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Post by musicalmarge on Aug 26, 2019 11:00:50 GMT
Such a slippery slope. Only gay people can play gay roles? Only Scousers in Blood Brothers? And I thought it was all acting and make believe! Oh thank goodness you're here marge! I knew we could count on you to actually read everything that's been posted and use your sensitivity and tact and not completely and ignorantly misconstrue a part of the debate that's been talked about 800 times! I think it’s total TOSH. It’s theatre NOT real life. Period |
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Post by theatremadness on Aug 26, 2019 11:06:41 GMT
In the words of Trina: I'm breaking down, I'm breaking down......down......down........
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Post by sf on Aug 26, 2019 11:22:36 GMT
It would be so nice if people could ACTUALLY READ the complaint before passing judgement on its merits. It's not simply about casting, and the original letter and the follow-up statement, both of which are linked elsewhere in this conversation, make it crystal clear that nobody is demanding every Jewish role be played by a Jewish actor.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 26, 2019 11:30:31 GMT
It would also be so nice if people could actually wait to see the production before making their complaints.
The letter and statement also have to be viewed in the context of additional comments made by the leader of this.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 12:15:15 GMT
Such a slippery slope. Only gay people can play gay roles? Only Scousers in Blood Brothers? And I thought it was all acting and make believe! Your argument falls apart when you start to remember your own views on colour blind casting, though. You have been openly defensive over non-white actors cast in historically white roles, so your live and let live attitude is in your own words “Tosh”. Or is it just the straight white male community which you wish to defend? |
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Post by alece10 on Aug 26, 2019 14:02:24 GMT
I will be glad when this starts in a few days time and we can get back to talking about the show itself and not the politics around it.
Unfortunately I'm not there until towards the end of September.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Aug 26, 2019 14:08:31 GMT
I will be glad when this starts in a few days time and we can get back to talking about the show itself and not the politics around it. Unfortunately I'm not there until towards the end of September. Same. I keep seeing this thread pop up thinking it'll be more info on the production and then I remember it's just the same talking points being regurgitated again and again and neither side really taking any notice of the other. Everything that can be said on the topic has pretty much been said now so I don't see any point in continuing to talk about it. |
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Post by amp09 on Aug 26, 2019 14:58:30 GMT
I will be glad when this starts in a few days time and we can get back to talking about the show itself and not the politics around it. Unfortunately I'm not there until towards the end of September. Same. I keep seeing this thread pop up thinking it'll be more info on the production and then I remember it's just the same talking points being regurgitated again and again and neither side really taking any notice of the other. Everything that can be said on the topic has pretty much been said now so I don't see any point in continuing to talk about it. It is a forum, where discussion take place... |
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Post by 49thand8th on Aug 26, 2019 15:10:44 GMT
Such a slippery slope. Only gay people can play gay roles? Only Scousers in Blood Brothers? And I thought it was all acting and make believe! Do you commonly ask rhetorical questions in good faith? |
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Post by 49thand8th on Aug 26, 2019 15:11:24 GMT
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Aug 26, 2019 15:59:06 GMT
Same. I keep seeing this thread pop up thinking it'll be more info on the production and then I remember it's just the same talking points being regurgitated again and again and neither side really taking any notice of the other. Everything that can be said on the topic has pretty much been said now so I don't see any point in continuing to talk about it. It is a forum, where discussion take place... Yes and I don't think there's really anything more to discuss. Everyone has repeated the same talking points into the ground and it's just irritating now. Nobody is adding to the discussion and I'm even being a bit hypocritical here by saying any of this tbh. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Aug 26, 2019 16:11:21 GMT
I have been waiting for years to see this since I missed the last revival on Broadway.
All of this has left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, not about the play itself, but about the poor characters in it that I'd have probably cared a hell of a lot more about that are now tainted by a group of people who have nothing to do with the production.
It all reeks of sour grapes to me.
Show me a list of people who auditioned or applied to work on this production who were turned away or not hired because they were Jewish and maybe I'll be able to see what the hell they are going on about.
We live in an age where a little empowerment quickly morphs into entitlement and they all seem too blind to see it is hurting them, not helping them.
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Post by theatremadness on Aug 26, 2019 16:14:13 GMT
It just makes me laugh (and slightly cry) how simply asking for some cultural representation in the UK premier of a culturally sensitive show can cause so much backlash. Does the fact that it’s Jewish have anything to do with it, I can only wonder (not really on this board, but on wider social media).
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Post by intoanewlife on Aug 26, 2019 16:15:45 GMT
It just makes me laugh (and slightly cry) how simply asking for some cultural representation in the UK premier of a culturally sensitive show can cause so much backlash. Does the fact that it’s Jewish have anything to do with it, I can only wonder (not really on this board, but on wider social media). I had no idea what the show was even about before this. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 16:17:56 GMT
Adam Lenson has clearly put a lot of time into thinking about this, and you can only admire that (while also noting that it wouldn’t have been necessary had the initial messaging been clearer).
However, it does seem only to serve to show the apparent lack of knowledge on the part of the writers/signatories in the first place. For example, someone responds to one of Lenson’s threads by asking how you can ensure Jewish representation when you’re not allowed to ask if someone is Jewish. Which basically draws the response “there’s a wider question there I’m not going into today”. To give Lenson his due, he does venture some thoughts in another thread but makes clear he doesn’t actually know what employment law allows.
But surely that’s precisely the sort of thinking and research that should have been done before writing the initial letter. (Or if you don’t do it, your tone needs to be more conciliatory than preachy. Because why attack a production for working within the bounds of the law if it's the law itself that isn’t fit for purpose?)
I fully agree with the point that more representation and diversity equals a more rounded theatrical experience. I just think there are better, more careful, ways to express that, and that pointing out alleged “errors” requires rather more factual evidence than just “we think” and “because we said so”.
I see one of the signatories is following up with the guy who said he’d acted as cultural consultant on Falsettos. Presumably if they think his work passes muster, we’ll see an apology/acknowledgement to this production.
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Post by intoanewlife on Aug 26, 2019 16:19:33 GMT
It just makes me laugh (and slightly cry) how simply asking for some cultural representation in the UK premier of a culturally sensitive show can cause so much backlash. Does the fact that it’s Jewish have anything to do with it, I can only wonder (not really on this board, but on wider social media). I have no problem with it what so ever. But do it while the show is casting/hiring, not AFTER and just as the show is about to open. It is clearly done to tarnish the production on purpose which is really not on. |
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Post by theatremadness on Aug 26, 2019 16:21:19 GMT
It just makes me laugh (and slightly cry) how simply asking for some cultural representation in the UK premier of a culturally sensitive show can cause so much backlash. Does the fact that it’s Jewish have anything to do with it, I can only wonder (not really on this board, but on wider social media). I had no idea what the show was even about before this. I would personally say that an understanding of the show should help to understand why those who are saying what they are saying are saying it (if that makes sense). Obviously that doesn’t necessarily mean it will, but I feel my example of the recent production of The View Upstairs makes for a fair comparison to help understand telling a story by having those who the story is about, to help tell it in some way. I agree with a poster above that this debate has been going in circles somewhat, but every time someone makes a misconstruction I can’t help myself but try to explain - but some people do not want to hear. (I’m not talking about the poster I quoted) |
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Post by amp09 on Aug 26, 2019 16:23:30 GMT
It is a forum, where discussion take place... Yes and I don't think there's really anything more to discuss. Everyone has repeated the same talking points into the ground and it's just irritating now. Nobody is adding to the discussion and I'm even being a bit hypocritical here by saying any of this tbh. You can easily just avoid the thread then. I’m quite enjoying reading all the various opinions on it, and no discussion should be stopped just because one person is fed up of it. Anyway, I’ve never been to The Other Palace. Looking to get front row for this. Is the stage high/has it been for previous productions? |
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Post by theatremadness on Aug 26, 2019 16:28:41 GMT
It just makes me laugh (and slightly cry) how simply asking for some cultural representation in the UK premier of a culturally sensitive show can cause so much backlash. Does the fact that it’s Jewish have anything to do with it, I can only wonder (not really on this board, but on wider social media). I have no problem with it what so ever. But do it while the show is casting/hiring, not AFTER and just as the show is about to open. It is clearly done to tarnish the production on purpose which is really not on. I really could not be further from the truth that the group are trying to tarnish the production. Just trying to open a dialogue which, it seems, that some people do not want to hear. Adam Lenson on Twitter has talked about how the new production of Tom Stoppard’s new play Leopoldstat specified very clearly in the breakdown that they were looking for actors of Jewish heritage and that casting directors were enquiring about Jewish actors on the books of different agents. They are not looking EXCLUSIVELY looking for Jewish actors, but looking for at least SOME cultural representation. So this obviously can be done legally if the producers care to. |
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Post by xanady on Aug 26, 2019 16:33:02 GMT
Well said,mason 1991...am not into people setting own terms or agendas to serve themselves in an open-ended democratic forum...
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Post by sf on Aug 26, 2019 16:35:54 GMT
It would also be so nice if people could actually wait to see the production before making their complaints.
In most cases, yes. In this instance that misses the point, because this argument is as much about the process as anything else. It's simply about making sure members of a minority are somehow represented when a story about that minority is being told.
And in this case, it also seems to be about this particular minority group being overlooked in ways they shouldn't have been. We - quite rightly - wouldn't expect, for example, Leeds Playhouse's upcoming stage production of My Beautiful Launderette to have a cast and creative team who are entirely unrepresentative of the minority groups represented in the story. Why should Falsettos be any different?
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Post by intoanewlife on Aug 26, 2019 16:37:22 GMT
I have no problem with it what so ever. But do it while the show is casting/hiring, not AFTER and just as the show is about to open. It is clearly done to tarnish the production on purpose which is really not on. I really could not be further from the truth that the group are trying to tarnish the production. Just trying to open a dialogue which, it seems, that some people do not want to hear. Adam Lenson on Twitter has talked about how the recent production of Tom Stoppard’s Leopoldstat stater very clearly in the breakdown that they were looking for actors specifically of Jewish heritage and that casting directors were enquiring about Jewish actors on the books of different agents. They not looking EXCLUSIVELY looking for Jewish actors, but looking for at least SOME cultural representation. So this obviously can be done legally if the producers care to. There is a big difference between 'wanting' something or thinking you 'deserve' something and actually getting it. Yes it'd be nice if they'd have done that (and tbh it is pretty silly that they didn't considering the material) but does that then give someone the right to publicly shame them for not doing something that probably never even crossed their minds in the first place? |
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Post by Seriously on Aug 26, 2019 16:37:27 GMT
I'm fed up of Cameron casting people to play the Bishop of Digne in Les Mis who aren't even clergy. And I'm pretty sure Whoopi wasn't a Nun.
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Post by sf on Aug 26, 2019 16:41:54 GMT
I really could not be further from the truth that the group are trying to tarnish the production. Just trying to open a dialogue which, it seems, that some people do not want to hear. Adam Lenson on Twitter has talked about how the recent production of Tom Stoppard’s Leopoldstat stater very clearly in the breakdown that they were looking for actors specifically of Jewish heritage and that casting directors were enquiring about Jewish actors on the books of different agents. They not looking EXCLUSIVELY looking for Jewish actors, but looking for at least SOME cultural representation. So this obviously can be done legally if the producers care to. There is a big difference between 'wanting' something or thinking you 'deserve' something and actually getting it. Yes it'd be nice if they'd have done that (and tbh it is pretty silly that they didn't considering the material) but does that then give someone the right to publicly shame them for not doing something that probably never even crossed their minds in the first place?
Well... part of the problem, actually, may well be very precisely that the issue of cultural representation never crossed the producers' minds in the first place - and, as I suggested somewhere else, that it didn't cross their minds in this case when it certainly would have for, say, a revival of Bombay Dreams.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Aug 26, 2019 16:44:24 GMT
Yes and I don't think there's really anything more to discuss. Everyone has repeated the same talking points into the ground and it's just irritating now. Nobody is adding to the discussion and I'm even being a bit hypocritical here by saying any of this tbh. You can easily just avoid the thread then. I’m quite enjoying reading all the various opinions on it, and no discussion should be stopped just because one person is fed up of it. Anyway, I’ve never been to The Other Palace. Looking to get front row for this. Is the stage high/has it been for previous productions? I can't avoid the thread though because I want to see this show despite this controversy and if I avoid the thread then I may be missing information on the show that would be useful to me so instead I have to sift through the same arguments over and over. Everyone has said their piece and no one has changed their opinion on the matter as it seems in this day and age that people rarely want to have actual conversations but to just make their snarky comments and not actually listen to each other (this isn't true of everyone but it seems to often be the case) so I'd rather people be done with said comments and move on at this point. |
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