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Post by missthelma on Aug 27, 2019 10:03:36 GMT
It saddens me that people think William Finn would allow a company to stage this classic if he didn’t think it was in safe hands Plus so may people jumping on band wagons when not really even knowing the show and it’s history I for one am so looking forward to it and believe it’s in very safe hands From the beginning of this saga I have wondered about what seems to be the erasure of the creators of this piece William Finn and James Lapine who are both alive, well and presumably able to engage in discourse about their work. I assumed (and I know we should never assume ) that rather like Sondheim being here for Company and Jason Robert Brown for Bridges that they would be present for some or all of the process. Even if they are not physically present they can Skype, FaceTime etc etc, or be contacted fairly easily.
If they are around and involved, does that 'solve' this? And if they're not, why the f*** aren't they and doesn't that bolster the case of the letter writers 100%?
People seem to be missing the point of how much representation matters, and how important it is to have someone around who can say 'no' to an idea that is unacceptable. Also how difficult that no can be if you are a lone voice. Had the initial letter stuck to that conceit it might have worked better, introducing the casting question just opened them up for (deliberate?) misinterpretation and mockery. This has meant that the far more important point has not been fully acknowledged
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Post by sf on Aug 27, 2019 10:17:26 GMT
If they are around and involved, does that 'solve' this? And if they're not, why the f*** aren't they and doesn't that bolster the case of the letter writers 100%? If they aren't around - and I've no idea whether they are, although the Selladoor statement did say they approved the casting - it may simply be because the first act premiered 38 years ago, the second act premiered 29 years ago, and they both live on the other side of the Atlantic. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 10:19:04 GMT
Have to say I am now wondering if the elephant in the room is that this whole saga is much more interesting than the actual show.
I tried (for the second time) yesterday to listen to the cast recording on Apple Music and failed (again) to get through it as found it so dull. Not a hummable melody in sight!
Now I know nothing of the story - though from the music I was getting waves of American angst, a bit like Fun Home and Next To Normal - and don't doubt that perhaps live it all comes together and is a passable evening.
But yet another musical, where the music isn't the soaring star - makes me sad!
Quite clearly though, this is niche and would not succeed on the West End.
(A quick look at the seating plans it also isn't selling that well - perhaps the 'letter' was actually written by The Other Palace to boost interest. I jest of course..... #conspiracytheory)
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Post by sf on Aug 27, 2019 11:04:02 GMT
Not a hummable melody in sight! Four Jews In A Room Bitching Thrill of First Love I'm Breaking Down The Games I Play I Never Wanted To Love You Father To Son Welcome To Falsettoland What More Can I Say? Unlikely Lovers You Gotta Die Sometime What Would I Do? - all of them music I've been humming for the better part of thirty years. It's an idiosyncratic score, but - to me - there's plenty of memorable music in it. |
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Post by xanady on Aug 27, 2019 11:31:40 GMT
Agree with sf,it is a very memorable score...me and the fam are booked for this Friday...really hope it succeeds and sending big love to the cast/creatives and Selladoor who are trying so hard to promote lesser known works such as Amélie and Little Miss Sunshine as well as more populist fare such as Fame.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 11:39:28 GMT
Indeed, I hear you; could have done with an IMHO when I said it wasn't hummable/memorable as of course it's all subjective.
But it certainly isn't mainstream and I can understand why it has taken so long to make it to the UK.
The one thing that DOES tempt me to see it however is the cast, who's MT calibre no-one could deny.
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Post by jgblunners on Aug 27, 2019 11:53:41 GMT
Indeed, I hear you; could have done with an IMHO when I said it wasn't hummable/memorable as of course it's all subjective. But it certainly isn't mainstream and I can understand why it has taken so long to make it to the UK. The one thing that DOES tempt me to see it however is the cast, who's MT calibre no-one could deny. I think this score sits with Sondheim in that it all falls into place when you actually watch the show. The new Broadway cast recording is excellent but I could only stand a couple of tracks from it until I saw the show (via one of *those* recordings) - now I have many songs and sections of the show that I enjoy listening to because I know the context. Act Two contains a beautiful quartet but unfortunately it's a pretty spoilerific song so I won't recommend listening to it if you don't already know the plot of the show. |
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Post by kathryn on Aug 27, 2019 18:47:50 GMT
If they are around and involved, does that 'solve' this? And if they're not, why the f*** aren't they and doesn't that bolster the case of the letter writers 100%? If they aren't around - and I've no idea whether they are, although the Selladoor statement did say they approved the casting - it may simply be because the first act premiered 38 years ago, the second act premiered 29 years ago, and they both live on the other side of the Atlantic. The letter writers may well have a valid point about Jewish representation in general, but this production is an odd choice to make a stand about for precisely this reason. It’s old enough that - bar a radical re-imagining (which I don’t believe the producers have a track record of) - how the characters are represented in the production, and how they should be performed, is going to be pretty set, at least in broad terms. The original Jewish creators are still alive and would presumably have withdrawn the rights if they had a problem with the approach the production is taking. One of the reasons why it does look like they are focused on casting more than anything else is that - in advance of the production actually being seen by anyone - there’s nothing else *to* focus on. Casting is the only part of the process that is publicised before a show opens. I did run across this tweet exchange from before the start of rehearsals: This suggests that the use of shoes on the poster was seen as an insensitive holocaust reference, which may go some way to explaining the concern. Clearly the producers could have been far more proactive in assessing concerns publicly prior to the start of the rehearsal process. But, equally clearly, there is no way that whoever is running the Falsettos Twitter account could have answered those questions in a productive way. Their response - an invitation to an early preview and meet the creative team - was not received well. |
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Post by theatremadness on Aug 27, 2019 20:51:09 GMT
If they aren't around - and I've no idea whether they are, although the Selladoor statement did say they approved the casting - it may simply be because the first act premiered 38 years ago, the second act premiered 29 years ago, and they both live on the other side of the Atlantic. The letter writers may well have a valid point about Jewish representation in general, but this production is an odd choice to make a stand about for precisely this reason. I couldn't say for sure, but I think it's possibly because this is the UK Premiere of Falsettos as we know it, so would have been a good chance to exercise some cultural representation, which is something I am almost certain took place when the UK first saw Fiddler on The Roof, and as is being done currently for Tom Stoppard's new play Leopoldstadt. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 27, 2019 20:59:30 GMT
William Finn is heading to the UK shortly. He is certainly expected to see Little Miss Sunshine in Leicester - so I would imagine he will also touch base with Falsettos.
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Post by intoanewlife on Aug 27, 2019 21:38:28 GMT
I can't remember the last time I even thought of anything to do with Jewish people and frankly I doubt think they are on most people's radar very often either. ...and given the recent - documented - rise in anti-Semitism, that's part of the reason a public conversation about representation and identity is so necessary.  |
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Post by couldileaveyou on Aug 28, 2019 8:40:09 GMT
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Aug 28, 2019 9:09:01 GMT
I'd have had FAR more (actually 'some') respect for this person if he'd have stepped up early on in the process and inspired/created some real change instead of (as you point out) kicking a hornets nest with little to no thought for the consequences and looking like a bitter 'whiny little *****'. What a horrific, racist, dishonest series of posts. 1. It was a large group of people not one man. 2. None of them have any connection to the production so obviously short of being psychic there’s no way they could have “stepped up” prior to the public announcement. 3. They did contact the producers privately and had private conversations. 4. A group of people from an oppressed ethnic minority complaining that a play about that minority group being staged without a single person actually of that ethnicity is not “bitter and whiny.” Not sure why you felt the need to drag up Israel or the Labour Party, has neither have anything to do with this thread. Oh and “intoanewlife” I’m really curious as to why in one post you stated that you’ve been waiting “years” to see another production of Falsettos and felt the letter had “tarnished” your long-awaited chance to see it again, yet in another post you claimed to be completely unfamiliar with Falsettos and that you didn’t have the slightest clue what the musical is about until the scandal? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Oh and welcome to the board. Always great when brand new posters get really stuck in like that. |
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Post by sf on Aug 28, 2019 13:25:20 GMT
...and given the recent - documented - rise in anti-Semitism, that's part of the reason a public conversation about representation and identity is so necessary. I'm old. I remember when people in online discussions constructed arguments to back up their point. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Aug 28, 2019 19:07:42 GMT
I'd have had FAR more (actually 'some') respect for this person if he'd have stepped up early on in the process and inspired/created some real change instead of (as you point out) kicking a hornets nest with little to no thought for the consequences and looking like a bitter 'whiny little *****'. What a horrific, racist, dishonest series of posts. 1. It was a large group of people not one man. 2. None of them have any connection to the production so obviously short of being psychic there’s no way they could have “stepped up” prior to the public announcement. 3. They did contact the producers privately and had private conversations. 4. A group of people from an oppressed ethnic minority complaining that a play about that minority group being staged without a single person actually of that ethnicity is not “bitter and whiny.” Not sure why you felt the need to drag up Israel or the Labour Party, has neither have anything to do with this thread. Oh and “intoanewlife” I’m really curious as to why in one post you stated that you’ve been waiting “years” to see another production of Falsettos and felt the letter had “tarnished” your long-awaited chance to see it again, yet in another post you claimed to be completely unfamiliar with Falsettos and that you didn’t have the slightest clue what the musical is about until the scandal? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Oh and welcome to the board. Always great when brand new posters get really stuck in like that. I'm not racist or dishonest, I can be pretty horrific after a few drinks though and if I eat too much and don't exercise. 1-4 I'm bored of already and have said all I have to say on the matter. Others brought up Labour and considering most of the fingers pointing at them is because of his/their stance on Israel, I threw in a bit of Israel for good measure. I missed the recent Broadway production, I couldn't fit it in to my busy schedule so I was disappointed. I didn't have a full grasp of what it was about other than a lot of people were raving about it. I tend to go into most things I see totally blind, I do the same with movies. No trailers for me, weirdo I know. I thought it was a musical about the gheys, as I said I had no idea they were Jewish the gheys and I like Andrew Whatshisface who was in the Broadway production. Unfortunately it closed in between trips. Thank you, I look forward to you calling me names again in the future. Love and light x |
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Post by lonlad on Aug 28, 2019 22:40:47 GMT
the "gheys"  |
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Post by intoanewlife on Aug 28, 2019 23:03:44 GMT
the "gheys" Gheys = classy gays x |
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Aug 29, 2019 6:37:27 GMT
Director Steven Dexter’s tweet about Jewish actors wearing yellow stars and tattooing their Spotlight number on their arms is disgraceful.
And isn’t it interesting how many brand new anonymous Twitter accounts (with zero followers, zero following, no profile photo, no name, display name things like “Jewish Theatremaker”) have sprung up to defend Steven Dexter and attack the letter signers? Some accounts have only ever sent one tweet, defending Steven Dexter, and somehow he’s finding and liking those tweets despite not being @ into them.
Oh and ^^, calling a post (not a person) “racist” is an opinion, not “name calling.” Bit rich coming from someone who posted calling Adam “bitter and whiny” among other things.
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Post by sf on Aug 29, 2019 9:34:02 GMT
I'm not racist or dishonest That, I'm afraid, is not entirely for you to judge. People are free to draw their own conclusions based on the evidence you've given them. |
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Post by latefortheoverture on Aug 29, 2019 11:26:56 GMT
Sorry to be so behind, I'm a little confused.
I get that a group of Jewish people within the arts wrote a letter. Did it not say they wished more Jewish voices were involced in Jewish stories? Which is a completely fair point, but was it directly aimed at Falsettos or the industry as a whole?
Why all this backlash?
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Post by sf on Aug 29, 2019 11:39:51 GMT
Sorry to be so behind, I'm a little confused. I get that a group of Jewish people within the arts wrote a letter. Did it not say they wished more Jewish voices were involced in Jewish stories? Which is a completely fair point, but was it directly aimed at Falsettos or the industry as a whole? Why all this backlash?
Because some people, bizarrely, seem to feel threatened when members of minority groups assert themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 11:51:04 GMT
I'm not racist or dishonest That, I'm afraid, is not entirely for you to judge. People are free to draw their own conclusions based on the evidence you've given them. People should probably also bear in mind legal action can be taken if they libel (or slander) another person as a result. The burden of proof being on the person making the libellous/slanderous remark, so they’d better be very sure they can back up their own judgement. |
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Post by amp09 on Aug 29, 2019 12:18:45 GMT
Come on everyone, we’re all here for a love of theatre. It’s not nice to read accusations being thrown around to the point that libel and slander are being mentioned. Emotions are high over this, but I do feel the discussion has gone a bit too far, and got too personal. Let’s all move on.
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Post by robertb213 on Aug 29, 2019 14:07:40 GMT
^^ Agreed. Looking forward to hearing the verdicts from tomorrow's first preview 😀
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Aug 29, 2019 16:40:15 GMT
That, I'm afraid, is not entirely for you to judge. People are free to draw their own conclusions based on the evidence you've given them. People should probably also bear in mind legal action can be taken if they libel (or slander) another person as a result. The burden of proof being on the person making the libellous/slanderous remark, so they’d better be very sure they can back up their own judgement. Opinions are not libellous and I was very careful to say “the post is racist and dishonest” not “the person is racist and dishonest.” The posts in question (namely the allegation that the signatories went to the press without substantial private conversations with the producers first) were not factually accurate. If anyone’s getting sued for libel it’s not me. |
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