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Post by jamie2c on Jul 11, 2023 6:48:52 GMT
Most of these types of bars in Asia are actually managed by women mama-sans. I remember my original reaction on first seeing the show years ago was thinking, the engineer character should not be man.
I hope they have not tried to use the show to push an agenda. What matters is the best possible show.
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Post by distantcousin on Jul 11, 2023 9:07:22 GMT
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Post by PhantomNcl on Jul 11, 2023 9:46:12 GMT
Had a trip down from Newcastle to see this yesterday. As a LONG-time fan of Miss Saigon (having seen the original Drury Lane production umpteen times, subsequent UK tours, and Stuttgart and Prince Edward productions) I was very intrigued to see what they had done with this new version.
The set was fairly simple, with just the big back wall opening up to form entry/exit points, a set of steps which were moved around the stage into various positions, a revolve set into the stage floor, and minimal props (a podium, chairs, TV). The cast hardly left the stage area at all, mostly sitting around the edges and getting up when they were performing. All in all the simple staging helped to focus down on the characters themselves, rather than having the 'wow factor' and distraction of the original moving trucks.
The orchestra sounded fantastic, though at times a little bit too loud and drowned out some of the performers.
As other posters have said, it did feel like a very sanitised production, and lacked some of the grit of the original. In Dreamland the girls mostly stood around the edges of the stage while the GIs hung around a central table where they were drinking/gambling - there was very little interaction at all. Quite a lot of lyric changes too - whores replaced with girls, and the guys referring to themselves rather than the girls (e.g. "We won't get up off the floor" instead of "You won't get up off the floor". "Half-breeds" in Bui-Doi was replaced with "little kids" and "boat people" with "refugees".
There were no bar girls/boys in What a Waste, only a few acting as waitresses when we moved into the bar itself.
However, there were some really lovely new moments, like the Engineer joining in with Kim in Movie In My Mind, showing that she's doing what she's doing to reach an end too.
Bui-Doi's staging (with John first in a group therapy session, then on the streets flyering and finally in the conference) was incredibly moving as it really brought home the human impact on what they'd all gone through, rather than just being a plea for money. I confess to copious tears at that point!
There's a really nice section at the beginning of Morning of the Dragon where we see Thuy in training as a soldier, and his rise up to the higher rank later on. However, his death is really strange - there's a gunshot, but then he stands with his arms in the air as the chorus go into This Is The Hour, then turns and walks across the stage with the other soldiers. I heard someone in the bar during the interval say that until Kim burst into Dreamland with "Engineer, Thuy is dead" she hadn't realised what had happened.
The Fall of Saigon is staged really well, with the revolve moving the GIs and locals around, and the final moment as Kim reaches for Chris as he's pulled up to the helicopter is heartbreaking.
I Still Believe was rather strange with Chris wandering around a supermarket with Ellen trailing behind him singing, but there was a moment where Chris thinks he's seen Kim, and and one when someone startles him by dropping their basket on the floor (triggering "it's all over, I'm here, there is nothing to fear") which worked well.
The ending left me totally flat though - it's the first time I've ever seen Miss Saigon and not sobbed buckets. Having Kim stand up after her shooting and observe from the side of the stage (much like Fantine watching Cosette at the end of Les Mis) while Chris bent over an empty section of stage just lost all the sadness, especially when she asks him to hold her one last time then dies in his arms.
The cast were superb though, with some of the best performances I've seen over the years. The venue works really well with the thrust stage providing great views from all seats.
Overall I left act 1 feeling that I wanted to come and see it again, but at the end felt as though the final scene negated all I'd seen before, and wouldn't rush back in a hurry. I've given it 4 stars on the strength of the performances and overall staging, but it lacked the 5* punch of other productions.
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Post by PhantomNcl on Jul 11, 2023 9:48:53 GMT
Lastly, Joanna. She's obviously a fantastic performer, she acted and sung the role incredibly well. But it didn't feel like the engineer and it for me felt like a clear shoehorning in places. Also the humour was almost entirely gone and it really needs that from the engineer. This role is written in a male key, in all the parts with Kim, for example the whole "Back in town/Coo Coo Princess" sequences. Which are basically all conversations between Kim, the Engineer and Thuy, reacting on eachother. How did they solve this? Did Joanna sing everything an octave higher or did she sing it very low in the male key? Or did they transpose the whole sequence so that Kim and Thuy sing in other keys as well? About the humour, an important part of the character is the humour indeed, for example in the way he treats Kim, he should be kind of a rat that you root for. I wonder why they think that a woman can't be like that. It seems that their vision is that women can only be victims of circumstance. Without character. Only if the character is noble. From what I could tell most of the keys were as normal, but Joanna did a mixture of singing low, taking things up an octave, and speak-singing the bits which were too low for her to hit. All in all it worked really well. |
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Post by Dr Tom on Jul 11, 2023 22:08:06 GMT
If you know the show well, there’s plenty to enjoy here. If you don’t, I expect you won’t follow what’s going on.
For a production with a shoestring budget, they do well. The main set is a ladder, which can be moved around. The cast is rather small for Miss Saigon, which is a challenge when so many roles really have to restricted by ethnicity, and which leads to some interesting lighting choices and unusual interpretative dance choices to disguise things. Some decisions just don’t work, but some do.
With that said, the main vocals are excellent. Just a bit of muffling in the group numbers.
We had Tam appear at the start tonight, but the rest of the first half was done without Tam on stage. I’d assumed it was an odd artistic choice, but it turned out that Tam had become unavailable, so for the second half Tam was played by one of the directors.
I was sat in a cheap extreme end seat (late booking) and a few rows back. The view was absolutely fine, apart from I couldn’t read the screens. I don’t think I missed much. The show was practically sold out.
I would avoid the front row as there are extra seats in front where the cast sit for a lot of the show when not performing. You’re on the same level, so the view must be restricted.
My gut feeling here is 3 stars. It is still a preview. Some of the heart has been stripped from the show. But it is a cast who could easily give 5 star performances if given a set and better staging. I did warm to this much more in the second half than in the first half. No desire to go back though.
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Post by mikey on Jul 11, 2023 23:43:55 GMT
First time seeing this, I enjoyed it! The cast were excellent
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Jul 12, 2023 7:23:13 GMT
No doubt some people will find parts of the story 'icky'
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Post by cezbear on Jul 12, 2023 8:19:29 GMT
Slightly shameless, but if anyone wants a ticket for Saturday evening, I have a nice close central one for sale in the noticeboard (can't edit the post but will sell it for less).
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 12, 2023 9:15:43 GMT
Slightly shameless, but if anyone wants a ticket for Saturday evening, I have a nice close central one for sale in the noticeboard (can't edit the post but will sell it for less). if you’d like to PM me with a reduced price I can update your notice. |
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Post by dan28 on Jul 12, 2023 13:57:15 GMT
We had Tam appear at the start tonight, but the rest of the first half was done without Tam on stage. I’d assumed it was an odd artistic choice, but it turned out that Tam had become unavailable, so for the second half Tam was played by one of the directors. Interesting, to say the least. Aren't there always supposed to be 2 tams for exactly this reason? How did they solve all the lines sung about/to Tam in the first act? "Look Thuy, this is my son", "Let me see his western nose", "Come kiss your brand new auntie Tran", "This kid is ok" etc. How old was the director that played Tam in the 2nd act? |
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Post by Dr Tom on Jul 12, 2023 15:59:25 GMT
We had Tam appear at the start tonight, but the rest of the first half was done without Tam on stage. I’d assumed it was an odd artistic choice, but it turned out that Tam had become unavailable, so for the second half Tam was played by one of the directors. Interesting, to say the least. Aren't there always supposed to be 2 tams for exactly this reason? How did they solve all the lines sung about/to Tam in the first act? "Look Thuy, this is my son", "Let me see his western nose", "Come kiss your brand new auntie Tran", "This kid is ok" etc. How old was the director that played Tam in the 2nd act? It was an Asian lady, I would say in her 20s, slightly shorter than the main cast. She did very well in the circumstances. No line changes that I could pick up on. They just sang to an empty space. The director did make a short statement at the start of the second half to ask us to suspend our disbelief! I’m going to guess they’ll have three Tams (and that it would have been the first appearance for this child) but they may well only have one in the building at a time. |
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Post by ptwest on Jul 13, 2023 10:38:10 GMT
I saw this last night and was left both entertained but also completely unmoved.
Having a female engineer really works and Joanna Ampil gives it her all. I did find myself longing for an opportunity for her to really soar as that’s what I love about her singing but she nails the balance of sleaze and desperation that the character needs. The staging is completely different to any version of the show I have seen before and this had mixed results; the storytelling was clearer in act one without the distractions of big set pieces, but there were also some fairly bizarre directional choices across both acts; the progression from therapy session to conference worked well for Bui Doi, but the two deaths in particular were robbed of any emotion or impact by the static / ghostly nature of the way it was staged. If I didn’t know both characters had died I might have needed it explaining. The word “sanitized” has been used a lot to describe this production and I think this sums it up very well. The use of projections was excellent throughout and the relative lack of scenery was never an issue. The Crucible space is used well throughout.
But, I come back to what I felt when I saw the London Revival; the first act moves at a pace and you get wrapped up in Kim’s journey, the second she is reduced to statically standing for most of her stage time and simpering and warbling over Chris whilst all the other characters tell the story around her. Her character seems underwritten until we get to the ending. It doesn’t help that in my opinion The American Dream is a dreadful song, albeit well staged and performed in this version. So much time in act two is given to the Engineer it almost feels like they forgot who we are watching. The finale is a lot less tragic because it feels like a rushed ending when our focus has been taken away from the lead character.
Overall, the performances are good, credit needs to be given to Shanay Holmes as Ellen as it’s the first time I’ve actually not despised the character. Jessica Lee sings the role of Kim well but (as I’ve already said) she is hobbled by extremely static direction which makes her seem almost aloof at times – lots of standing still away from other characters with her arms firmly by her side. However, I had the same complaint about the London revival so maybe it is as written. There is good work too from Shane O’Riordan as John, Aynrand Ferrer as Gigi and the ensemble work hard throughout.
So for me this was a moderate success. A successful revival in so many ways, really my reservations stem from the source material itself. A shame because when the score and book are good, it really is very good indeed. Its just that for me the weaknesses are too hard to ignore. If you love the show and are prepared to let go your memories of the original then its worth a look.
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Post by richey on Jul 13, 2023 11:33:03 GMT
Some official production pics. It looks very pretty but also confirms what previous posts have said about it being sanitised. Really not sure about the outfits that they've given to Joanna. Maybe they work better in the context of the show but she looks very glamourous. http://instagram.com/p/CuojLFfO2Nz |
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 13, 2023 13:00:36 GMT
I was also there last. Sitting just one (and two) seats along from the co-directors, I can confirm that, in Sheffield, notes are made the old-fashioned way, with pen and paper. And boy, were notes made! Saturday's first performance was probably quite different to Monday's, which was probably quite different to Tuesday's... The cast will have had a busy day ahead of opening night proper.
It wasn't really my plan to see a preview, but when I spotted what will be a £60 seat had been reduced to £15, I couldn't resist the temptation. I never normally get to enter the world-famous auditorium through the Red door!
The highlights of each act were, for me, The Last Night of the World and The American Dream. The latter being as close to a traditional production number as you'll get in this 'new' version. Joanna Ampil is so perfect for the role, it's hard to imagine the Engineer as a man.
I went with an open mind and thought it a 4-star production. Just as well, as my initial booking is for the last night.
ETA: Standing ovation, too. After staying for the playout music, and a final wave from the MD, I excitedly exited the Crucible at exactly 10.16pm.
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Post by ptwest on Jul 13, 2023 13:35:00 GMT
We must have been close - I was also able to g through the red door! It would have been good to say hello! But given that I’m also called Paul and am also tall it could have been confusing!!
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Post by kz on Jul 13, 2023 17:42:20 GMT
I saw this last night too. I think I must have been two rows directly behind you @tallpaul as I clocked the note taking too.
I enjoyed it. Not quite as impressive as the London productions but I thought the projections for the boat and the helicopter worked well. I'd warned my husband that there wouldn't be an actual helicopter having read posts on here beforehand but we both found the staging really effective.
I don't have a cast list to hand for the actors' names but thought Kim was excellent and enjoyed Joanna as The Engineer. Having such a strong singer really brought something to the role, as well as the new perspective with the female Engineer. I thought Ellen was great and have found Maybe to be really quite emotional, which I can't say I've ever felt in previous productions. I also enjoyed the opening of Morning of the Dragon focusing on Thuy and thought he gave a strong performance.
Some of the lyric changes were a bit clunky and I agree with other posters that the ending lost some of emotional impact with the current staging. There wasn't any opportunity for Kim and Chris to interact which felt cold rather than any more tragic.
Overall, we enjoyed it. Our first time at The Crucible too.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 13, 2023 17:51:25 GMT
I hope people going to the Crucible for the first time are enjoying it. Even if the brutalist exterior isn’t to people’s taste, the lovely foyer and beautiful auditorium with its starry night ceiling must surely appeal ❤️
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 13, 2023 18:05:20 GMT
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Post by PhantomNcl on Jul 13, 2023 18:46:09 GMT
I hope people going to the Crucible for the first time are enjoying it. Even if the brutalist exterior isn’t to people’s taste, the lovely foyer and beautiful auditorium with its starry night ceiling must surely appeal ❤️ Yes yes yes yes yes! Such a fantastic space, both FoH and in the auditorium. Our view from P33 was incredible, and the staff were really friendly too. |
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Post by mrnutz on Jul 14, 2023 8:27:23 GMT
I hope people going to the Crucible for the first time are enjoying it. Even if the brutalist exterior isn’t to people’s taste, the lovely foyer and beautiful auditorium with its starry night ceiling must surely appeal ❤️ What's the seating like in the side sections? I'm D 17. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 14, 2023 8:33:45 GMT
I was sat in a cheap extreme end seat (late booking) and a few rows back. The view was absolutely fine, apart from I couldn’t read the screens. I don’t think I missed much. The show was practically sold out. I would avoid the front row as there are extra seats in front where the cast sit for a lot of the show when not performing. You’re on the same level, so the view must be restricted. I hope people going to the Crucible for the first time are enjoying it. Even if the brutalist exterior isn’t to people’s taste, the lovely foyer and beautiful auditorium with its starry night ceiling must surely appeal ❤️ What's the seating like in the side sections? I'm D 17. See Dr Tom ’s comment above. Looks like he was much further to the side than you. I think D17 will be a fantastic view. |
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Post by mrnutz on Jul 14, 2023 9:03:17 GMT
I was sat in a cheap extreme end seat (late booking) and a few rows back. The view was absolutely fine, apart from I couldn’t read the screens. I don’t think I missed much. The show was practically sold out. I would avoid the front row as there are extra seats in front where the cast sit for a lot of the show when not performing. You’re on the same level, so the view must be restricted. What's the seating like in the side sections? I'm D 17. See Dr Tom ’s comment above. Looks like he was much further to the side than you. I think D17 will be a fantastic view. Thank you! I will - of course - report back. I'm in for the Saturday matinee. |
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Post by musicalfloozie on Jul 14, 2023 9:45:34 GMT
I'm in for this Sat Mat as well. I'm debating booking more tickets as I do love the score. Its interesting to see everyone's reviews and ratings on this.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 14, 2023 13:25:26 GMT
There’s a £45 seat for this Saturday evening available on the Noticeboard for £25.
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Post by musicalfloozie on Jul 16, 2023 12:13:04 GMT
I really enjoyed this production 4 stars from me. Yes it is a slightly watered down version but if I didn't know all the words and had seen the show before it's not drastically different.
The cast were great and I enjoyed a female engineer, I think for me Chris' character was now my least favourite and possibly the slight weak link in the show. I enjoyed his performance more in person than I did the promo video though but I just didn't connect with their performance as much.
The orchestra were great, it's the busiest I've seen the Crucible be at the very end for a final round of applause for them!
I've rebooked to see again in a few weeks even if it is just to see Shanay singing Maybe again.
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