Protests

[aspieandy]

Although the points-based (managed) system for immigration and working/student visas appears to be broadly working, 8 years after the referendum, the borders are still not secure.

That must be a failure of the Tories first, but has also made Macron and his friends in the EU very pleased with themslves.

Might be as well to look at the root causes first rather than tools of frustration and anger.

[hannechalk]

A list of 34 places which are apparently targeted tonight has been uncovered - I say get the army in to help out the emergency services, and keep people safe.

[danb]

If Starmer wants to look like he means business, the forces seem like the best idea. It would take pressure off the police (who have been thrown under the bus again for doing their job) and further cement his position as ‘double hard’.

[theglenbucklaird]

Aug 7, 2024 9:53:53 GMT aspieandy said:

Although the points-based (managed) system for immigration and working/student visas appears to be broadly working, 8 years after the referendum, the borders are still not secure.

That must be a failure of the Tories first, but has also made Macron and his friends in the EU very pleased with themslves.

Might be as well to look at the root causes first rather than tools of frustration and anger.

What does the borders are still not secure mean? Is it even possible?

[Someone in a tree]

Its hard to justify a digital medium that gives a platform to Tommy many names and a convicted criminal & suspected human trafficker

[SilverFox]

Aug 7, 2024 10:38:28 GMT Someone in a tree said:

Its hard to justify a digital medium that gives a platform to Tommy many names and a convicted criminal & suspected human trafficker

I cannot disagree with that (in relation to Laxley-Lennon), but where do you draw the line with disinformation, let alone the more rife misinformation?

Boris / Starmer / Farage .....

And who decides?

[Phantom of London]

Aug 7, 2024 9:26:59 GMT oxfordsimon said:

Sorry but the idea they you should shut down all social media is authoritarianism gone too far.

It is repressive and regressive. It would only fuel the frustration and anger that feeds violence.

I didn't say 'all' but when it is being used to organise riots, well there is a very good case.

[oxfordsimon]

"Whilst a risk of rioting is at large - Twitter, Telegram, Instagram etc should be taken down"

Sorry but you did advocate for shutting down social media. The "etc" is, to my mind, a catch all term.

What you propose is what happens in repressive regimes round the globe.

And I will continue to believe that is not something we should ever seek to emulate.

[danb]

Aug 7, 2024 11:19:14 GMT oxfordsimon said:

"Whilst a risk of rioting is at large - Twitter, Telegram, Instagram etc should be taken down"

Sorry but you did advocate for shutting down social media. The "etc" is, to my mind, a catch all term.

What you propose is what happens in repressive regimes round the globe.

And I will continue to believe that is not something we should ever seek to emulate.

Agreed. I suspect that there are already many horrific dark web groups that these people already use. Driving mainstream social media underground would have zero effect.

[crowblack]

Aug 7, 2024 11:39:12 GMT danb said:

I suspect that there are already many horrific dark web groups that these people already use. Driving mainstream social media underground would have zero effect.

I share C. S. Lewis' attitude - "if there's a wasp in the room I like to be able to see it". I do think social media in general has completely screwed up and unhinged society to an astonishing degree, but like guns and atomic bombs, it can't be uninvented. I was unaware until fairly recently that online games were used as chat / contact platforms, for example. Seeing the way young relatives spend hours and hours a day immersed in that virtual world, I find it particularly worrying. We don't have the equivalent of 'Charlie says' warning these children about stranger danger of all types.  

[zahidf]

Next time Musk is in the UK, arrest him for incitement

Hell, get him extradited from the US and arrest him asap

[danb]

Aug 7, 2024 11:45:23 GMT crowblack said:

Aug 7, 2024 11:39:12 GMT danb said:

I suspect that there are already many horrific dark web groups that these people already use. Driving mainstream social media underground would have zero effect.

I share C. S. Lewis' attitude - "if there's a wasp in the room I like to be able to see it".

It’s why I have the Daily Mail app on my phone 😂

[crowblack]

Aug 6, 2024 12:52:48 GMT aspieandy said:

There is definitely anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist sentiment. I'd be surprised at anti-Semitism given the Jewish blocs also on these marches. They seem to see the enemy only as (radical) Zionism.

A bunch of them invaded the foyer of the Regent's Park theatre where Fiddler on the Roof is playing, to stage a protest. About what, there, in that location? It has nothing to do with Gaza, Hamas or the Israeli govt policy. It's a play whose characters are Jewish - that's enough to make these 'protestors' target the venue. It's anti-semitism. Now they've gone and targeted a children's science show in another theatre, this time in Wimbledon - this is a week after someone burst into a children's dance class to murder children and with memories of Bataclan and Ariana Grande in our minds - it must have been terrifying for these families when the disturbance happened.

[Phantom of London]

Aug 7, 2024 11:19:14 GMT oxfordsimon said:

"Whilst a risk of rioting is at large - Twitter, Telegram, Instagram etc should be taken down"

Sorry but you did advocate for shutting down social media. The "etc" is, to my mind, a catch all term.

What you propose is what happens in repressive regimes round the globe.

And I will continue to believe that is not something we should ever seek to emulate.

Catch all term that uses social media to spread false hate speech then yes. As I said to live in a free society comes with responsibilities, I would love to see someone such as Andrew Tate & Tommy Robinson, I would go down the line with. Its not right they should make money from hate speech.

I couldn't justify banning Nigel Farage yet.

I wouldn't ban Theatreboard as it doesn't advocate hate speech.

Social Media which is spreading false hate speech should be taken offline whilst this situation is escalating. The thread to take a social media offline unless they clampdown on hate speech, as I say as recommended by a commission should happen.

Maybe you have a better solution to social media take responsibilities for their actions? 

***Breaking News*** There is now expected to be over 100 demonstrations tonight, that is a potential for over a 100 riots.

[Someone in a tree]

Aug 7, 2024 10:51:09 GMT SilverFox said:

Aug 7, 2024 10:38:28 GMT Someone in a tree said:

Its hard to justify a digital medium that gives a platform to Tommy many names and a convicted criminal & suspected human trafficker

I cannot disagree with that (in relation to Laxley-Lennon), but where do you draw the line with disinformation, let alone the more rife misinformation?

Boris / Starmer / Farage .....

And who decides?

Goodpoint, for news, it would be something regulated.

In addition, i know its easy for me not to use X. As reported in todays Indy, you can Tommy many names junk on Amazon. i havent used it in years and so i can happily carry on doing so

[aspieandy]

Aug 7, 2024 12:11:16 GMT crowblack said:

Aug 6, 2024 12:52:48 GMT aspieandy said:

There is definitely anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist sentiment. I'd be surprised at anti-Semitism given the Jewish blocs also on these marches. They seem to see the enemy only as (radical) Zionism.

A bunch of them invaded the foyer of the Regent's Park theatre where Fiddler on the Roof is playing, to stage a protest. About what, there, in that location? It has nothing to do with Gaza, Hamas or the Israeli govt policy. It's a play whose characters are Jewish - that's enough to make these 'protestors' target the venue. It's anti-semitism. Now they've gone and targeted a children's science show in another theatre, this time in Wimbledon - this is a week after someone burst into a children's dance class to murder children and with memories of Bataclan and Ariana Grande in our minds - it must have been terrifying for these families when the disturbance happened.

LOL. I wasn't at Regent's Park or Wimbledon, and nor were you.

I related what I saw and experienced on Piccadilly and surrounds, whch was a legal demonstration, coordinated with the police and local authority.

These demonstrations are 100,000 to250,000, and none of them are marching about Fiddler on the Roof. They just want a ceasefire.

[aspieandy]

Fascinating times, though. Until now, I have only ever seen a certain type of Telegraph reader demand the army be deployed on the streets of Britian.

In the same terms, it now appears to be not 'Angry of Tonbridge Wells' but 'hand-wringing liberals'.

Very interesting stuff.

Starmer is merely trying to hold the centre together. Cack-handed as he is (and advised).

[oxfordsimon]

Aug 7, 2024 12:14:23 GMT Phantom of London said:

Aug 7, 2024 11:19:14 GMT oxfordsimon said:

"Whilst a risk of rioting is at large - Twitter, Telegram, Instagram etc should be taken down"

Sorry but you did advocate for shutting down social media. The "etc" is, to my mind, a catch all term.

What you propose is what happens in repressive regimes round the globe.

And I will continue to believe that is not something we should ever seek to emulate.

Catch all term that uses social media to spread false hate speech then yes. As I said to live in a free society comes with responsibilities, I would love to see someone such as Andrew Tate & Tommy Robinson, I would go down the line with. Its not right they should make money from hate speech.

I couldn't justify banning Nigel Farage yet.

I wouldn't ban Theatreboard as it doesn't advocate hate speech.

Social Media which is spreading false hate speech should be taken offline whilst this situation is escalating. The thread to take a social media offline unless they clampdown on hate speech, as I say as recommended by a commission should happen.

Maybe you have a better solution to social media take responsibilities for their actions? 

***Breaking News*** There is now expected to be over 100 demonstrations tonight, that is a potential for over a 100 riots.

Would the authorities know about the demonstrations without social media? Almost certainly not.

And social media providers cannot realistically be held fully responsible for what users choose to post and share. Thay has, ultimately, be the responsibility of the people who make those posts.

So if I were to have a solution, then requiring people to prove their identity when joining a social media platform may be a route to consider. That way you make it much harder for people to hide their identity and thus easier to track down malefactors.

But the responsibility for making illegal posts rests with the individual not the platform.

[maggiem]

Hi
Yesterday, there were reports of anti-social activity planned for around the Salford Precinct area. As a result, the uni closed early and we were all ordered to go home. There was no violence, as the police were prepared.

I just hope it's not an area where more "protest" is planned for today/ tonight!

[parsley1]

Aug 7, 2024 12:11:16 GMT crowblack said:

Aug 6, 2024 12:52:48 GMT aspieandy said:

There is definitely anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist sentiment. I'd be surprised at anti-Semitism given the Jewish blocs also on these marches. They seem to see the enemy only as (radical) Zionism.

A bunch of them invaded the foyer of the Regent's Park theatre where Fiddler on the Roof is playing, to stage a protest. About what, there, in that location? It has nothing to do with Gaza, Hamas or the Israeli govt policy. It's a play whose characters are Jewish - that's enough to make these 'protestors' target the venue. It's anti-semitism. Now they've gone and targeted a children's science show in another theatre, this time in Wimbledon - this is a week after someone burst into a children's dance class to murder children and with memories of Bataclan and Ariana Grande in our minds - it must have been terrifying for these families when the disturbance happened.

I agree and targeting a children’s show is entirely inappropriate

The particular irony with the pro Palestine protests

Is that they are in direct contradiction with our overall government and political stance with respect to the the conflict going on

I wonder if the protestors outlined that to the children

Varying definitions and exceptions and blind eyes are made wherever and whenever people want them

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/uk-police-arrest-two-pro-palestine-activists-under-organised-laws

[punxsutawney]

Aug 7, 2024 14:26:12 GMT parsley1 said:

The particular irony with the pro Palestine protests

Is that they are in direct contradiction with our overall government and political stance with respect to the the conflict going on

What is ironic about this, exactly?

[BurlyBeaR]

Posts and responses removed. 
Please focus your opinions on the subject matter and not other members. 
Thank you. 

[crowblack]

Aug 7, 2024 12:26:06 GMT aspieandy said:

LOL.

Hilarious.

[mkb]

Aug 7, 2024 12:11:16 GMT crowblack said:

A bunch of them invaded the foyer of the Regent's Park theatre where Fiddler on the Roof is playing, to stage a protest. ...

Do you actually have any evidence for this or is this a case of spreading misinformation without checking?

Last time I went, the theatre did not even have a foyer, and a journalist for the Independent quoted a spokesperson for Regent’s Park Open Air Theatre as saying: “The videos that emerged on social media were exchanges that did not take place at Regent’s Park Open Air Theatre. Last night’s performance went ahead as planned.”

Happy to correct/update if there is some evidence of what is alleged.

[mkb]

Aug 6, 2024 20:15:38 GMT Latecomer said:

I have deleted Twitter (X) as I cannot now stomach being on a forum which amplifies misinformation and helps cause this unrest. Probably should have left some time ago, but I like all the quirky stuff on there, and also knowing news you don’t see on MSM, and it is addictive, but I will not support Musk.

I am less concerned with extreme-but-legal views being expressed on X than I am with the vast amount of false, misleading or out-of-context claims, that are then amplified by algorithms and the gullible who love having their prejudices apparently confirmed.

Take this afternoon: the DPP rightly said in an interview with Sky News that retweeting illegal content was the same offence as publishing it in the first place. Within minutes, a plethora of X accounts -- most of those I looked at were clearly fake -- were spreading the false claim that the Labour government wanted to lock you up for sharing video footage of riots.

In my home town tonight, there is a risk of rioting because an extremist X account tweeted that muslims were already out on the streets with machetes and acid. Despite lots of people posting that they'd walked through the town and nothing was happening, people could not help themselves but spread the malicious information. The result is that, even if no rioters show up, there are police everywhere, shops boarded up and closed early, and evening entertainment cancelled. The costs to struggling local businesses do not bear thinking about.

I haven't deleted X yet, but, as well as continuing to block all advertisers (when possible), if they are UK-based, I am emailing them to tell them that I will not do business with any funding X while it does not police content effectively.

Even the hardcore porn on X, that used to be difficult to stumble across by accident, regularly now pops up in reasonable searches. Quite why their algorithm thinks I have any interest in naked women getting rogered, is a good question given my sexuality.

I am also served loads of adverts not in English, or trading only in markets outside the UK or for products that anyone who knew my browsing history would know I had no interest in. Elon is taking his advertisers for mugs if they are paying for this.