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Post by theatreloverlondon on Dec 19, 2023 14:03:38 GMT
I sort of see where you’re coming from. Especially in the first act I wasn’t sold on her acting- not acting through song necessarily but the acting. I also found the twerking bits a bit forced and some of the close up shots pouting to the camera a bit cringe. To me, she is no Oscar winning actress but I did leave the show thinking wow, the Olivier has to be hers, what a beast. What she does up there is not easy. Rachel Tucker also does the pouting and looks to camera - that's how Lloyd has directed them, I suspect. Ooo that’s interesting! It just didn’t land with me, it felt like it was done to try and be funny, it didn’t feel authentic despite Norma being a somewhat eccentric character. At the same time, it very much aligned with Nicole’s personality and public persona so I can’t even imagine Rachel doing it!! |
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Post by lolaluffneggle on Dec 19, 2023 14:37:11 GMT
The pouting might be cringey but I think it’s kind of the point, very much fits the Norma character JL is trying to portray. Norma is obsessed with herself.
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Post by punxsutawney on Dec 19, 2023 15:26:03 GMT
I don't have an issue with the pouting and the looks to camera, personally, I just felt that - at least when I saw it - Nicole's acting crossed a line where it went from a camp but serious performance to something that belonged more in a pantomime. It's a shame because she was vocally astonishing and deserves all her flowers on that front, but the acting performance didn't match for me.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 19, 2023 16:18:04 GMT
All of the Norma’s, right back to Gloria Swanson, have demonstrated weird characteristics or ticks whether they were facial expressions, camp mannerisms or the way they spoke. NS is just doing the same but an up to date version.
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Post by theatreloverlondon on Dec 19, 2023 16:29:32 GMT
I don't have an issue with the pouting and the looks to camera, personally, I just felt that - at least when I saw it - Nicole's acting crossed a line where it went from a camp but serious performance to something that belonged more in a pantomime. It's a shame because she was vocally astonishing and deserves all her flowers on that front, but the acting performance didn't match for me. Yessss exactly that. But then again following from what BurlyBear said, I listen to the Sunset Boulevard OLCR with Patti Lupone who I adore and her delivery of many lines is… unnatural to say the least. So maybe it’s how it was written 💁🏼♀️ |
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Post by punxsutawney on Dec 19, 2023 16:58:45 GMT
I don't have an issue with the pouting and the looks to camera, personally, I just felt that - at least when I saw it - Nicole's acting crossed a line where it went from a camp but serious performance to something that belonged more in a pantomime. It's a shame because she was vocally astonishing and deserves all her flowers on that front, but the acting performance didn't match for me. Yessss exactly that. But then again following from what BurlyBear said, I listen to the Sunset Boulevard OLCR with Patti Lupone who I adore and her delivery of many lines is… unnatural to say the least. So maybe it’s how it was written 💁🏼♀️ I'm sure it was to an extent, but it's written to be that way within the world of the show. Norma is eccentric, camp, and losing her mind, but that's all contained within the show. With Nicole's performance, it very much felt like she was playing directly to the audience for laughs, akin to a panto as I said before. It was so much the case that multiple people around me were laughing at entirely serious points, such as the ending of the show, because Nicole's performance seemed to encourage them to find everything comical and as if it was being played for laughs. |
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Post by 141920grm on Dec 19, 2023 17:45:36 GMT
I find it quite curious most of the complaints about Nicole are her acting/mannerisms being 'cringe'/'forced'/'hamming too much'. How can that possibly be a negative when it's literally what Norma does? She's so desperate to be accepted into the fold again she adopts generalisations of 'cool'- unironically using once-trendy phrases and mannerisms, playing to the audience which she thinks will win them over- which everyone else finds rather sad and cringe and therefore mocks her behind her back.
Personally it's why Nicole's performance hits so hard- if, by finding her slightly embarrassing and not acting her age, we the audience are then also part of the group shunning her- she makes me feel genuine pity every show, witnessing her Norma spiralling as the show goes on. I daresay if you found Nicole so 'cringe' you couldn't consider her acting 'Acting' (if there even is a single definition for that), it was exactly what the direction intended and why I found her so brilliant in this production- such seamless and natural acting, her Norma becomes relevant to both the book's era and the so-called TikTok era.
I think some of us here have been overly distracted by the twerking/pouting/finger-snapping, that's simply the direction weaving in and out of the 2 eras (book/present). Incorporating recent trends and having Nicole being able to demonstrate them so well was genius, yes it's very 'in the now' and the TikTokers might love it, but this dynamic is also part of the direction and not just for show hype. Maybe that's why this production resonates more successfully with certain generations than others. It's not simply having Nicole twerk for the sake of having her twerk, but to show she's clearly overdoing it in her attempt to be relevant again. It certainly wouldn't work in the traditional staging, but it's very effective in this fantastically reimagined production.
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Post by steve10086 on Dec 19, 2023 18:35:02 GMT
Yessss exactly that. But then again following from what BurlyBear said, I listen to the Sunset Boulevard OLCR with Patti Lupone who I adore and her delivery of many lines is… unnatural to say the least. So maybe it’s how it was written 💁🏼♀️ I'm sure it was to an extent, but it's written to be that way within the world of the show. Norma is eccentric, camp, and losing her mind, but that's all contained within the show. With Nicole's performance, it very much felt like she was playing directly to the audience for laughs, akin to a panto as I said before. It was so much the case that multiple people around me were laughing at entirely serious points, such as the ending of the show, because Nicole's performance seemed to encourage them to find everything comical and as if it was being played for laughs. It totally feels like playing up to the audience in the theatre and is not at all in character, and for me it disrespects and cheapens the character of Norma. She may be delusional now but she really was a major star - I can’t believe Nicole’s version ever was. I also feel that the long note in AIWNSG is also playing up to the audience. When Elaine Paige added it really lifted the song and added a great dramatic moment. I feel in this production that Lloyd is actually taking the piss out of how that long note has become a “show off” moment for the actress playing Norma, which I agree to some extent that is has. But I really do feel Lloyd doesn’t like this show. If he could get away with it he’d replace all the songs with his ridiculous slowed down dialogue. |
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Dec 19, 2023 20:02:15 GMT
I can't wait for Ms Scherzinger to win the Olivier Award for Best Actress in a Musical and it will be much deserved. She's terrific in the role.
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Post by ceebee on Dec 19, 2023 21:09:27 GMT
From pouting to sprouting, this thread has it all.
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Post by happysooz2 on Dec 19, 2023 22:49:15 GMT
Re all the complaints about Nicole’s stuff to camera. Not sure m(any) of you ever see Instagram Influencers go live, but the amount of eye-f***ing of themselves that goes on is insane. I wonder if Norma’s moments to camera are also a bit of a comment on that (plus the silent movie star stuff.)
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Post by steve10086 on Dec 19, 2023 23:00:07 GMT
Re all the complaints about Nicole’s stuff to camera. Not sure m(any) of you ever see Instagram Influencers go live, but the amount of eye-f***ing of themselves that goes on is insane. I wonder if Norma’s moments to camera are also a bit of a comment on that (plus the silent movie star stuff.) Exactly, Norma Desmond, an undeniable “star”, has been given all the mannerisms of a talentless nobody. Go figure. |
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Post by theatreloverlondon on Dec 19, 2023 23:41:02 GMT
Re all the complaints about Nicole’s stuff to camera. Not sure m(any) of you ever see Instagram Influencers go live, but the amount of eye-f***ing of themselves that goes on is insane. I wonder if Norma’s moments to camera are also a bit of a comment on that (plus the silent movie star stuff.) I definitely have but it’s not about that. It’s that I didn’t believe the ‘cringe’ was authenticity Norma. It felt like she was *trying* to be OTT. When she twerked it felt like she was trying to make the audience laugh as opposed to her just existing. |
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Post by theatreloverlondon on Dec 19, 2023 23:42:11 GMT
Re all the complaints about Nicole’s stuff to camera. Not sure m(any) of you ever see Instagram Influencers go live, but the amount of eye-f***ing of themselves that goes on is insane. I wonder if Norma’s moments to camera are also a bit of a comment on that (plus the silent movie star stuff.) I definitely have but it’s not about that. It’s that I didn’t believe the ‘cringe’ was authenticity Norma. It felt like she was *trying* to be OTT. When she twerked it felt like she was trying to make the audience laugh as opposed to her just existing. |
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Post by iamluisfelipe on Dec 19, 2023 23:54:43 GMT
Nicole did a new interview with Take That and when Gary Barlow asked what's next for her, she said "we'll see what's on the horizon for sunset boulevard". Gary replied "so, no news?" and she said "there's some news, things are cooking..." Gary then said "I think big things are coming... in the big appl- big places" and they all laughed.
Its pretty much confirmed at this point, now I just need the cast recording with the London cast.
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Post by chernjam on Dec 20, 2023 2:42:00 GMT
Nicole did a new interview with Take That and when Gary Barlow asked what's next for her, she said "we'll see what's on the horizon for sunset boulevard". Gary replied "so, no news?" and she said "there's some news, things are cooking..." Gary then said "I think big things are coming... in the big appl- big places" and they all laughed. Its pretty much confirmed at this point, now I just need the cast recording with the London cast. Seeing how there's a handful of seats available per performance left, I suppose they want to end on a high note. My guess if a recording is coming they're doing it right after the run ends on Jan 6th? (Kind of like they did with Sunday in the Park with George with Jake Gyllenhal) As for NY - while I'm eager to see it, kind of surprised that people want to rush it in this season |
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Post by toomasj on Dec 20, 2023 3:11:04 GMT
I just think some of the comments here are way OTT. She’s given a very well received performance playing an exaggerated version of herself in her second ever theatre credit. She’s not suddenly Angela Lansbury.
For comparison and contrast, I really like seeing Sheridan Smith. I enjoyed her performance in Joseph, but I can understand why many wouldn’t. Much like Scherzinger’s performance in this, it’s so close to pantomime in style, with the nudges and winks and mugging to the audience that it does distract from the show a little. It worked for me because I think she’s great - as many clearly do here with Scherzinger. The difference for me is Smith has got a lot more credits on stage and screen, and Scherzinger is primarily known outside of a pop group a decade ago for being a judge on a talent show prior to this.
I understand the excitement, but I am dubious about some of the comments like “breaking new ground”, “iconic”, “legendary”. She’s the hot name right now, but this does happen all the time. Kerry Ellis was a (relative, in theatre terms) superstar in her Wicked days. Elena Roger was smashing every part she was in and absolutely everywhere for a while. The list is endless.
Like I said previously, if she were now to go on and have a solid 10-15 year run of great and varied performances (not playing herself) in different styles with nuance and variety, I’ll take it all back.
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Post by 141920grm on Dec 20, 2023 7:32:39 GMT
Back to this show, I have several questions that perhaps the überfans could answer? (And I’m not being salty, I’d consider myself the equivalent for Next to Normal, or Les Mis, or Phantom pre-closure). Idk if I'm the most über of fans but I love the design of this show so I'll bite. Haven't seen Jamie Lloyd's other work but if he uses his 'tropes' whenever it makes sense for his other productions like they do here, then I can't see why having and using a signature style is bad. Lining up vertically: Everyone having grievances to air, but having to wait in line for their turn to voice them. ('Let's Have Lunch') Lining up horizontally: Everyone equally desperate to be heard, so what better formation for the final chorus following the (literally) sequential introduction? Also can't beat that wonderful wall of sound it creates. ('Let's Have Lunch') With such an array of named ensemble characters, a genius way to show who's interacting with who by only having the 2 stood singing while everyone else sits awaiting their moment while inkeeping with the minimalist blocking. ('Every Movie's A Circus') Impressive (and really satisfying) visuals during the domino effect down the line, e.g. flailing Normas ('Finale'), or when the singular line dissolves into an intricate dance sequence and melds back into a perfect line at the next verse. ('Let's Have Lunch') Norma's bare feet: Vulnerability, and also she's at home. Sure some scenes she's at Paramount, but she also thinks that's home. Artie's close-ups: How else would they make everyone see that single tear running down his face? Jokes aside, he's the one that brings the undercurrent of unease for Betty so he visually looms at times. His close-ups (in contrast to Max's) don't intimidate at all just like his character. IMO one of the weaker uses of the camera concept but they have the whole rig and feed set up- why not have more use out of it. Max's close-ups: Looming, behind-the-scenes orchestrator- Thaxton's demeanour is perfect for it, in fact I want him to be even creepier. As there's no set to give a sense of scale for his lurking, the full-screen close-ups work great (e.g. Max going 'Where have you been?') It amuses yes, but also manages to startle since the stage isn't dark enough for Max to materialise from the shadows. Apple devices: It's obvious this production isn't overly concerned with being period-appropriate (see: twerking, doing the robot) so once the audience grasps that the show straddles both book and present-era, they'll understand that the athleisure outfits and accessories aren't meant to be making a statement- simply part of the not-anchored-in-time concept. |
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Post by toomasj on Dec 20, 2023 8:00:33 GMT
Thank you for your reply.
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Dec 20, 2023 11:53:08 GMT
For comparison and contrast, I really like seeing Sheridan Smith. I enjoyed her performance in Joseph, but I can understand why many wouldn’t. Much like Scherzinger’s performance in this, it’s so close to pantomime in style, with the nudges and winks and mugging to the audience that it does distract from the show a little. It worked for me because I think she’s great - as many clearly do here with Scherzinger. The difference for me is Smith has got a lot more credits on stage and screen, and Scherzinger is primarily known outside of a pop group a decade ago for being a judge on a talent show prior to this. What do previous credits have to do with anything? If someone is fantastic in a role, as Scherzinger is in this production, previous credits mean nothing. It's the coming together of a star, a director and the right show, at the right time, that makes this production magic, as evidenced by the majority of people on here. Did you disregard Lea Salonga when she opened in Miss Saigon, because she didn't have 10-15 years of rep. behind her? Are you really comparing Sheridan in Joseph to Nicole in Sunset Blvd? Sheridan couldn't sing the score, she mugged her way through the show to try and hide that she couldnt sing it, and played it 110% to the back wall of the upper circle. There were no risks involved. You knew what you were going to get. Scherzinger has come out in an iconic role and totally made it her own, There were risks in her doing it and it could have been just laughed off the stage. Instead it's the biggest hit of the year. This production obviously wasn't for you, you hated it before you even saw it. Let people enjoy it without the incessant need to repeat your dislike for the production, over and over. |
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Post by fiyero on Dec 20, 2023 12:14:21 GMT
Has anyone noticed what time this has been finishing for an evening performance recently? I'm going again next Wednesday and just found out my nice comfy 23:05 train has been cancelled! (I know its live theatre and could differ anyway but trying to get an idea of being ready to dash for the 22:30 or saunter to the 23:30!)
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Post by meister on Dec 20, 2023 12:32:07 GMT
Has anyone noticed what time this has been finishing for an evening performance recently? I'm going again next Wednesday and just found out my nice comfy 23:05 train has been cancelled! (I know it’s live theatre and could differ anyway but trying to get an idea of being ready to dash for the 22:30 or saunter to the 23:30!) Finished last night at 22:07 and I had to dash to get the 22:30 from Waterloo - so missed the curtain calls! Fortunately I was on the end of a row. PS.What’s the young Norma standing on stage for 10 minutes before it starts all about? |
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Post by fiyero on Dec 20, 2023 12:43:29 GMT
Has anyone noticed what time this has been finishing for an evening performance recently? I'm going again next Wednesday and just found out my nice comfy 23:05 train has been cancelled! (I know it’s live theatre and could differ anyway but trying to get an idea of being ready to dash for the 22:30 or saunter to the 23:30!) Finished last night at 22:07 and I had to dash to get the 22:30 from Waterloo - so missed the curtain calls! Fortunately I was on the end of a row. PS.What’s the young Norma standing on stage for 10 minutes before it starts all about? eeek. I am front row and near the door but hate leaving before the final note usually! |
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Post by steve10086 on Dec 20, 2023 12:52:32 GMT
Let people enjoy it without the incessant need to repeat your dislike for the production, over and over. It always comes down to this on this board. The people who love a show try to shout down those who don’t. There is no discussion because people “must be left to enjoy it” (whatever that means!). |
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Post by theatrefan62 on Dec 20, 2023 13:01:56 GMT
Let people enjoy it without the incessant need to repeat your dislike for the production, over and over. It always comes down to this on this board. The people who love a show try to shout down those who don’t. There is no discussion because people “must be left to enjoy it” (whatever that means!). I agree. There are certain shows that are gatekeeped and heaven forbid you disagree. You're obviously wrong. And on the flipside if you enjoy a show that certain people don't, you're the one in the wrong. |
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