Anything Goes - Barbican / U.K.Tour

[robertb213]

Jun 8, 2021 11:27:24 GMT southstreet said:

It is also important to understand that sometimes things are offensive when no malice is intended. I don't agree with cancel culture for minor, ill-advised situations like this, but as someone who has been affected by microaggressions all my life, in the vast majority of cases I experienced I am fairly certain that there was no malice meant. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be called out and brought to the person's attention, so that they can learn and try to do better in the future.

So in this case I am all for calling her out on it but definitely don't think this warrants cancelling her. At least not just on the basis of this one performance.

That's actually a really good point.

Like when someone says 'that's so gay' as a negative, I often take a slight bit of offence initially, and then realise that they didn't mean it maliciously. Sometimes it's just about drawing attention to it so the person can learn from it, rather than trying to destroy them 😀

[musicalmarge]

Jun 7, 2021 20:40:01 GMT LaLuPone said:

Has everyone seen the video of Sutton that’s recently resurfaced on twitter where she’s performing And I Am Telling You in a concert and doing a pretty offensive Jennifer Holliday “impression”, and effectively making fun of black voices? I’m definitely not a fan of “cancel culture” and the way people seem not to be allowed to make a single mistake for fear of being mauled by the social media mobs but what Sutton’s done was tone-deaf at best, and I think it’s completely understandable that many black actors in the industry are finding it offensive. It was supposedly about 10 years ago when this was filmed but as others have said online, I still don’t really see how she would have viewed this type of micro-aggression as acceptable even in 2010. Hopefully she can try to make amends for this because it seems many of the theatre people who were initially very excited to see her West End debut are now wishing she wasn’t coming at all!

This is why I just hate living in the UK in 2021. Woke cultural nonsense. Of COURSE she’s not being racist signing a famous Broadway belting song which had a signature theme and tone. Exactly the same way Somewhere Thats Green has a signature sound. For people to go back to social media messages and recordings from over a decade ago is also foolish - go back far enough and you can see homophobic AND racist comments from every leader on the planet. She was singing a song not in the KKK. I despair......

[danb]

Quite agree MM…And lots is made of re-educating people. What if people have re-educated themselves having recognised something unpleasant in their beliefs, and then they get called out on past transgressions? The current thing with cricket players, and trawling though their past tweets to find dirt is really no better than Scum paps going through peoples bins.

[sparky5000]

I’m not black so I obviously can’t speak for the black community and am not trying to - of course seeing videos like Sutton’s are triggering, and I understand their hurt. But the issue I have is that most of the ~condemnation~ I’ve seen seems to have come from the young white British theatre twitter crowd who have just become this woke baying twitter mob over everything, and it’s exhausting to see. It’s almost like they need to be following the crowd and be seen to be on the ~right~ side, and the way they do that is by demanding instant cancellation without any attempt to find context or listen to explanations etc. It’s like every day they need to tick their “been an ally” box and are always on the hunt for new victims, today’s being Sutton!

I’m not saying what Sutton did wasn’t a micro aggression in really bad taste, especially when looked at through today’s lens, but it’s obvious her intent was not malicious - there just doesn’t seem to be any grace these days!

[42ndBlvd]

To lighten the mood…

http://instagram.com/p/CP26XUcHsOA

[Deleted]

Jun 8, 2021 10:22:42 GMT craig said:

There's so many important conversations to have about systemic racism and micro aggressions in our society. This isn't one of them.

I don't think it's for white people to say this isn't a conversation that should be had. That in itself is potentially demeaning the feelings of those who have a right to feel offended by this.

And that is the key for me - how to react to this should be driven by those to whom it relates, not anyone else. Those of us who can never understand that but can be allies need to take our cue from them, not become a baying mob on Twitter like so many have without asking what those who are actually affected by it want us to do.

[alece10]

What would some of the People complaining make of Forbidden Broadway?

[danb]

Does this render impressionists and tribute artists cancelled then?

[sph]

Jun 8, 2021 15:59:35 GMT danb said:

Does this render impressionists and tribute artists cancelled then?

Not really. Deborah Stephenson for example often impersonates female comedians and presenters to great acclaim, but on the other hand I'm sure it wouldn't be well received if she did an impression of a disabled comedian like Rosie Jones.

[Deleted]

Jun 8, 2021 15:59:35 GMT danb said:

Does this render impressionists and tribute artists cancelled then?

The term "cancelled" should be cancelled...

It should render any impressionist or tribute act that is inappropriate unacceptable - e.g. a white woman as a Tina Turner impersonator, for example. That is no different to the reason we don't have minstrel shows any more...

[danb]

But you would hope that nobody would do that and that each individual would assess each impression with sensitivity. Unfortunately people will leap on any remotely controversial point and turn it into a stick to beat people with. Sometimes rightly so, sometimes wholly unnecessary. But I don’t think this is it…

…and I totally agree about ‘cancelled’. It is a horrible concept.

[sph]

A lot of people hating her on twitter at the moment seem to be almost gleeful in their hatred, and many are London-based (unknown) actors. I sure hope they've all led perfect lives themselves because one day the mob might come for them...

[mrbarnaby]

I’m amazed how many actors are publicly damning her. It doesn’t seem very professional to tear other actors down.

Then again, the ones doing it are hardly at the top of the industry.

[inthenose]

Absolutely pathetic. I despair for what social media has done to people's persecution complexes, I really do. Twitter has caused so much harm to vulnerable people's mental health.

It used to be a healthy dose of schadenfreude was shared by all. Seeing that a killer or rapist was jailed in the news is something everyone can get behind.

But now we have bitter, entitled and frankly awful professional victims whose sole purpose in life is to trawl through social media and live their own lives, desperately trying to find things to be offended by.

This is the first generation of young people being raised by the internet, specifically taking their social cues from social media. It's only going to get worse.

I don't think Sutton Foster did anything wrong. She chose to apologise (probably in fear for her career, hoping this whole nightmare will go away), but I know I wouldn't. If I was ever in that situation and I knew I had no ill intentions, I'd certainly not apologise to the circling piranhas.

[Deleted]

Jennifer Holiday has a very unique style of singing. I saw her live a few years back, and her vocal stylings on AIATY were comical, like she was almost parodying herself. That's her calling card, what she is known for.

Now its being turned into a race issue, when really, it has nothing to do with her being black.It not how all black people sing, its not a stereotype.

Say for example, that Rene Elise Goldsbury performed a song from Mary Poppins, the same way Julie Andrews does it. Would people be claiming she's mocking a white woman? Probably not, because reverse racism isnt really a thing, but its the exact same thing. Its not about the race, its about the original singer.

[mrbarnaby]

What’s so scary is that there are seemingly no grey areas, or room for nuance.

Context means a lot and from what I’ve heard, this song was performed during a sequence about certain Diva’s voices and performances.

I hope it all blows over and these people have something else to be outraged over very soon without Foster having to release a grand apology video.

I do love all these people saying how they won’t be seeing Anything Goes out of protest. Like they probably would anyway. Their loss.

Interesting that there’s no discussion of this topic on Broadwayworld
Message board. I wonder if someone did post about it and it was removed

[robertb213]

People seem to be calling it hypocritical that Seyi Omooba was vilified but Sutton Foster can do no wrong....?

These are in no way the same thing!! Seyi basically said 'homosexuality is wrong but please let me play the lead in The Color Purple'. Sutton gave a stylised performance of a very OTT song as part of an 'iconic divas' tribute. These situations could not be further apart from each other.

I also don't get what's caused the footage to recirculate this week when it's been around for a decade (as has the album it appears on!).

[FairyGodmother]

Jun 8, 2021 22:17:13 GMT @tbfl said:

Jennifer Holiday has a very unique style of singing. I saw her live a few years back, and her vocal stylings on AIATY were comical, like she was almost parodying herself. That's her calling card, what she is known for.

Now its being turned into a race issue, when really, it has nothing to do with her being black.It not how all black people sing, its not a stereotype.

Say for example, that Rene Elise Goldsbury performed a song from Mary Poppins, the same way Julie Andrews does it. Would people be claiming she's mocking a white woman? Probably not, because reverse racism isnt really a thing, but its the exact same thing. Its not about the race, its about the original singer.

I agree with this. Shirley Bassey tribute acts aren't mimicking a mixed race style of singing — they're mimicking Shirley Bassey.

[42ndBlvd]

Jun 8, 2021 22:30:04 GMT robertb213 said:

People seem to be calling it hypocritical that Seyi Omooba was vilified but Sutton Foster can do no wrong....?

These are in no way the same thing!! Seyi basically said 'homosexuality is wrong but please let me play the lead in The Color Purple'. Sutton gave a stylised performance of a very OTT song as part of an 'iconic divas' tribute. These situations could not be further apart from each other.

I also don't get what's caused the footage to recirculate this week when it's been around for a decade (as has the album it appears on!).

Has it been? I can't find it anywhere else online. Only recently it seemed to be have been re-shared on Twitter. I did manage to find it, posted on Tiktok a couple weeks ago and it seems that's where all the backlash started before moving to twitter..

[Deleted]

Jun 8, 2021 11:27:24 GMT southstreet said:

It is also important to understand that sometimes things are offensive when no malice is intended. I don't agree with cancel culture for minor, ill-advised situations like this, but as someone who has been affected by microaggressions all my life, in the vast majority of cases I experienced I am fairly certain that there was no malice meant. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be called out and brought to the person's attention, so that they can learn and try to do better in the future.

So in this case I am all for calling her out on it but definitely don't think this warrants cancelling her. At least not just on the basis of this one performance.

I couldn't agree more that micro-agressions should be called out. When they happen.

But not 10 years later. People saying, hey, I was offended by what you did 10 years ago, is nonsense. Complete nonsense. You're presuming that they haven't already learnt from the past, that they are doing the same thing today. There is really only 1 person in this world who has a real reason to call Sutton Foster out, and that is Jennifer Holiday. There's no reason for anyone else to be offended by it, unless they're jumping on the bandwagon.

If you think calling her out is the right idea, will you be going to address everyone that has been micro-aggressive towards you in the past? Probably not, so why Sutton Foster?

southstreet This isn't meant as a personal attack, it's a general response to the whole calling people out thing.

[craig]

I just had a trawl through Twitter. We are talking about a few dozen, mostly white, people who seem to have taken offence to Sutton's rendition of this song. That's it.

Talk about a storm in a teacup.

Next.

[sph]

Jun 8, 2021 23:01:40 GMT craig said:

I just had a trawl through Twitter. We are talking about a few dozen, mostly white, people who seem to have taken offence to Sutton's rendition of this song. That's it.

Talk about a storm in a teacup.

Next.

That's all it takes these days, and they've been tagging the Barbican and the Anything Goes production in their tweets.

And she has a reputation for being such a nice, down-to-earth person too. People have too much time on their hands, if there was a lot going on in their own lives they wouldn't be worrying about this video.

[David J]

Jun 8, 2021 23:12:37 GMT sph said:

Jun 8, 2021 23:01:40 GMT craig said:

I just had a trawl through Twitter. We are talking about a few dozen, mostly white, people who seem to have taken offence to Sutton's rendition of this song. That's it.

Talk about a storm in a teacup.

Next.

That's all it takes these days, and they've been tagging the Barbican and the Anything Goes production in their tweets.

The question now is will the producers have the spine to ignore this small group of people.

There's been multiple businesses recently who have the notion that this small, vocal, progressive twitterati will buy their products if they pander to them or concede to their demands. When in reality these trigger happy people have no interest. It's their agenda that matters and once they've got rid of the filth they move on.

I hope Sutton stays. It seems logical not to cast a replacement and soon after fire her. Then again we are living in strange times at the moment

[MrBraithwaite]

If Sutton drops out, the Barbican will pay me my money back. End of non-story. So glad I'm not on social media.

[juicy_but_terribly_drab]

Jun 8, 2021 22:17:13 GMT @tbfl said:

Jennifer Holiday has a very unique style of singing. I saw her live a few years back, and her vocal stylings on AIATY were comical, like she was almost parodying herself. That's her calling card, what she is known for.

Now its being turned into a race issue, when really, it has nothing to do with her being black.It not how all black people sing, its not a stereotype.

Say for example, that Rene Elise Goldsbury performed a song from Mary Poppins, the same way Julie Andrews does it. Would people be claiming she's mocking a white woman? Probably not, because reverse racism isnt really a thing, but its the exact same thing. Its not about the race, its about the original singer.

She has a unique style of singing for sure but it's very much from the gospel tradition which is obviously a uniquely African American genre. So yeah she might have been specifically trying to ape Holliday's style alone, but the style itself is rooted in black culture and that coupled with the long history of minstrelsy making fun of black people's way of speaking and mannerisms in the US is what makes it problematic for a lot of people.