|
|
Post by cezbear on Jul 8, 2023 21:59:38 GMT
Yet again we've got a one star rating but nothing to substantiate it... A review with some detail would be super helpful. It's not me! I'm mid writing my proper post and pondering my rating. |
|
|
|
Post by cezbear on Jul 8, 2023 22:21:19 GMT
Ok, I'll get my thoughts down while they're fresh. Keep in mind I'm very attached to the original staging and so will be biased but I've tried to be fair.
The opening has a guy (possibly meant to be older Tam?) walk towards the TV, then the little Tam runs around and it fades into the proper opening. Seemed unnecessary but harmless.
The bar scene was very underwhelming... The girls costumes looked quite cheap and were obviously chosen to cover up more than in traditional productions. Gigi had a crop top and shorts for example. The girls don't really dance around or interact as much with the soldiers, so the energy is all coming from the guys and the girls were just there. Obviously deliberately toned down but it loses a lot for it.
Kim no longer says her age (which is funny as Jessica is the first I've seen in a while to look passably 17). It's now John who 'likes it rough' as the engineer defends Gigi.
Other sanitised bits are various lyric changes to change whore to girl, etc. No gunshot for Thuy and he doesn't fall down so it's not clear he's dead.
I Still Believe is staged with Ellen and Chris in a supermarket which is a bit weird.
There's no entr'acte which was disappointing.
Bui Doi staging was inspired IMO, it starts with John singing in some kind of group therapy, then moves to him handing out leaflets on the street, finishing up with him presenting to a group as per the original staging.
There's no helicopter beyond a shadow projection but they go up the staircase and then Chris exits via a rope ladder into the roof as Kim reaches the top and they reach for each other. I found that quite moving.
Ellen's song is still Maybe and the god awful stilted dialogue before it is gone.
The American Dream has Joanna dressed as Marilyn Monroe and it worked fairly well. Her voice was sensational at the end of this and it got a big response.
Finale had Kim singing her last lines as a ghost while Chris seemed to be sobbing over an invisible dead body, but at least there was a (very quiet) gunshot so we knew something had happened.
Overall there were a few changes I thought worked well but for the most part for me and my friends it felt as though the essence had been sucked out. The minimal staging wasn't the problem, the completely ruthless santising was. It felt as though it had been directed with absolute fear of the slightest criticism. The story should be raw and brutal sometimes, this felt like a demonstration of what happens to shows when you're too scared to upset anyone.
The biggest strong point they have is the cast. Jessica is absolutely stunning as Kim. I haven't liked a Kim this much in a long time (Eva left me cold I'm afraid). Wonderful and possibly worth going for her alone.
I'm going to guess now that Christian won't be popular here but I loved him so I'll get my praise in now before I'm shouted down. Age appropriate, a really good actor, he brought something new to the character and was completely believable and had great chemistry with Jessica. I had a huge smile on my face for LNOTW. He lacks power vocally though and although I found his voice gorgeous in places, I know many will be disappointed in his lack of beltiness. I wonder if he was tired vocally as he went raspy a lot in act two.
I really enjoyed the Thuy and John, and Shanay as Ellen was solid but didn't quite do it for me. I appreciated her also being cast younger though.
Lastly, Joanna. She's obviously a fantastic performer, she acted and sung the role incredibly well. But it didn't feel like the engineer and it for me felt like a clear shoehorning in places. Her character would be sensational in another show, but it doesn't sit right for me. Also the humour was almost entirely gone and it really needs that from the engineer.
I'll go with three stars I think - mostly because of the score and cast. The production isn't it for me but I'm fascinated to hear what others think!
|
|
|
|
Post by dan28 on Jul 8, 2023 23:37:21 GMT
The girls don't really dance around or interact as much with the soldiers, so the energy is all coming from the guys and the girls were just there. Obviously deliberately toned down but it loses a lot for it. Kim no longer says her age (which is funny as Jessica is the first I've seen in a while to look passably 17). It's now John who 'likes it rough' as the engineer defends Gigi. Other sanitised bits are various lyric changes to change whore to girl, etc. The minimal staging wasn't the problem, the completely ruthless santising was. It felt as though it had been directed with absolute fear of the slightest criticism. The story should be raw and brutal sometimes, this felt like a demonstration of what happens to shows when you're too scared to upset anyone. The engineer defends Gigi about the "rough" remark? Like a bond of "girl power"? The engineer should care more about money and the clients. The girls can't dance anymore? They can't show or do anything anymore that could upset someone? They can't seduce men anymore? They are only allowed to be weak victims? Weird. |
|
19,659 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 9, 2023 5:34:02 GMT
I wonder if the sanitisation was in response to the earlier criticisms directed at The Crucible or was always the director’s vision for this.
|
|
|
|
Post by cezbear on Jul 9, 2023 6:30:54 GMT
The girls don't really dance around or interact as much with the soldiers, so the energy is all coming from the guys and the girls were just there. Obviously deliberately toned down but it loses a lot for it. Kim no longer says her age (which is funny as Jessica is the first I've seen in a while to look passably 17). It's now John who 'likes it rough' as the engineer defends Gigi. Other sanitised bits are various lyric changes to change whore to girl, etc. The minimal staging wasn't the problem, the completely ruthless santising was. It felt as though it had been directed with absolute fear of the slightest criticism. The story should be raw and brutal sometimes, this felt like a demonstration of what happens to shows when you're too scared to upset anyone. The engineer defends Gigi about the "rough" remark? Like a bond of "girl power"? The engineer should care more about money and the clients. The girls can't dance anymore? They can't show or do anything anymore that could upset someone? They can't seduce men anymore? They are only allowed to be weak victims? Weird. No, I wouldn't call it a girl power thing. It plays out as usual but when Gigi flings her sash at John he no longer hits her, the engineer appears and I think she moves him away and then says 'it's ok it's John, he likes it rough'. The rest of it though, yeah... There's really no indication that the girls are selling sex. Their individual lines were very flat because they're really not doing anything. It was weird, at least for someone familiar with the show. But I think it doesn't make sense even if you're not familiar. |
|
2,242 posts
|
Post by richey on Jul 9, 2023 8:07:06 GMT
What about the Bangkok scene? Is that sanitised too?
|
|
1,380 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by BVM on Jul 9, 2023 8:47:31 GMT
Ok, I'll get my thoughts down while they're fresh. Keep in mind I'm very attached to the original staging and so will be biased but I've tried to be fair. The opening has a guy (possibly meant to be older Tam?) walk towards the TV, then the little Tam runs around and it fades into the proper opening. Seemed unnecessary but harmless. The bar scene was very underwhelming... The girls costumes looked quite cheap and were obviously chosen to cover up more than in traditional productions. Gigi had a crop top and shorts for example. The girls don't really dance around or interact as much with the soldiers, so the energy is all coming from the guys and the girls were just there. Obviously deliberately toned down but it loses a lot for it. Kim no longer says her age (which is funny as Jessica is the first I've seen in a while to look passably 17). It's now John who 'likes it rough' as the engineer defends Gigi. Other sanitised bits are various lyric changes to change whore to girl, etc. No gunshot for Thuy and he doesn't fall down so it's not clear he's dead. I Still Believe is staged with Ellen and Chris in a supermarket which is a bit weird. There's no entr'acte which was disappointing. Bui Doi staging was inspired IMO, it starts with John singing in some kind of group therapy, then moves to him handing out leaflets on the street, finishing up with him presenting to a group as per the original staging. There's no helicopter beyond a shadow projection but they go up the staircase and then Chris exits via a rope ladder into the roof as Kim reaches the top and they reach for each other. I found that quite moving. Ellen's song is still Maybe and the god awful stilted dialogue before it is gone. The American Dream has Joanna dressed as Marilyn Monroe and it worked fairly well. Her voice was sensational at the end of this and it got a big response. Finale had Kim singing her last lines as a ghost while Chris seemed to be sobbing over an invisible dead body, but at least there was a (very quiet) gunshot so we knew something had happened. Overall there were a few changes I thought worked well but for the most part for me and my friends it felt as though the essence had been sucked out. The minimal staging wasn't the problem, the completely ruthless santising was. It felt as though it had been directed with absolute fear of the slightest criticism. The story should be raw and brutal sometimes, this felt like a demonstration of what happens to shows when you're too scared to upset anyone. The biggest strong point they have is the cast. Jessica is absolutely stunning as Kim. I haven't liked a Kim this much in a long time (Eva left me cold I'm afraid). Wonderful and possibly worth going for her alone. I'm going to guess now that Christian won't be popular here but I loved him so I'll get my praise in now before I'm shouted down. Age appropriate, a really good actor, he brought something new to the character and was completely believable and had great chemistry with Jessica. I had a huge smile on my face for LNOTW. He lacks power vocally though and although I found his voice gorgeous in places, I know many will be disappointed in his lack of beltiness. I wonder if he was tired vocally as he went raspy a lot in act two. I really enjoyed the Thuy and John, and Shanay as Ellen was solid but didn't quite do it for me. I appreciated her also being cast younger though. Lastly, Joanna. She's obviously a fantastic performer, she acted and sung the role incredibly well. But it didn't feel like the engineer and it for me felt like a clear shoehorning in places. Her character would be sensational in another show, but it doesn't sit right for me. Also the humour was almost entirely gone and it really needs that from the engineer. I'll go with three stars I think - mostly because of the score and cast. The production isn't it for me but I'm fascinated to hear what others think! Thanks so much for your review Cezbear. Great to hear your thoughts and can't wait to see this for myself (strikes dependent!) Quick question - how was the orchestra and were the orchestrations same as previous or adapted/changed? If the orchestra and performers voices are top notch I can forgive most other things to be honest as this has such an epic score. I am sorry to hear it's been sanitised though - parts of it are meant to be shocking/uncomfortable. I guess it's inevitable in 2023 though sadly as people are so frightened of offending anyone and social media pile ons..... It does somewhat stifle the "arts" though. Oh, also what was the purpose of the small TV in the set? |
|
|
|
Post by cezbear on Jul 9, 2023 9:21:23 GMT
Bangkok scene also sanitised in that there wasn't anyone (male or female) dancing that I remember, though this was less glaring because the focus was on the club owners and engineer.
Orchestrations - nothing stood out to me as different other than the missing entr'acte but I'm not the best at picking up on that so hopefully someone with better ears than mine can report back. The orchestra was up high behind the silver wall but you don't see them until bows (and only the MD then).
I will say I think the direction of the performers was actually really good, in that they seemed like real people and the actors brought out things in their characters I've never seen before.
The direction of the production itself however just stifled it. This isn't the show that was written.
Edit: sorry, the TV was only used for the very opening scene where someone (older Tam??) stares at it briefly. Then in the finale Tam is watching it as Kim sings her song.
|
|
|
|
Post by hades on Jul 9, 2023 9:53:33 GMT
I've never seen Miss Saigon before so have nothing to compare it to but I absolutely loved this last night. Some of the staging choices were slightly odd but most of it worked really well for me (the way they did the helicopter was very good!). The cast are incredible and I can't fault a single person among them. Jessica and Joanna especially have incredible voices
Will be interesting to see if anything gets changed, but I'd give this 4.5 stars
|
|
|
|
Post by toomasj on Jul 9, 2023 11:49:22 GMT
I also went to see this last night.
I didn’t like any aspect of it as a production, unfortunately. It’s a confused production, and oddly lacking in soul. I’ve seen the word sanitised used above, which is absolutely spot on. It feels like it is treading on eggshells and for all the changes, I can’t think of one aspect which was actually improved from prior productions.
On the train home, I was slightly more positive than the rest of my party of four. I am not precious about updating classic shows for modern sensibilities, provided there is a clear and defined vision for the piece. This production in my view sadly fails on this and most other levels, feeling insincere and cold. Last night I was leaning more towards 2*, but having slept on it I think it’s more of a 1* production. I’ve seen some terrific new productions over the years in Sheffield (such as a superb My Fair Lady) but this is not one of them.
Finally, I’m not one for debating social politics, least of all in theatre. That said, it would be a terrible shame for theatre to lose its ambition and edge by polishing every rough edge. Not everything in theatre, as in life, needs to be glossy, saccharine and double dipped in sugar. We don’t want to get to a stage where every single moment of every production is workshopped, focus group tested and made “SFT” (Safe for Twitter) for fear of offending someone, somewhere.
Oh and the cast were fine.
|
|
594 posts
|
Post by og on Jul 9, 2023 11:50:04 GMT
sorry, the TV was only used for the very opening scene where someone (older Tam??) stares at it briefly. Then in the finale Tam is watching it as Kim sings her song. So nothing apposite like a framing device, just a prop for people to look at as they come in. Think that says enough about this translation for me. |
|
1,380 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by BVM on Jul 9, 2023 12:18:39 GMT
I also went to see this last night. I didn’t like any aspect of it as a production, unfortunately. It’s a confused production, and oddly lacking in soul. I’ve seen the word sanitised used above, which is absolutely spot on. It feels like it is treading on eggshells and for all the changes, I can’t think of one aspect which was actually improved from prior productions.
On the train home, I was slightly more positive than the rest of my party of four. I am not precious about updating classic shows for modern sensibilities, provided there is a clear and defined vision for the piece. This production in my view sadly fails on this and most other levels, feeling insincere and cold. Last night I was leaning more towards 2*, but having slept on it I think it’s more of a 1* production. I’ve seen some terrific new productions over the years in Sheffield (such as a superb My Fair Lady) but this is not one of them. Finally, I’m not one for debating social politics, least of all in theatre. That said, it would be a terrible shame for theatre to lose its ambition and edge by polishing every rough edge. Not everything in theatre, as in life, needs to be glossy, saccharine and double dipped in sugar. We don’t want to get to a stage where every single moment of every production is workshopped, focus group tested and made “SFT” (Safe for Twitter) for fear of offending someone, somewhere. Oh and the cast were fine. Thanks toomasj, another really interesting review. Similarly not remotely precious about updating but totally agree you need a clear and defined vision. Parts in bold kinda summarise how I feel about the Aspects of Love revival. This was also sanitised and there wasn't actually a single aspect improved. And it's also treading on eggshells. IMHO you need to stick to the original or really go for a creative and daring re-imagining. One doesn't simply want a watered/dumbed down original.... Anyway, of course on Saigon I'll reserve judgement until I've seen it. For Sunset I pray that it will indeed be creative and daring (given the apparent evidence it won't be like the original). Still, it's great to have all these mega musicals still being performed in some format :-) |
|
1,349 posts
|
Post by CG on the loose on Jul 9, 2023 13:35:07 GMT
I was there last night too and agree with much that has been said above about the changes. Sanitisation is a good word for them and, while I undertand the intent, for me it leaves the whole diminished. That aside, I love the score and thought this cast honoured it well - my stand out moment was Bui Doi, both staging and performance - Shane O'Riordan's voice was everything I wanted in a way that, at times, Christian Maynard's was not. I don't have a problem with a female Engineer per se and thought Joanna Ampil played the part, as now written, really well and sang it superbly, but felt she was limited and the character lessened by the changes. Both Ethan Le Phong and Jessica Lee make the most of roles that benefit from being less altered by the production choices - indeed Jessica's Kim is the only character who consistently pushed my emotional buttons. The orchestrations ... fine. The minimal set... meh, although the helicopter scene was cleverly done. Overall, 3 stars I think - and not sure I'll return later in the run as currently planned.
|
|
|
|
Post by dan28 on Jul 9, 2023 13:35:25 GMT
The engineer defends Gigi about the "rough" remark? Like a bond of "girl power"? The engineer should care more about money and the clients. The girls can't dance anymore? They can't show or do anything anymore that could upset someone? They can't seduce men anymore? They are only allowed to be weak victims? Weird. No, I wouldn't call it a girl power thing. It plays out as usual but when Gigi flings her sash at John he no longer hits her, the engineer appears and I think she moves him away and then says 'it's ok it's John, he likes it rough'. It sounds more like victimization of the women then, like they can't do or want anything, they are just a victim of the bad men. Come on girl, it's ok, it's just the bad, bad John, who likes it rough. You are just a helpless female, who didn't want anything, don't have an opinion, didn't try to seduce him, and the engineer makes sure, that she and Gigi protect this victimhood. I don't know what was wrong with portraying Gigi as a real person in the first version. Also, the strength and beauty of this show has always been that it is not about good or bad people. It's about everyone being a victim of war. Where all characters make choices. Choices that are based on fighting for what they want, for a better life, on survival, not on what is the most politically correct, wholesome or protective. Which makes you really think about both sides of every story, because some GI's fell victim to some of these ladies too. Who made choices for dreams or survival, which did not come from a bad place. Both wanting to believe something that might not have been really there. The producer and director of this version have no respect for the show. Portraying the women as victims and the men as bullies is not what this show is about. It's about the opposite. About full characters. I can't stand the polarizing view this version imposes. |
|
|
|
Post by dan28 on Jul 9, 2023 14:27:16 GMT
Lastly, Joanna. She's obviously a fantastic performer, she acted and sung the role incredibly well. But it didn't feel like the engineer and it for me felt like a clear shoehorning in places. Also the humour was almost entirely gone and it really needs that from the engineer. This role is written in a male key, in all the parts with Kim, for example the whole "Back in town/Coo Coo Princess" sequences. Which are basically all conversations between Kim, the Engineer and Thuy, reacting on eachother. How did they solve this? Did Joanna sing everything an octave higher or did she sing it very low in the male key? Or did they transpose the whole sequence so that Kim and Thuy sing in other keys as well? About the humour, an important part of the character is the humour indeed, for example in the way he treats Kim, he should be kind of a rat that you root for. I wonder why they think that a woman can't be like that. It seems that their vision is that women can only be victims of circumstance. Without character. Only if the character is noble. |
|
|
|
Post by stepha on Jul 10, 2023 8:16:47 GMT
Hope no-one minds me asking a random question, but it looks like we might have the benefit of Sheffield locals on here... I am coming up to see the matinee on the 15th July but will be driving my campervan - can anyone recommend decent parking which isn't too tight and without a height barriers? I'm about 2.3 metres high so generally any indoor or barriered parking is no good. I'm happy with a fair walk to the theatre so parking doesn't have to be super close. Thanks! Edit - just to clarify, this is only for parking whilst at the theatre, not for overnighting! I've got a campsite booked for the night! Random questions are TB's specialty.  With a bit of time to spare, I'll answer your parking question in due course if I may. First off, I want to draw your attention to Sheffield's newly introduced Clean Air Zone. Although private cars are currently exempt, I believe, from reading various online forums, that campervans are a bit of a grey area. May I strongly suggest that you check the status of your vehicle on the Council website: www.sheffield.gov.uk/clean-air-zone-sheffieldEven if exempt, please, please, please DO NOT drive along Arundel Gate, towards the world-famous Crucible Theatre, in a northerly direction. There is now a bus gate in operation. I'd hate anybody to to receive two separate fines for the same theatre trip. Although the Council seems hellbent on deterring visitors, us locals are, on the whole, really friendly and welcoming. Much appreciated @tallpaul, thanks for this info. I've checked my campervan and fortunately, there is no charge for me but I'd have been in a panic had I not known and checked in advance! Noted re. Arundel Gate and I shall try to avoid (hopefully Google maps won't try and send me that way!). I've street-viewed my way around Sheffield and found car parks at Fitzwilliam Street and Carver Lane which appear not to have height barriers, so all will hopefully be OK. I'm now avoiding all of the reviews until after I've seen it on Saturday but will be back with my thoughts after then |
|
|
|
Post by cezbear on Jul 10, 2023 8:29:54 GMT
dan28 I don't think I explained very well - when the engineer says 'it's ok it's John, he likes it rough' she's saying it to the other GIs, to smooth over Gigi having thrown her sash at him. So a complete flip of how it's usually done, where in previous productions she says the same thing to the GIs but is talking about Gigi. On the engineer vocals, someone else with vetter musical knowledge hopefully will be able to comment better than me. To my not very knowledgable ears, there were parts that were raised and parts that weren't. I will say that nowhere did it feel like the vocal didn't fit naturally, even when it was sung higher than usual (and I had been worried about this). Kim & Thuy sang in the usual key.
|
|
1,995 posts
|
Post by distantcousin on Jul 10, 2023 12:36:49 GMT
I also went to see this last night. I didn’t like any aspect of it as a production, unfortunately. It’s a confused production, and oddly lacking in soul. I’ve seen the word sanitised used above, which is absolutely spot on. It feels like it is treading on eggshells and for all the changes, I can’t think of one aspect which was actually improved from prior productions.
On the train home, I was slightly more positive than the rest of my party of four. I am not precious about updating classic shows for modern sensibilities, provided there is a clear and defined vision for the piece. This production in my view sadly fails on this and most other levels, feeling insincere and cold. Last night I was leaning more towards 2*, but having slept on it I think it’s more of a 1* production. I’ve seen some terrific new productions over the years in Sheffield (such as a superb My Fair Lady) but this is not one of them. Finally, I’m not one for debating social politics, least of all in theatre. That said, it would be a terrible shame for theatre to lose its ambition and edge by polishing every rough edge. Not everything in theatre, as in life, needs to be glossy, saccharine and double dipped in sugar. We don’t want to get to a stage where every single moment of every production is workshopped, focus group tested and made “SFT” (Safe for Twitter) for fear of offending someone, somewhere. Oh and the cast were fine. Thanks toomasj, another really interesting review. Similarly not remotely precious about updating but totally agree you need a clear and defined vision. Parts in bold kinda summarise how I feel about the Aspects of Love revival. This was also sanitised and there wasn't actually a single aspect improved. And it's also treading on eggshells. IMHO you need to stick to the original or really go for a creative and daring re-imagining. One doesn't simply want a watered/dumbed down original.... Anyway, of course on Saigon I'll reserve judgement until I've seen it. For Sunset I pray that it will indeed be creative and daring (given the apparent evidence it won't be like the original). Still, it's great to have all these mega musicals still being performed in some format :-) Trouble is, Saigon is in danger of being written off as Aspects was by, I think, The Stage, and a couple of other outlets that they don't need to be revived because they have no place in 2023. That is the attitude among many influential people these days, it seems.... |
|
1,380 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by BVM on Jul 10, 2023 12:55:47 GMT
Thanks toomasj, another really interesting review. Similarly not remotely precious about updating but totally agree you need a clear and defined vision. Parts in bold kinda summarise how I feel about the Aspects of Love revival. This was also sanitised and there wasn't actually a single aspect improved. And it's also treading on eggshells. IMHO you need to stick to the original or really go for a creative and daring re-imagining. One doesn't simply want a watered/dumbed down original.... Anyway, of course on Saigon I'll reserve judgement until I've seen it. For Sunset I pray that it will indeed be creative and daring (given the apparent evidence it won't be like the original). Still, it's great to have all these mega musicals still being performed in some format :-) Trouble is, Saigon is in danger of being written off as Aspects was by, I think, The Stage, and a couple of other outlets that they don't need to be revived because they have no place in 2023. That is the attitude among many influential people these days, it seems.... I mean that one star review was just ridiculous - like, it's not credible journalism. I cancelled The Stage earlier this year.... (Edit - as in I stopped subscribing to them. Not as in I cancelled them like they tried to "cancel" Aspects of Love). |
|
1,380 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by BVM on Jul 10, 2023 12:59:02 GMT
Just wondering - did 7 people on here actually see this on Saturday evening or do some people vote in these polls without seeing the show!?
|
|
213 posts
|
Post by Rozzi Rainbow on Jul 10, 2023 13:52:35 GMT
Despite the theatre’s very reasonable prices this is turning out to be the most expensive theatre ticket ever. I’m having to hire a car FFS. I though you'd changed your ticket Burly? Or were you just advising us that we could change ours if we needed to? I've just rung up and changed mine - I was holding out in the hope the strikes might get cancelled. The box office were very helpful, and the only other date I can make - the final Saturday - still has a fair few seats left so I've got almost the same seat, just on the other side. I'm just hoping that they don't call new strikes on that date now! I've looked into Megabus and if push comes to shove I might be able to travel that way (and hopefully be able to get in from Meadowhall). If not, at least I'll only lose £25 - can't really complain at that given the price of most theatres tickets nowadays! Looking forward to reading more reviews between now and then, it certainly sounds intriguing. (Edit - sorry Burly and TallPaul, I've messed up the quotes by trying to delete the middle part!!) |
|
|
|
Post by dan28 on Jul 10, 2023 15:08:41 GMT
when the engineer says 'it's ok it's John, he likes it rough' she's saying it to the other GIs, to smooth over Gigi having thrown her sash at him. So a complete flip of how it's usually done, where in previous productions she says the same thing to the GIs but is talking about Gigi. On the engineer vocals, someone else with vetter musical knowledge hopefully will be able to comment better than me. To my not very knowledgable ears, there were parts that were raised and parts that weren't. I will say that nowhere did it feel like the vocal didn't fit naturally, even when it was sung higher than usual (and I had been worried about this). Kim & Thuy sang in the usual key. Thanks! Yes, I see what they were trying to do. "Hey guys, it's ok, the bad John can take it, because he likes it rough. Gigi can't do anything wrong, whatever she does, the man should take it" Making the men subordinate to women because that's woke nowadays. Women either in power at all times or helpless victims who can't be blamed. The idea of the old script (and reality) is clearly so scary for woke people that now the script has to lower the men to give gigi power, so that audiences know that she is in power at all times, and when she is not, it's because of bad men. Can blame men for anything, but women can't be blamed for anything. The need for completely flipping the script in this scene is bizarre. And I find it worrying. Because this also results in a fairytale in which no woman is ever treated poorly, ever. And women can't be blamed for anything, ever. Completely detached from reality. And it portrays women with such a protective view and a feigned inviolability and lack of responsibility that it is actually insulting and degrading women to merely victims who supposedly couldn't handle reality. And men to puppies whose only right to exist is feeding women's ego. I see this on almost every movie or play nowadays. I wonder if both men and women actually like this. The men and women I know actually don't. Also, it is very weird for a club owner to decide for their clients what they should accept or find ok, without any responsibility of what their employee prostitute is doing to them. Hopefully an audio will surface somewhere sometime. Thanks for sharing your experiences and views! |
|
19,659 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 10, 2023 15:23:48 GMT
I though you'd changed your ticket Burly? Or were you just advising us that we could change ours if we needed to? Yes, I left mine as is. I did exactly what you suggested for Sky’s Edge and on the date of the re-booking there was another strike. So I’m doing the hire car and will fit a visit to my mum in on the same day. |
|
|
|
Post by c4ndyc4ne on Jul 10, 2023 16:21:37 GMT
when the engineer says 'it's ok it's John, he likes it rough' she's saying it to the other GIs, to smooth over Gigi having thrown her sash at him. So a complete flip of how it's usually done, where in previous productions she says the same thing to the GIs but is talking about Gigi. On the engineer vocals, someone else with vetter musical knowledge hopefully will be able to comment better than me. To my not very knowledgable ears, there were parts that were raised and parts that weren't. I will say that nowhere did it feel like the vocal didn't fit naturally, even when it was sung higher than usual (and I had been worried about this). Kim & Thuy sang in the usual key. Thanks! Yes, I see what they were trying to do. "Hey guys, it's ok, the bad John can take it, because he likes it rough. Gigi can't do anything wrong, whatever she does, the man should take it" Making the men subordinate to women because that's woke nowadays. Women either in power at all times or helpless victims who can't be blamed. The idea of the old script (and reality) is clearly so scary for woke people that now the script has to lower the men to give gigi power, so that audiences know that she is in power at all times, and when she is not, it's because of bad men. Can blame men for anything, but women can't be blamed for anything. The need for completely flipping the script in this scene is bizarre. And I find it worrying. Because this also results in a fairytale in which no woman is ever treated poorly, ever. And women can't be blamed for anything, ever. Completely detached from reality. And it portrays women with such a protective view and a feigned inviolability and lack of responsibility that it is actually insulting and degrading women to merely victims who supposedly couldn't handle reality. And men to puppies whose only right to exist is feeding women's ego. I see this on almost every movie or play nowadays. I wonder if both men and women actually like this. The men and women I know actually don't. Also, it is very weird for a club owner to decide for their clients what they should accept or find ok, without any responsibility of what their employee prostitute is doing to them. Hopefully an audio will surface somewhere sometime. Thanks for sharing your experiences and views! unsure if this is your opinion on a show, seems to have morphed into generalisations about women in contemporary culture... i think the important context here is that the GIs are an invading military force - surely that alters the power dynamic and the conversations around gender that exist in the piece. anyway, like most people on this forum, i've not seen it yet, so won't throw in two cents til i have. |
|
|
|
Post by dan28 on Jul 10, 2023 21:13:16 GMT
unsure if this is your opinion on a show, seems to have morphed into generalisations about women in contemporary culture... i think the important context here is that the GIs are an invading military force - surely that alters the power dynamic and the conversations around gender that exist in the piece. The producer and director are making generalisations about women in contemporary culture and the culture back then. There was a certain kind of reality that you cannot just bend to current desires. So yes, you are right, that context is important for the show. |
|
