Protests

[parsley1]

I hope everyone is safe and taking care

To avoid being caught up in the widespread protests

Across the UK

The tests and challenges are coming thick and fast

For the new government

I do wonder if the issues at the heart of this

Will be addressed

Or bypassed due to the white noise

[marob]

Baying mobs ranting about “P**is,” looting shops, burning libraries, attacking any non-whites they see… that ain’t protest.

Saw a photo of a guy, with a poppy on his jacket, proudly showing his massive swastika tattoo. The mind boggles.

But it’s the age old story of blaming all of society’s woes on small groups of immigrants, rather than the people at the top who are actually to blame.

Hopefully it’ll calm down now, as riots tend to be linked to heatwaves, and the police can spend their time catching up with the idiots.

[Jan]

Aug 4, 2024 16:50:52 GMT marob said:

Saw a photo of a guy, with a poppy on his jacket, proudly showing his massive swastika tattoo. The mind boggles.

There have been swastika banners at the Gaza marches too. The mind boggles. 

[Rory]

It's horrible. We took our kids to see Twisters last night at the cinema in Belfast and then had to do a whole detour on the motorway to get home to avoid trouble. Pathetic.

[Jan]

Aug 4, 2024 17:27:13 GMT Rory said:

It's horrible. We took our kids to see Twisters last night at the cinema in Belfast and then had to do a whole detour on the motorway to get home to avoid trouble. Pathetic.

The protests are more or less the same as have already happened in Sweden, Denmark, France, Germany and Ireland - it takes a particular sort of British exceptionalism, and a surprising lack of curiosity about what's happening in the EU, to be surprised that they have happened here too and to have not been prepared for in terms of careful government messaging to try to defuse the situation - for example Starmer's stuff about facial recognition technology (which in general has been banned by the EU Parliament, was not in his manifesto, and has not been debated in Parliament) was not an effective message - he made several other mistakes too which with care and proper advice could have been avoided without weakening his overall message. 

[SilverFox]

Firstly, I have to emphasise that I do not, in any way, condone, empathise with, or excuse, the rioters over the past few days.

BUT Starmer REALLY needs to stop saying, "I want you to know this violent mob do not represent this country, and we will bring them to justice." when NO UK government this century has achieved a 50%+ overall mandate from the electorate. NO parliament labour, tory or coalition has achieved this, cannot claim to 'represent the country', and the violence is, in part, down to the rhetoric of politicians (of all political colours) using divisive language to appeal to or encourage a particular core of voters.

Mis-information, both from social media and from authorities / governments, is rife and THIS is what needs tackling as a priority. Not wishing to sound Orwellian, but a completely independent Ministry of Truth is needed. But how?

[Jan]

Aug 4, 2024 18:59:20 GMT SilverFox said:

Firstly, I have to emphasise that I do not, in any way, condone, empathise with, or excuse, the rioters over the past few days.

BUT Starmer REALLY needs to stop saying, "I want you to know this violent mob do not represent this country, and we will bring them to justice." when NO UK government this century has achieved a 50%+ overall mandate from the electorate. NO parliament labour, tory or coalition has achieved this, cannot claim to 'represent the country', and the violence is, in part, down to the rhetoric of politicians (of all political colours) using divisive language to appeal to or encourage a particular core of voters.

Mis-information, both from social media and from authorities / governments, is rife and THIS is what needs tackling as a priority. Not wishing to sound Orwellian, but a completely independent Ministry of Truth is needed. But how?

Starmer’s (first) address to the nation was ill-judged. When there were BLM protests that turned into riots with police attacked he condemned that law breaking but said he sympathised with and understood the aims and concerns of the underlying protest. This time he only condemned the law breaking - he didn’t address the underlying protest - he could have said he understood people were concerned and wanted to stop the boats and reduce net immigration but both goals would take time given the mess he inherited but he heard the concerns, in the meantime he was going to come down hard on the law breakers. He could easily have said that because those are literally Labour policies with stopping the boats actually in his manifesto. Instead he said none of that but gave the impression he regarded everyone involved as “far right”. It was a mistake and the Two Tier Keir tag will stick.

[Phantom of London]

To be honest the rioters are nasty ultra right wingers, not very intelligent and that is why they’re susceptible to be influenced by Russian actors on social media.

[danb]

Perhaps he didn’t feel that it was a time for nuanced liberalism. Perhaps he thought it best to call the far right racists what they were, and that he would do what he could to dissuade folks from behaving like that. Hopefully the widely shared video of the waste of carbon woman comfortable with spewing out the word ‘P@ki’ over & over, being arrested might change one persons mind about effective & lawful protest.

[Jan]

Aug 4, 2024 19:45:06 GMT danb said:

Perhaps he didn’t feel that it was a time for nuanced liberalism. Perhaps he thought it best to call the far right racists what they were, and that he would do what he could to dissuade folks from behaving like that. Hopefully the widely shared video of the waste of carbon woman comfortable spewing out the word ‘P@ki’ over & over, being arrested might change one persons mind about effective & lawful protest.

I see he’s just doubled-down on his comments so let’s see if that makes things better or worse. His approval rating is down 16% in the last two weeks, I think a more accomplished politician like Blair would have handled this specific issue better - I’m surprised he isn’t advising Starmer.

[parsley1]

I will be interested to see how Labour policy

Reflects on the picture of migration in the coming years
The issues are complex no doubt

But the response should not be violent racist protests

NOR should it be a smokescreen or entirely ignoring the issues as per the last UK government and in the way I suspect the new one will also do

[Phantom of London]

It is great to see Crime Commissioners leading from the front.

[danb]

Aug 4, 2024 20:12:33 GMT Jan said:

Aug 4, 2024 19:45:06 GMT danb said:

Perhaps he didn’t feel that it was a time for nuanced liberalism. Perhaps he thought it best to call the far right racists what they were, and that he would do what he could to dissuade folks from behaving like that. Hopefully the widely shared video of the waste of carbon woman comfortable spewing out the word ‘P@ki’ over & over, being arrested might change one persons mind about effective & lawful protest.

I see he’s just doubled-down on his comments so let’s see if that makes things better or worse. His approval rating is down 16% in the last two weeks, I think a more accomplished politician like Blair would have handled this specific issue better - I’m surprised he isn’t advising Starmer.

He’s weeks into his premiership. He has 14 years of incompetence to try to repair with tuppence and new ideas.

[hannechalk]

I walked through the centre of Liverpool as the dispersal order was in place after the protests in the afternoon, and just before it all kicked off again.

I had to walk 40 minutes with a suitcase to the edge of central Liverpool where it was a safe point for buses to pick up their services again (Arriva and StageCoach pulled their services from the two main bus stations in the centre).

The atmosphere was grim - police everywhere, on foot, on horse, with dogs, riot vans, helicopter overhead. People trying to goad the (police on) horses. As many people were leaving the centre on foot, lots of teenagers headed into town giddy with excitement that they might pick up some action.

Many of the rioters had their faces covered - if you're really passionate about a cause you show your face. It wasn't about those poor girls in Southport, or boats, or Muslims - it was a thirst for violence and destruction.

Where were the protests in Liverpool when 10-year old Olivia and 28-year old Ashley died after being shot by white people? Oh no, you'd be seen as a grass, can't have that! Poor Ashley's own boyfriend refused to cooperate with the police (the gunman was after him), making their jobs difficult - no protests against that.

Thankfully the vast majority of people in Liverpool, or the UK, are decent and kind people. Let's hope that trumps this violent minority.

[aspieandy]

At least Starmer knows exactly how long he has to 'smash the gangs', as does Macron and the EU (who, incidentally, are increasingly in their own leaky, vulnerable boat, together). It is finite, fixed and certain. One Parliament.

If he doesn't get a grip - or can't because of policy across the channel - the make-up of the next Parliament will be different indeed.

Events, not just in the UK, are moving very, very fast.

[danb]

Quite. It’s line in the sand time, and he’s lucky to be able to draw it without a litany of cock-ups or back-handers in his wake.

[alece10]

Tonight's performance of The Devil Wears Prada in Plymouth cancelled due to planned protests in the city centre.

[n1david]

The Devil Wears a Balaclava.

[capybara]

These aren’t protests. They’re barely even riots. It’s domestic terrorism being carried out by white supremacists.

Shameful.

[crabtree]

and what is the mindset of a parent who takes young children to participate or watch the riots?

[Jan]

The Gaza crowd turned up to hassle the audience for Fiddler on the Roof in Regent's Park yesterday.

[Jan]

Aug 4, 2024 20:48:07 GMT danb said:

Aug 4, 2024 20:12:33 GMT Jan said:

I see he’s just doubled-down on his comments so let’s see if that makes things better or worse. His approval rating is down 16% in the last two weeks, I think a more accomplished politician like Blair would have handled this specific issue better - I’m surprised he isn’t advising Starmer.

He’s weeks into his premiership. He has 14 years of incompetence to try to repair with tuppence and new ideas.

So we have the answer. He made things worse. What he's doing, his actions, aren't the problem. It's what he's saying and the way he's framing things that is. He either lacks the skill or the advice to present things in such a way that it deescalates the problem. I mean just on a side issue in that first address to the nation why mention bringing in facial recognition technology as a response ? Immediately he alienates the civil liberties supporters who are numerous and span the political spectrum and it's even banned in the EU. Why even mention it ? Why fight that battle ? He really seems disappointingly inept. 

[Jan]

Aug 5, 2024 15:09:18 GMT aspieandy said:

At least Starmer knows exactly how long he has to 'smash the gangs', as does Macron and the EU (who, incidentally, are increasingly in their own leaky, vulnerable boat, together). It is finite, fixed and certain. One Parliament.

If he doesn't get a grip - or can't because of policy across the channel - the make-up of the next Parliament will be different indeed.

Events, not just in the UK, are moving very, very fast.

Versions of the same thing are happening in Sweden, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland etc. etc. although people seem to be so incurious about what's actually happening in the EU that it seems to have been a surprise to some that the same thing has happened here. 

[Someone in a tree]

Aug 6, 2024 6:25:31 GMT Jan said:

The Gaza crowd turned up to hassle the audience for Fiddler on the Roof in Regent's Park yesterday.

Pro Palestinian yobs did something similar in a Birmingham pub yesterday

[danb]

Aug 6, 2024 6:36:08 GMT Jan said:

Aug 4, 2024 20:48:07 GMT danb said:

He’s weeks into his premiership. He has 14 years of incompetence to try to repair with tuppence and new ideas.

So we have the answer. He made things worse. What he's doing, his actions, aren't the problem. It's what he's saying and the way he's framing things that is. He either lacks the skill or the advice to present things in such a way that it deescalates the problem. I mean just on a side issue in that first address to the nation why mention bringing in facial recognition technology as a response ? Immediately he alienates the civil liberties supporters who are numerous and span the political spectrum and it's even banned in the EU. Why even mention it ? Why fight that battle ? He really seems disappointingly inept. 

Intrigued to know what you would do differently if it were you? There is a massive issue to address and the answers seem few & far between. The far right have seen an opportunity to attack, and are testing the waters to see how far they can go. The easily manipulated are triggered by the ‘right’ buttons that they press and voila they get the scenes they need to put Starmer in a difficult position. Do what they would do if it were a load of ‘lefties’ causing trouble (water cannons, rubber bullets, civil right removal etc) or just let it play out?