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Post by curiouskc on Oct 19, 2023 11:52:30 GMT
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Post by mrbarnaby on Oct 19, 2023 12:10:11 GMT
Astonished that Caissie isn’t nominated.
Scherzinger will win because she’s the most famous.
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Post by strawberrypie on Oct 19, 2023 16:24:04 GMT
I hate that the ES throws the female and male musical theatre nominations (just 4 total!!!) into one pot, but separates best actors and actresses for plays. Why? It's a travesty that Caissie wasn't nominated. #robbed
(I'd also argue Jamie should have been nominated - his Dan was one of the most heart-breaking MT performance I've seen in years)
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Post by curiouskc on Oct 19, 2023 17:37:52 GMT
I'd have predicted at minimum that Caissie would have been nominated in the Best Musical Performer category (though admittedly, the other nominees in this category are really deserving) and that the show would have been nominated for Best Musical. Jack's nomination is a very welcome surprise, especially for an awards that does seem to favour the 'big name' stars. Makes me hopeful for Jack becoming a breakout star and scoring nominations elsewhere.
But given all the current hype about Nicole Scherzinger in Sunset...is it becoming likely Caissie will lose out on what a lot of us hoped would be a sure-fire Olivier win? It worries me that she wasn't even nominated here. Only singling out four musical theatre performers as opposed to eight actors from straight plays is unfair and imbalanced. If they want to eliminate gendered categories, I don't mind, but at least replace with lead and supporting categories.
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Post by austink on Oct 19, 2023 17:42:09 GMT
The evening standard awards have been a joke for a decade and is solely tied to whomever their owner wants a picture with. Cassie is a queen and I doubt the people who did the nominations actually saw the show.
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Post by apubleed on Oct 19, 2023 17:50:46 GMT
I do think Nicole could upset the category though, especially if they do a cast recording and her voice is fresh in the mind of voters. I personally think I’d still give it to Levy, but I would not be surprised if she loses to Nicole sadly.
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Post by Being Alive on Oct 19, 2023 17:56:22 GMT
Evening Standard awards is 'most famous person wins'
Oliviers less so, but I still think Nicole is going to cause Caissie a massive issue.
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Post by BVM on Oct 19, 2023 18:10:32 GMT
Out of interest, is there anyone who’s NOT a massive fan of the show that thinks Cassie should be winning for this? As devotees of a show thinking the star should win the lot is different from the transcending of boundaries that best performance awards can ideally represent.
Probs get killed for saying this but whilst she sang the score perfectly and acted the role well as written, I found it slightly one note. I’d blame the piece for that though. The depiction of bipolar was unrealistic for me and I found the other three family members went on far more interesting journeys.
Whereas in Sunset, there were so many naysayers re Nicole (especially on here) who then went and were blown away. Which one could argue is a bigger achievement.
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Post by toomasj on Oct 19, 2023 18:51:08 GMT
Fully expected this, the ES awards and the WoS awards are a bit of a joke. Their sole interest is in having the biggest names turn up to collect their “awards” so they can photograph them at the event surrounded by on-brand marketing. They do a very sneaky (or being generous, lazy) thing whereby they give the awards to the most famous/or relevant person amongst their demographic. Which is common sense really from their perspective - the Guardian aren’t exactly going to award Suella Braverman “Politician of the Year”. WoS awarding something - anything - to Carrie Hope Fletcher every year is absolutely on brand. She brings with her that sweet sweet social media engagement and all those lovely clicks.
The one everyone really wants for recognition of a stage performance is the Tony, closely followed by the Olivier.
I can’t see Caissie being overlooked for the big award, as she gives one of the great performances of the decade so far.
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Post by budd on Oct 19, 2023 20:16:39 GMT
Fully expected this, the ES awards and the WoS awards are a bit of a joke. Their sole interest is in having the biggest names turn up to collect their “awards” so they can photograph them at the event surrounded by on-brand marketing. They do a very sneaky (or being generous, lazy) thing whereby they give the awards to the most famous/or relevant person amongst their demographic. Which is common sense really from their perspective - the Guardian aren’t exactly going to award Suella Braverman “Politician of the Year”. WoS awarding something - anything - to Carrie Hope Fletcher every year is absolutely on brand. She brings with her that sweet sweet social media engagement and all those lovely clicks. The one everyone really wants for recognition of a stage performance is the Tony, closely followed by the Olivier. I can’t see Caissie being overlooked for the big award, as she gives one of the great performances of the decade so far. At least WoS have audience voting, so that measure of popularity or perhaps more accurately, fervour among people paying attention to them says SOMETHING at least. ES don't have that, even though I think they put together a decent panel, everyone knows that Lebedev reigns ultimately. The categorisation says everything. There are always fewer big name stars to go around in musicals. Plus there seems to be some unpoken rule that they'll rarely nominate two people from the same musical |
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Post by doornumberthree on Oct 19, 2023 22:52:46 GMT
Out of interest, is there anyone who’s NOT a massive fan of the show that thinks Cassie should be winning for this? As devotees of a show thinking the star should win the lot is different from the transcending of boundaries that best performance awards can ideally represent. Probs get killed for saying this but whilst she sang the score perfectly and acted the role well as written, I found it slightly one note. I’d blame the piece for that though. The depiction of bipolar was unrealistic for me and I found the other three family members went on far more interesting journeys. Whereas in Sunset, there were so many naysayers re Nicole (especially on here) who then went and were blown away. Which one could argue is a bigger achievement. Can I ask what you found unrealistic about the depiction of bipolar? Not in a mean way, I’m just genuinely curious because I have first hand experience with bipolar, and have multiple people closely related to me with it and it’s been something that’s been prominent in my life for at least the last 25 years, and personally, this is the only depiction of it that I found realistic. Obviously mental illnesses manifest themselves in different ways for different people! |
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Post by Being Alive on Oct 19, 2023 23:02:54 GMT
I second this - I'm very open in saying my mother has bipolar and watching Caissie in this show was literally like watching my mother in front of me so I'd argue it's an incredibly realistic portrayal of bipolar
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Post by apubleed on Oct 20, 2023 6:21:05 GMT
Mental illness is complex, which is one of the main themes of the show. I’m always surprised when people have an issue if it doesn’t quite reflect their experience - because everyone does have unique experiences.
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Oct 20, 2023 7:46:06 GMT
Fully expected this, the ES awards and the WoS awards are a bit of a joke. Their sole interest is in having the biggest names turn up to collect their “awards” so they can photograph them at the event surrounded by on-brand marketing. They do a very sneaky (or being generous, lazy) thing whereby they give the awards to the most famous/or relevant person amongst their demographic. Which is common sense really from their perspective - the Guardian aren’t exactly going to award Suella Braverman “Politician of the Year”. WoS awarding something - anything - to Carrie Hope Fletcher every year is absolutely on brand. She brings with her that sweet sweet social media engagement and all those lovely clicks. The one everyone really wants for recognition of a stage performance is the Tony, closely followed by the Olivier. I can’t see Caissie being overlooked for the big award, as she gives one of the great performances of the decade so far. CHF has won 3 times in 7 years, so not quite true. |
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Oct 20, 2023 7:51:24 GMT
Mental illness is complex, which is one of the main themes of the show. I’m always surprised when people have an issue if it doesn’t quite reflect their experience - because everyone does have unique experiences. So if people have their own unique expeirence with mental health, why are you surprised if it doesn't reflect someone else's experience? |
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Post by apubleed on Oct 20, 2023 8:20:25 GMT
That’s not what I said - I said I’m surprised that people take an issue with it (rather than acknowledge of course everyone’s own story is different and take the material for what it is).
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Post by BVM on Oct 20, 2023 9:34:18 GMT
Fully expected this, the ES awards and the WoS awards are a bit of a joke. Their sole interest is in having the biggest names turn up to collect their “awards” so they can photograph them at the event surrounded by on-brand marketing. They do a very sneaky (or being generous, lazy) thing whereby they give the awards to the most famous/or relevant person amongst their demographic. Which is common sense really from their perspective - the Guardian aren’t exactly going to award Suella Braverman “Politician of the Year”. WoS awarding something - anything - to Carrie Hope Fletcher every year is absolutely on brand. She brings with her that sweet sweet social media engagement and all those lovely clicks. The one everyone really wants for recognition of a stage performance is the Tony, closely followed by the Olivier. I can’t see Caissie being overlooked for the big award, as she gives one of the great performances of the decade so far. Not actually true. Patrick Vaill won this category for Oklahoma at the last ones. And Rosalie Craig the ones before that. Not exactly household names. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Oct 20, 2023 9:41:54 GMT
Were they up against a more famous celebrity? I suspect not.
The ES are obsessed with celebrities. Nicole’s name is already engraved on this award.
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Post by BVM on Oct 20, 2023 9:45:32 GMT
I’m 100% sure that in an entire year’s worth of musicals, there was someone more famous than Patrick Vaill in a lead role.
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Post by curiouskc on Oct 20, 2023 9:56:05 GMT
So going with the 'Most Famous Wins' rule for ES...I'm guessing we can predict Taylor Russell winning in the Emerging Talent category? Mostly I'm just hoping that Jack's nom is a sign that he'll be on track for an Olivier nom alongside Caissie. I'd like to see several of the cast recognized.
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Post by Being Alive on Oct 20, 2023 10:11:21 GMT
So going with the 'Most Famous Wins' rule for ES...I'm guessing we can predict Taylor Russell winning in the Emerging Talent category? Mostly I'm just hoping that Jack's nom is a sign that he'll be on track for an Olivier nom alongside Caissie. I'd like to see several of the cast recognized. You'd assume Taylor will win, which would be mad as she was terrible in The Effect |
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Post by curiouskc on Oct 20, 2023 11:16:49 GMT
So going with the 'Most Famous Wins' rule for ES...I'm guessing we can predict Taylor Russell winning in the Emerging Talent category? Mostly I'm just hoping that Jack's nom is a sign that he'll be on track for an Olivier nom alongside Caissie. I'd like to see several of the cast recognized. You'd assume Taylor will win, which would be mad as she was terrible in The Effect I didn't see 'The Effect' so I can't comment on her stage debut. I've seen her give good performances in a few films. But that's the thing. She's already a well-known young talent in her (already pretty extensive) film career - a film career which I assume Taylor will go back to after dipping her toe in theatre. Whereas Jack is predominantly a theatre actor and N2N feels like his breakout role likely lead to a long musical theatre career. |
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Post by Being Alive on Oct 20, 2023 11:23:31 GMT
You'd assume Taylor will win, which would be mad as she was terrible in The Effect I didn't see 'The Effect' so I can't comment on her stage debut. I've seen her give good performances in a few films. But that's the thing. She's already a well-known young talent in her (already pretty extensive) film career - a film career which I assume Taylor will go back to after dipping her toe in theatre. Whereas Jack is predominantly a theatre actor and N2N feels like his breakout role likely lead to a long musical theatre career. Oh she was good in the film stuff I've seen her in, she was just woefully inequipped to keep up with her 3 co-stars in the show. |
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Post by BVM on Oct 20, 2023 12:06:41 GMT
Out of interest, is there anyone who’s NOT a massive fan of the show that thinks Cassie should be winning for this? As devotees of a show thinking the star should win the lot is different from the transcending of boundaries that best performance awards can ideally represent. Probs get killed for saying this but whilst she sang the score perfectly and acted the role well as written, I found it slightly one note. I’d blame the piece for that though. The depiction of bipolar was unrealistic for me and I found the other three family members went on far more interesting journeys. Whereas in Sunset, there were so many naysayers re Nicole (especially on here) who then went and were blown away. Which one could argue is a bigger achievement. Can I ask what you found unrealistic about the depiction of bipolar? Not in a mean way, I’m just genuinely curious because I have first hand experience with bipolar, and have multiple people closely related to me with it and it’s been something that’s been prominent in my life for at least the last 25 years, and personally, this is the only depiction of it that I found realistic. Obviously mental illnesses manifest themselves in different ways for different people! Yeah sure, same as you really, some first hand personal experience. But a lot more professional experience so lots of patients I’ve met. There are no norms in mental illness as has been noted but there are certainly symptoms and signs that are more common in each psychiatric diagnosis. Perhaps a better way of expressing myself would be that NTN shows (to me) an atypical presentation. But not an impossible one. I do have a list of the specific ways in which I found her atypical/not that realistic but it’s so personal and mental illness is experienced differently by different people so I don’t think it’s worth listing those. And if others do see themselves/people they know in the character, that’s obviously great. There were good bits as I think I said in my review. The sheer relentlessness of the illness and the real struggle of going through so many treatments and none of them really working was both sad and sadly realistic. The effect on the family was also very well done. Should add that the medics in the show and the treatments were SO unrealistic (certainly for the UK), that that may have coloured my feelings on the representation of the illness. I totally agree though, that to have representation at all, and to have a bipolar character leading a musical is wonderful and must be great to see for most people with first hand experience. But if there were 20 musicals with a lead bipolar character and we started comparing them, IMHO NTN might suddenly look much less realistic. But no doubt it’s a good start. Back on topic though I think Cassie works fantastically with what she’s got. I just feel best actress in a musical needs an incredible role and an incredible performance. Which I didn’t get here. Though of course I know many people on here did ✌🏻. (And as per my earlier post vast majority of people calling for her to win are very big fans of the show). |
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Post by toomasj on Oct 20, 2023 12:45:56 GMT
I think Cassie works fantastically with what she’s got. I just feel best actress in a musical needs an incredible role and an incredible performance. Which I didn’t get here. Though of course I know many people on here did ✌🏻. (And as per my earlier post vast majority of people calling for her to win are very big fans of the show). I’m not sure this is making the point you intended. Most very big fans of shows are very tribal and protective of original productions/casts. Alice Ripley was huge for a while in the late 2000’s, and won lots of awards including the Tony award. I think it’s quite surprising therefore that many, including myself, who saw both productions actually favour much or even all of the Donmar production. And, tellingly, Caissie Levy’s performance over Ripley’s - believe it or not (sorry). To take a performance like Ripley’s ingrained in musical theatre history and re-imagine it anew without being negatively compared to the original takes some real doing. Big fans are usually the hardest to please and the fact they were won over as well by Levy’s stunning performance is quite a superb achievement for the actress and the production. |
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