen fails for me is to make that particular leap from "being for a target group" (white suburban teens) to "having general appeal". I'm not sure how to explain that. But to use Hamilton as an example: I am a bland white middle European woman with no history of immigration and I'm quite comfortably off job-wise and money-wise. So the whole "penniless immigrant with a dream" angle doesn't DIRECTLY appeal to me. But Hamilton's story still grips me and I get completely drawn in by these young men and their dream of an independent country and getting things done (and how this refects today's immigration story). Another non-theatre example: I just binge-watched the new season of OITNB, which is one of my all-time favorite shows ever. And while the lives of the black girls or Latina girls are really rather alien to me, I care about them and their fates and their concerns very much. And to move to the subject of mental health, I also cared a lot about Christopher in "Curious Incident", if you want to use that as a benchmark, but I feel Christopher had much bigger obstacles to overcome than Evan Hansen. The writers just don't manage to make me REALLY care for him. All I see is a well-off white suburban boy with some issues, who constructs a huge heap of BS and gets entangled in his own web of deception. I hear songs like "Waving through a window" or "You will be found" and I know what they're trying to say, but they just don't move me. I find the music bland and the lyrics not very good. On the other side, "Playing Nancy" from Groundhog Day makes me tear up, because, despite being a RL opposite of that kind of girl, the lyrics catch their dilemma in today's world perfectly and move me. And "You will be found" in its choral style always reminds me a little of "Will I?" from Rent, which such a beautifully written and incredibly sad haunting song about living with AIDS, while "You will be found" is just... saccharine and doesn't move me at all, because it doesn't express reality. No song in that show manages - for me- to capture the incredible loneliness and sense of alienation today's world can bring - and does bring. Sure, that's just my opinion and if young people (or even older people) find something in Evan that appeals to them and moves them, that's fine with me. But I sort of agree with Ali, that as it stands now, DEH is for me the fairly unappealing tale of "yet another middle class white teenager with problems". Incidentally I feel the same about the much talked-about "13 Reasons Why" on Netflix. To be fair, I'm only two episodes in, but I'm already so bored by it all. The lead guy also reminds me A LOT of Evan Hansen, I'm sure he could easily play him too. I would agree with you martello736 that it's harder for DEH right now, when shows like Hamilton and Comet have pushed the boundaries for musical theatre and make something seen "a hundred times before" blander, but if a show is really good, it will grip me even in a traditional style as Groundhog Day has done. And it's not like I couldn't be bothered to care for "white middle-class teens" (I was one myself once!) - I think Spring Awakening is very overwrought in some of its aspects, but there are some incredibly beautiful and sad songs in it, that really move me and make me feel for those teens and their problems, even if it's something seemingly banal like Moritz' problems at school. Sorry this has been super long, but I've wanted to comment on this thread for a while and now the dam burst  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 20:09:38 GMT
I won't quote you viserys because I'm not quite sure exactly which part I'm replying to and quoting the whole thing would make this response seem a mile long  I see what you're saying and I do think the plot is odd to say the least. I think it's possible to relate to the struggles of the women on OITNB because even though I wouldn't imagine it corresponds much with anything any of us have been through, we can accept that someone else probably has been through it so we can empathise during all of the relevant moments. I don't think anyone has ever had to pretend to be best friends with a dead teenager and fashion an ever more elaborate web of lies to cover their own backside and asking us to believe it, or more importantly, care about it, is a stretch too far. This is in itself quite jarring, and maybe the reason I quite like the show is because I ignore the majority of the plot to focus on the overarching message. You Will Be Found is a moving and impactful song but it isn't helped by the utter nonsense that precedes it. I think you could have the exact same lyrics but with the hour before it filled with a slightly better written story about mental health and everyone would be crying their eyes out. Actually putting it into words, I think it's a weak book that lets the show down, which is a shame because all of the other elements of Dear Evan Hansen are very strong. The soundtrack is very catchy and admittedly I've only ever seen a bootleg of the show but Ben Platt does very well to bring all of the elements together to create something special. We care about Ben, therefore we're more willing to put aside the sheer implausibility of the narrative, and make a real effort to be invested in his story. This is almost definitely going to start a fight somewhere, so I apologise in advance (and this isn't aimed at you viserys), but I hear a lot of work dismissed as "white fiction", "a white story", "white nonsense" and things like that. Growing up, my idols included the likes of Audra McDonald, Amber Riley, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, and later on Cynthia Erivo, Tyrone Huntley, Rodney Earl Clarke, Marisha Wallace and Adrienne Warren. I as a white person, can relate to and enjoy the work of performers of different ethnicities to myself, as I'm sure anyone can, so why have we developed the notion that if there is a really really good piece of work created by or starring a white person, that a person of colour or an Asian person would be able to get nothing from it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 20:48:22 GMT
Interrupting all of your well thought out and well written posts to be silly and ask that if we're going to have a mental health musical that wont sell in London, can it at least be the really good one?
Yes I know about the rights issue. BUT COME ON. I need to see this show live again.
Also Tom Kitt must be fuming at how much 'Good For You' sounds like this.
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Post by singularsensation10 on Jun 13, 2017 21:46:23 GMT
Interrupting all of your well thought out and well written posts to be silly and ask that if we're going to have a mental health musical that wont sell in London, can it at least be the really good one? Yes I know about the rights issue. BUT COME ON. I need to see this show live again. I'm with you snutte! In response to the other posts - I thought theatre was an opportunity to see other points of view, other stories, other people. How popular is Les Mis? It's been open for years - I'm gonna hazard a guess and say that most of the people in the audience have never been a peasant in the French Revolution.... I don't think success of a show is based on how relatable a character is. I do agree with Martello - it was the book that let DEH down. I love the score, I loved the cast (and I saw it without Ben!) - but I left feeling dissatisfied and like I needed more, and it wasn't until after I'd had a chance to reflect on it that I realised the book was lacklustre. I don't think it's do with the story / plot, it's to do with the actual words said between the songs. The exchanges between the characters didn't feel strong enough considering the weight of the story. |
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Post by ali973 on Jun 14, 2017 4:18:33 GMT
Just to go on a wee bit of a tangent, but Broadway will be packed with high school musicals by 2018:
-Dear Evan Hansen
-The Prom
-Mean Girls
-17 Again
Of course not all of them might make it, but the possibility is looming.
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