Time to say goodbye? Unclog these theatres!

[BurlyBeaR]

Time to close the Lion King and bring something new to The Lyceum. It’s just so dated. I’m sure there was a novelty factor one day but now it’s just cliche after cliche.

Unclog the Lyceum!

[unseaworthy]

Nov 11, 2024 19:56:54 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

Time to close this old thing and bring something new to The Lyceum. It’s just so dated. I’m sure there was a novelty factor one day but now it’s just cliche after cliche.

Unclog the Lyceum!

Agreed! Along with Wicked, Book of Mormon and Mamma Mia!

[BurlyBeaR]

Yaaaaas!

[danb]

Whilst it is a gorgeous theatre, it has some pretty crappy sight lines and wouldn’t be top of my list for something I really wanted to see for a decent price. I thought JCS really fitted there, especially with the onstage seating & ‘ancient ruin’ feel to it, but they were discounting the back of the dress pretty much straight away. It could really work for Aida if they would just give it a go.

[Phantom of London]

The reason all those shows are here, is because they’re tourist attractions, along with Mousetrap, Les Mis, Matilda, Harry Potter & Phantom. I have no issues with these shows remaining open and can be a guilty pleasure after Christmas, as tickets can be very cheap.

The problem with London West End it either has theatres that are too big or too small. The solution for me is to build 2 new theatres with a capacity of 1400 - 1600, London doesn’t have many theatres in this ballpark.

[danb]

…or just reduce/make flexible the capabilities of some of the existing barns. The POW is so beloved by producers for the fact that it is only on two levels as much as its perfect capacity. Thats a couple less FOH to pay for approx. 410 performances a year.

[erik24601]

Nov 11, 2024 21:35:19 GMT danb said:

…or just reduce/make flexible the capabilities of some of the existing barns. The POW is so beloved by producers for the fact that it is only on two levels as much as its perfect capacity. Thats a couple less FOH to pay for approx. 410 performances a year.

Even if you have to strap yourself into a abseiling position to get into the centre seats of the Circle, it really is a hidden gem in the West End that needs to be seen by more than the Mormonites now.

[Phantom of London]

There you go a good suggestion - roughly opposite the Prince of Wales Theatre, is the Trocadero Centre, which has always seemed neither here, nor there and is a tawdry and twee insignificance blot on the London landscape, but it is also prime real estate though, tremendous footfall, perfect location for a couple of 1300-1600 seat theatres, the 2 theatres could easily be underground like the Savoy theatre is, with a nice big entrance with escalators and lifts going down to the theatres, with what is above ground could be turned into a nice airy plaza with natural lighting and with indoor plants/trees where you can sit down in nice restaurants and coffee shops. with the aim also to be more appealing than what is there now for the non theatregoers also.

[viserys]

Should this not be its own thread instead of just a round of Lion King bashing here?

I would like to see ALL those tourist vehicles - Phantom, Les Mis, Mamma Mia, Book of Mormon, Lion King, etc - gone and have ten theatres available. Why should it be easier for random tourists from China or Brazil to see a show in London than for local/regional theatre-goers who have very little to choose from because hardly anything new can come in?

New shows either don't come at all due to lack of real estate or they have to find pretty silly solutions like Gatsby at the far too large Coliseum for a limited run or Shucked at the Open Air Theatre, also for a limited run.

I'm also guessing that the rather amazing success of Prada isn't only due to the movie's popularity or Vanessa Williams or Elton John but the simple fact that it's the ONLY new big musical in town right now during the season when many groups, friends, co-workers, etc are interested in a trip to the theatre. I was luke warm about it, but even I booked simply because there was nothing else that I was even remotely interested in.

Yes, I get the argument that "the shows are safe and thus providing safe employment" but then it's really more of a theme park than a creative arts scene.

[matttom0901]

Nov 12, 2024 6:05:26 GMT viserys said:

I would like to see ALL those tourist vehicles - Phantom, Les Mis, Mamma Mia, Book of Mormon, Lion King, etc

Let’s not leave out Wicked from this list, can that sh*t just go please 😂

I guess with the movie(s), it will be more popular than ever 🥲

In regards to Lion King, I have to say that I haven’t seen it yet. I am waiting for a NY sale and perhaps I will try this year

[fiyerorocher]

I really doubt we're going to see Wicked going anywhere anytime soon!

[BurlyBeaR]

Nov 12, 2024 6:05:26 GMT viserys said:

Should this not be its own thread instead of just a round of Lion King bashing here?

As requested!

[Someone in a tree]

Can we also evict the Mousetrap ?

[ladidah]

I don't mind those shows, it keeps tourists busy whilst I go see all the really fun and exciting shows.

[fiyerorocher]

Personally I think we're unlikely to see Les Mis close before Phantom does, and vice versa. Phantom is not that far behind Les Mis for longest running musical and I doubt it's a title Les Mis wants to lose or Phantom wants to pass up the chance to steal.

[c4ndyc4ne]

first of all, optics of starting by bashing the long-running show with a largely POC cast is a bit..... ick

secondly, these shows are huge tourist traps and a gateway for people to discover new work - and, importantly, they can keep the big theatres filled.

i get that a theatreboard will always pine for 'new', but it's worth taking a broader perspective.

[SilverFox]

Nov 12, 2024 2:41:40 GMT Phantom of London said:

There you go a good suggestion - roughly opposite the Prince of Wales Theatre, is the Trocadero Centre, which has always seemed neither here, nor there and is a tawdry and twee insignificance blot on the London landscape, but it is also prime real estate though, tremendous footfall, perfect location for a couple of 1300-1600 seat theatres, the 2 theatres could easily be underground like the Savoy theatre is, with a nice big entrance with escalators and lifts going down to the theatres, with what is above ground could be turned into a nice airy plaza with natural lighting and with indoor plants/trees where you can sit down in nice restaurants and coffee shops. with the aim also to be more appealing than what is there now for the non theatregoers also.

Just a technical point - the Savoy Theatre is not underground - it is on a hill and in 1903, an entrance next to the Savoy Hotel was created at upper circle level, becoming the main entrance (switched from Carting Lane) when the interior was rebuilt in 1929.

Google streetview

The Criterion is the only true underground West End theatre. Interestingly this feature was promoted as a safety design as people were less like to be injured running upstairs, than downstairs. Not sure if that would have worked TBH!

The Queens Theatre was given a makeover in 2019 when it was renamed the Sondheim. There was a far more radical rebuilding plan proposed which removed both balconies and replaced them with a single larger balcony to give a two tier house like the PoW. This was to be done very much in the style of W G R Sprague (the original architect), retaining the style of the plasterwork, boxes, ceiling etc, expanding the auditorium into redundant corridors, and increasing the capacity into the mid-range of West End theatres. The notious 'letterbox' view from the rear stalls would have been improved by raising the height of the single circle.

[andypandy]

Nov 11, 2024 19:56:54 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

Time to close the Lion King and bring something new to The Lyceum. It’s just so dated. I’m sure there was a novelty factor one day but now it’s just cliche after cliche.

Unclog the Lyceum!

This post is ridiculous. For thousands of people it is still their first time seeing Lion King. Your dated is someone's new. 

Plus, theatre is a business just like an airline or hotel - if long runners like Les Mis, Mamma Mia, Mormon, Wicked, Phantom and Lion King make money they will stay open. If they fail to make money for a long period of time (or the producers can't prop them up with other productions) they will close. It's simple maths. 

Plus, very few shows pass the 3 or 5 year mark these days. We should be grateful of these long runners for giving jobs to thousands of people over the years. 

There are plenty of other theatres that accommodate shorter running shows with 1-3 year runs like the Prince Edward, Haymarket, Palladium, Dominiom, Lyric, Garrick, Noel Coward etc.

I think we would all be complaining if every single show closed after 12-18 months!

[usbuzzer]

Nov 12, 2024 10:04:18 GMT andypandy said:

Nov 11, 2024 19:56:54 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

Time to close the Lion King and bring something new to The Lyceum. It’s just so dated. I’m sure there was a novelty factor one day but now it’s just cliche after cliche.

Unclog the Lyceum!

This post is ridiculous. For thousands of people it is still their first time seeing Lion King. Your dated is someone's new. 

Plus, theatre is a business just like an airline or hotel - if long runners like Les Mis, Mamma Mia, Mormon, Wicked, Phantom and Lion King make money they will stay open. If they fail to make money for a long period of time (or the producers can't prop them up with other productions) they will close. It's simple maths. 

Plus, very few shows pass the 3 or 5 year mark these days. We should be grateful of these long runners for giving jobs to thousands of people over the years. 

There are plenty of other theatres that accommodate shorter running shows with 1-3 year runs like the Prince Edward, Haymarket, Palladium, Dominiom, Lyric, Garrick, Noel Coward etc.

I think we would all be complaining if every single show closed after 12-18 months!

I agree! We shouldn't look at it from a small number of frequent theatre-goers, try to look at the big picture.

I had an interesting conversation with general-audience friends recently. Even though they've seen 5+ musicals, their favorite is by far Phantom of the Opera. For me, a fan, this is boring and dated and there are tons of more exciting musicals. But it gives you a perspective on what people actually love and it usually doesn't go with what us, fans, prefer.

My perspective is: we have a lot of London theatres. I travel to London strictly for theatre once a year and there's always more new shows to check out than I have time for. If there are a few stable tourist-favorites, but also always a lot of new shows in town, how does it hurt anybody? Especially these are not bad shows by any means. They're just been there forever and that their only fault. I think it's healthy that we have them as a representation of what a proper big-budget musical is, but also from the industry perspective, it's a sign to the producers that theatre can actually be profitable. If we get rid of cash-cows, producers would need to risk more and maybe at some point they would figure, that the formula is not working anymore, so theatre could be in danger.

As previously said, it's there because it sells. Let them be, we have plenty of other theatres for new shows to go to.

[forfivemoreminutes]

The Lion King is primarily a show targeted to family audiences, other than Matilda there aren’t really any other shows aimed at children on at the moment - I’d much rather parents take their kids there than have them sat behind me at a show where they’ll just get bored and chatty. There has to be a variation in the programming on at all the theatres, not everything will be for everyone and that’s ok

[blamerobots]

Nov 11, 2024 21:21:23 GMT Phantom of London said:

The problem with London West End it either has theatres that are too big or too small. The solution for me is to build 2 new theatres with a capacity of 1400 - 1600, London doesn’t have many theatres in this ballpark.

I think that solution is a bit like adding lanes on a motorway; it won't reduce traffic. It'd likely be another venue that could "clog up" for ages, much like what happens at the Palace or the other middle of the road venues. Also, conjuring up free land in central London is impossible, especially in the West End!! Hence why there's big theatres now appearing off-West End and such.

A lot of these long-running toursit-y shows all sit in the mid-sized venues which can break even, even with the place half full. It's not like a big barn like TRDL or the Colesium which has comparatively short runs because they simply can't sell out those big places consistently.

I suppose an amendment to your solution would be to build theatres evenly around London of those size; ones still accessible by train at least that can hold these big shows and de-centralise producers flinging shows into that area we call the "West End".

Otherwise, the one thing I agree with Patti Lupone on is that there should be term limits on judges, senators and musicals... a 10 year run is the longest I'd give before I beg to see something else!

[blamerobots]

Also, another solution to the fear of shows disappearing is for producers to please, PLEASE be more open to the idea of releasing accessible professionally shot video versions of their productions. Disney is catching onto this and I bet that Lion King would make as much money on STREAMING than in person. 

For every 1 person who will go through deciding to go by train to London or fly, and pay for the Lion King with those ticket prices, there are at least 10 people who would pay for/who already have Disney+ that would watch it on a whim and make producers and those actors that passive income.

[bigredapple]

Please get rid of Harry Potter. Surely nobody enjoys that anymore? It’s so 2000s and overdone

[barrowside]

I remember passing the Lyceum on my first trip to London in the late 1980s and it was boarded up and derelict so even though I'm not particularly interested in seeing The Lion King it's great to see the theatre saved, restored and busy. I think any new larger theatres will be out of the central West End like the new theatre at Olympia. Potential sites in town I can think of are The Saville, The Hippodrome (put a theatre back in the Matcham auditorium) and as another poster suggested The Trocadero (wasn't part of the Trocadero complex the London Pavilion Cinema though I expect the auditorium has been gutted).

[forfivemoreminutes]

Also not sure how many people are aware of the Lion King Cub Academy but they offer a free training programme for a handful of kids each year to potentially be in the show. Even if they don’t get into the cast it’s still an excellent opportunity especially for kids who’s parents maybe can’t afford to send them to theatre school