Evita

[BGLowe]

Aug 6, 2017 23:35:51 GMT jgblunners said:

Aug 6, 2017 23:16:33 GMT AliceFearnFan2212 said:

They haven't changed it... They've just lowered it for Emma

It believe that they haven't changed the key of A New Argentina, but Emma is singing those sustained high phrases (he supports you, etc.) an octave down. I'm sure there are people who know the show and it's history better than me, but I think that it is not uncommon for actresses to do this since those phrases are some of the highest in the score.

I saw it on Thursday with Natalie Langston and I don't think she and it sang it at the higher octave. I was quite underwhelmed with that bit tbh - think Madonna did it better (ducks for cover).

[ali973]

Aug 6, 2017 23:35:51 GMT jgblunners said:

Aug 6, 2017 23:16:33 GMT AliceFearnFan2212 said:

They haven't changed it... They've just lowered it for Emma

It believe that they haven't changed the key of A New Argentina, but Emma is singing those sustained high phrases (he supports you, etc.) an octave down. 

Oh. No. They. Did. Not. 

Call Seth Rudetsky PRONTO. 

[Scswp]

Aug 6, 2017 20:35:52 GMT @finefineline said:

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here with a burning question: why were the keys lowered in this production?

When I saw the first preview I was disappointed to discover that Eva's parts in 'A New Argentina' ('He supports you/For he loves you...') have been transposed down to (most likely) Madonna's key.

Madalena Alberto sang the score as written a few years back at the Dominion. And I know that when she used to do it on tour, the last chorus of the song would always be sung in the original key.

Why change it? Is it even legal to alter the score in a professional West End production? I wonder if Lord Andrew is aware of the changes being made.

I've mentioned these changes on here before, I think. The first two sections are sung a whole octave down and the whole song becomes incredibly underwhelming. It has been done this way for a long time though. Many Evas, including Abi Jaye, Rachael Wooding and even Louise Dearman did it this way. Somebody even replied to my initial post saying that Elaine Paige often did it this way back in the seventies.

This song is supposed to be the stirring Act I climax, but it certainly doesn't feel that way given these changes. I'd rather them slightly lower the key for the whole song, but have Eva's lines sung upwards (perhaps matching the slightly lower key of the line 'I'm Only a Radio Star...' earlier in the act (in 'The Art of the Possible' song).

I guess the change is to protect the voice of the actress playing Eva. The suggestion I made above works better musically, I think, but it probably takes time, expense and permission rights to transpose a whole song. The song is still sung as written at the moment (albeit an octave down here and there) so requires no permission rights or expense to sing it in the way that they are currently doing.

[ali973]

msh- fully agreed. I'd rather they bring the entire thing down and Eva to belt it upwards. Or they can simply hire Evas who can, instead of Eva's who can't.

Now that I think of it, I recall listening to a recording of Louise sing it downwards and I was like what kind of fudgery is this? I'm going to have a field day seeing this show.

Makes me lament those good old days when our fabulous diva mothers sang Evita. Stephanie Lawrence, Siobhan McCarthy, Kathryn Evans, Patti LuPone..The recent Broadway revival hasn't been any better with their choices of Evita either. You open up an alternate Eva bio and the first credit is Glinda in Wicked. Erm, no!

[BurlyBeaR]

3:00

(wasn't she fabulous?)

[Scswp]

Aug 7, 2017 5:52:25 GMT ali973 said:

msh- fully agreed. I'd rather they bring the entire thing down and Eva to belt it upwards. Or they can simply hire Evas who can, instead of Eva's who can't.

Now that I think of it, I recall listening to a recording of Louise sing it downwards and I was like what kind of fudgery is this? I'm going to have a field day seeing this show.

Makes me lament those good old days when our fabulous diva mothers sang Evita. Stephanie Lawrence, Siobhan McCarthy, Kathryn Evans, Patti LuPone..The recent Broadway revival hasn't been any better with their choices of Evita either. You open up an alternate Eva bio and the first credit is Glinda in Wicked. Erm, no!

I agree about the diva mothers - including Rebecca Storm and Jacqui Scott on the UK tours - they were great too!

[ali973]

I had no idea Rebecca Storm was in the tour. She sounded amazing in the Chess tour.

[Scswp]

Rebecca Storm was in the first UK tour, I think (as was Kathryn Evans - or at least for part of it). Rebecca Storm was, indeed, very good in Chess too.

[theatremadness]

Who wouldn't want 15 minutes of belting A New Argentina from a multitude of Eva's all in one video? Of course you do, you're only human!

[Deleted]

Well Patti quite simply is Evita isn't she? I can imagine her as the head of a dictatorship in South America somewhere anywhere.

Woe betide anyone who tries to stop her. She'd rip your throat out.

LOVE her!

[jgblunners]

Aug 7, 2017 10:32:24 GMT theatremadness said:

Who wouldn't want 15 minutes of belting A New Argentina from a multitude of Eva's all in one video? Of course you do, you're only human!

Well, looks like taking it down the octave is less common than I thought it was! Whoever said it before was right, it completely loses the thrill and impact when it's not sung it that high octave.

(also I've never seen or heard the film version but from that short clip it's quite shocking how far down it was transposed for Madonna)

[BurlyBeaR]

Judging by that lot, most of them SHOULD have taken it down because about 80% of them made my ears bleed.

There's certainly plenty of attack though, I suppose you just have to go for it with everything you've got, and hope for the best. What was it Patti said about ALW hating women for writing that score? 

Say what you like about Madonna, there was no-one who could have carried that movie off back then, and there's no one who could carry it off today. The fact that she won the Golden Globe but didn't even get nommed for the Oscar just shows the academy up for the dreadful bias against her. She was robbed. 

[Deleted]

I think they took the entire score down for Madge didn't they? She really does look the part but as an actress she's as wooden as a floorboard and vocally she's pretty rotten. The film looks gorgeous though. Would have been interesting to have had original choices Meryl Streep or Michelle Pfeiffer in the role. The score would have been adjusted for both of them too of course.

[SageStageMgr]

LOVE Madonna in the movie. She's brilliant.

It's very easy to be snobbish about her in this, but Streep/Streisand would've been intolerable for me personally.

Banderas is also terrific, then the outstanding supporting performances from Jonathan Pryce, Peter Poly, even Jimmy Nail(!). It's a joy

[Deleted]

Aug 7, 2017 11:59:40 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

Say what you like about Madonna, there was no-one who could have carried that movie off back then, and there's no one who could carry it off today. The fact that she won the Golden Globe but didn't even get nommed for the Oscar just shows the academy up for the dreadful bias against her. She was robbed.

She really wasn't. The award is Best Actress, Madge can't act. She sang the score perfectly well but she's completely dead behind the eyes. There was only mediocre acting talent on show there. And there was no way that she was better than or as good as Frances McDormand, Brenda Blethyn, Diane Keaton, Kristin Scott Thomas or Emily Watson.

[BurlyBeaR]

I totally disagree. That's the only acting performance she's ever given where she WAS good.

As for Emily What? Frances McWho? And Brenda Blethyn, great at crying but that's about your lot

[SageStageMgr]

Ryan, that list was a veritable 'who's that' of Hollywood.

I think Greta Garbo should've won.

[ptwest]

Agreed - she was good In Evita. Usually her acting career is something that as a fan I like to pretend doesn't exist but this is one I can watch!

[Deleted]

I love that 15-minute compilation, watched it yesterday just before I posted^^

Below is the lowered version, sung by Louise Dearman on tour (currently the West End Evas don't even attempt to sing the last chorus the way it was written, unlike Ms Dearman):



I'm sure there's more than enough ladies in the West End who would nail this part vocally. Shame they don't have the chance to do that.

[Also, Mods – feel free to delete the link from my post if it violates the rules of the forum. Thanks]

[theatremadness]

Aug 7, 2017 11:28:34 GMT jgblunners said:

Aug 7, 2017 10:32:24 GMT theatremadness said:

Who wouldn't want 15 minutes of belting A New Argentina from a multitude of Eva's all in one video? Of course you do, you're only human!

Well, looks like taking it down the octave is less common than I thought it was! Whoever said it before was right, it completely loses the thrill and impact when it's not sung it that high octave.

(also I've never seen or heard the film version but from that short clip it's quite shocking how far down it was transposed for Madonna)

So from what I can gather, that particular passage that is repeated in that clip is where most Eva's will sing it up the octave, as you'd expect. That "he supports you" phrase is heard twice (I think) in A New Argentina before you get to that final one, and it's there I believe that most Eva's keep it down the octave, ever since the Kenwright production started, anyhow. I'm sure it's to preserve their voice so as to not sing that hard phrase 3 times in quick succession.

I know I quoted you jgblunners but the rest is just my opinion, not directed and you or anyone! haha. No one bar no one has the robust vocal stamina of Patti LuPone so in my eyes, it's a little unfair to compare. We were spoiled with her being one of the very first!!

I saw the tour twice, one with Emma Hatton and once with Natalie Langston. I could've sworn that they both followed that pattern in A New Argentina: first 2 high phrases sung down the octave, final one sung up. However, when I saw it in London last week, Emma sang down the octave the whole time. So I'm not sure, it could be a show-by-show basis. Seth Rudetsky once said that Patti LuPone had said that she knew if she was going to have a good vocal show by "screw the middle classes", so I'm sure the women know their own voices well enough to know what they have to do to get through Evita!

And moving onto the other conversation about Madonna, I started watching the film a couple of nights ago for the very first time. It's really enjoyable and well made with great performances, Madge included in my opinion. They obviously needed her to carry the film off and that she did. It's a very understated performance and let's not forget that Eva was not a nice person by any means. I don't think Madge plays it wooden, but more ruthless. I really don't care that the keys were transposed for her. It works much better on film to not have her belting her tits off and the lower keys help establish Madonna's more subtle take on the role. The supporting cast are also great, some of the song changes are a little weird but it all works in the end.

[Deleted]

Aug 7, 2017 12:25:07 GMT SageStageMgr said:

Ryan, that list was a veritable 'who's that' of Hollywood.

I think Greta Garbo should've won.

Ummmm, OK. I'd think the 12 Oscar nominations between them would suggest that this wasn't the case but hey ho.

[Deleted]

I first saw Evita at the Dominion in 2014 and hated, and I mean HATED it.

Marti Pellow was on for Che, and every single line he mumbled to the floor, I never managed to understand an entire sentence, from time to time I'd catch an "Evita" or a "Peron" and that was it. I had to look at Wikipedia afterwards to work out what I'd just seen; the synopsis was littered with things like "Che explains to the audience" or "Che reveals" and as I'd spent 2 and a half hours watching him walk backwards down stairs while making incoherent noises, the show might as well have been about a rich woman who goes on holiday to Buenos Aires and spends the vast majority of act 2 dying painfully slowly.

Madalena had a lovely voice but the set design, the sound design and the general feel of the piece was abysmal, and I assured myself that as long as I lived I'd never go and see Evita again.

I've heard some good things about this production though and I gather it's quite different to the Dominion one? I remember West End Wilma gave that 1 star but I'm seeing lots of 4 and 5 stars reviews this time around, and I was wondering if it's worth going to see it again now that nobody with any connection to the 2014 production is there any more. People's thoughts are very welcome.

[TallPaul]

One of the reasons that Marti left Wet Wet Wet was so he could throw himself into his acting career!

[SageStageMgr]

Don't be fooled, Martello.

This production originated in Liverpool in 2008. It then toured for about three years in the U.K. and abroad. Then reopened, being basically identical and doing a stint in town.

Now the same production is touring again. The sets are same, the direction is the same (with the odd change here and there, but nothing your average punter would notice), the lighting design is the same, it's all the same. The cast is the one thing that actually changes between "productions".

This production is identical to the one you saw in 2014, unless you find looking at differently stitched costumes, new paper props or the altered placement of three par cans to be a "new production".

I'm not knocking Kenwright for this, if it works and sells, why change it. But it's the same as the original BKP production from 9 years ago. It's a new production in name only.

Considering that, you'd probably hate it.

[BurlyBeaR]

I don't know why there's so much hate for the design, especially if you compare it to most of the ones in the 15 minute clip from earlier today.