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Post by bobbievanhusen on Dec 19, 2023 2:32:54 GMT
For the first time in my life I have sold some theatre tickets. Was booked for Sunset this coming Thursday, but having been so impressed by Rachel Tucker 2 weeks ago I just could not face Scherzinger again. I can’t buy her as Norma Desmond at all, and all the twerking and finger snapping is cheap and classless. Relieved I won’t have to hear her impression of a foghorn again during AIWNSG.
I'm guessing the 2nd performance was booked before you saw the first?
At least the tickets will go to people who want to be there and will appreciate being able to see it again.
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Post by steve10086 on Dec 19, 2023 7:07:50 GMT
For the first time in my life I have sold some theatre tickets. Was booked for Sunset this coming Thursday, but having been so impressed by Rachel Tucker 2 weeks ago I just could not face Scherzinger again. I can’t buy her as Norma Desmond at all, and all the twerking and finger snapping is cheap and classless. Relieved I won’t have to hear her impression of a foghorn again during AIWNSG.
I'm guessing the 2nd performance was booked before you saw the first?
At least the tickets will go to people who want to be there and will appreciate being able to see it again.
Originally booked 2 performances with Scherzinger when tickets first went on sale. Went to the first of those, then decided to see Tucker so booked a performance with her. Enjoyed that so much that a return visit for Scherzinger lost its appeal. And I am glad someone will use the tickets and hopefully enjoy it more than I would. |
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Post by steve10086 on Dec 19, 2023 7:11:45 GMT
For the first time in my life I have sold some theatre tickets. Was booked for Sunset this coming Thursday, but having been so impressed by Rachel Tucker 2 weeks ago I just could not face Scherzinger again. I can’t buy her as Norma Desmond at all, and all the twerking and finger snapping is cheap and classless. Relieved I won’t have to hear her impression of a foghorn again during AIWNSG. Steve - unless I missed it, did you give a full review after seeing it with Rachel? Did it make the production work any better for you than your original visit? This production is a fabulous “concert” version of Sunset Boulevard, with stunning choreography as a bonus. It’s not a proper staging of the show, and I honestly believe that Lloyd doesn’t actually like the source material that much. But yes, seeing it with a proper actor in the lead role did make it so much better. With Tucker in it I’d give it 5 stars as a concert. |
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Post by steve10086 on Dec 19, 2023 7:13:37 GMT
For the first time in my life I have sold some theatre tickets. Was booked for Sunset this coming Thursday, but having been so impressed by Rachel Tucker 2 weeks ago I just could not face Scherzinger again. I can’t buy her as Norma Desmond at all, and all the twerking and finger snapping is cheap and classless. Relieved I won’t have to hear her impression of a foghorn again during AIWNSG. I saw this last week for the second time,first viewing early Nov. I preferred Scherz's earlier interpretation. This time she has gone into overdrive with all the antics, almost playing for laughs. That's what confidence does for you. What's with the extreme slowing down with the speech at times? OMG, in that case I am doubly glad not to see that. The antics totally ruin the character. And that slowed down rubbish that replaces The Lady’s Paying is just awful. |
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Post by shownut on Dec 19, 2023 7:27:12 GMT
Just on my way back from seeing Rachel Tucker in tonight's show. Such a different, broken performance for her Norma. I agree with what has previously been said about both NS and RT bring different but bring equally great things to the roll. Had to suffer a rowdy group in the audience behind me who clearly weren't enjoying or following the show. Having raided the bar, they were going to let it known their boredom. I suppose this is the problem with a "traditional" show being delivered in a non traditional way for members of the public who haven't got that memo. Does anyone know if changes of lyrics in the show were for this production or have they been implemented since the last cast recording. "Every Movies a Circus", "Boy meets Girl" and others seems to have slightly different, slightly darker lyrics then what I remember and I swear the script Betty and Joe writes used to be "Blind Windows" rather then "Dark Windows". Obviously there is some added dialogue to fill in the gaps where the two missing songs were. Any ideas? I was there last night as well - my second visit so I could see Rachel Tucker who, frankly, blew me away. It is one of those rare occasions where two actressses sharing a role on seperate nights both deliver knock-out, albeit, very different performances. Nicole struck me as fragile/damaged while Rachel was unhinged/erratic....both vocally sensational. Sorry you had a rough audience experience - I was expecting the worst given the number of people heading to their seats armed with full bottles of wine and behaving like they already had a few on the way in. We had a popcorn muncher next to us who kindly put her snack down upon request from my husband but it really is making the theatre feel like going to the circus. Shows seems secondary to the eating/drinking experience and it is a real turn-off. |
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 19, 2023 8:40:55 GMT
Just on my way back from seeing Rachel Tucker in tonight's show. Such a different, broken performance for her Norma. I agree with what has previously been said about both NS and RT bring different but bring equally great things to the roll. Had to suffer a rowdy group in the audience behind me who clearly weren't enjoying or following the show. Having raided the bar, they were going to let it known their boredom. I suppose this is the problem with a "traditional" show being delivered in a non traditional way for members of the public who haven't got that memo. Does anyone know if changes of lyrics in the show were for this production or have they been implemented since the last cast recording. "Every Movies a Circus", "Boy meets Girl" and others seems to have slightly different, slightly darker lyrics then what I remember and I swear the script Betty and Joe writes used to be "Blind Windows" rather then "Dark Windows". Obviously there is some added dialogue to fill in the gaps where the two missing songs were. Any ideas? The changes are specific to this production and were revised by Black and Hampton |
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 19, 2023 8:42:59 GMT
Just on my way back from seeing Rachel Tucker in tonight's show. Such a different, broken performance for her Norma. I agree with what has previously been said about both NS and RT bring different but bring equally great things to the roll. Had to suffer a rowdy group in the audience behind me who clearly weren't enjoying or following the show. Having raided the bar, they were going to let it known their boredom. I suppose this is the problem with a "traditional" show being delivered in a non traditional way for members of the public who haven't got that memo. Does anyone know if changes of lyrics in the show were for this production or have they been implemented since the last cast recording. "Every Movies a Circus", "Boy meets Girl" and others seems to have slightly different, slightly darker lyrics then what I remember and I swear the script Betty and Joe writes used to be "Blind Windows" rather then "Dark Windows". Obviously there is some added dialogue to fill in the gaps where the two missing songs were. Any ideas? I was there last night as well - my second visit so I could see Rachel Tucker who, frankly, blew me away. It is one of those rare occasions where two actressses sharing a role on seperate nights both deliver knock-out, albeit, very different performances. Nicole struck me as fragile/damaged while Rachel was unhinged/erratic....both vocally sensational. Sorry you had a rough audience experience - I was expecting the worst given the number of people heading to their seats armed with full bottles of wine and behaving like they already had a few on the way in. We had a popcorn muncher next to us who kindly put her snack down upon request from my husband but it really is making the theatre feel like going to the circus. Shows seems secondary to the eating/drinking experience and it is a real turn-off. AAARGH! How the hell has eating noisy, crunchy food in wrappers become completely normalised in theatre now?!? I feel like turning around to people and saying "is impossible for you to stop stuffing your face for a couple of hours?!" |
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 19, 2023 8:47:44 GMT
Steve - unless I missed it, did you give a full review after seeing it with Rachel? Did it make the production work any better for you than your original visit? This production is a fabulous “concert” version of Sunset Boulevard, with stunning choreography as a bonus. It’s not a proper staging of the show, and I honestly believe that Lloyd doesn’t actually like the source material that much. But yes, seeing it with a proper actor in the lead role did make it so much better. With Tucker in it I’d give it 5 stars as a concert. Well, that's an "opinion" I guess. :/ |
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Post by apubleed on Dec 19, 2023 9:46:30 GMT
I agree that Lloyd probably doesn’t like much of the material, but neither do I. I think he has done a great job at hiding the flaws of the show and highlight its strengths. However, I absolutely disagree that Rachel Tucker gives a performance that is anywhere near the level of Nicole. Nicole is a virtuosic singer and her ability to act while singing is among the greatest I’ve ever seen on stage (never expected this from a pop star). Rachel’s voice just doesn’t have the expressiveness and nuance that Nicole’s does. This is why I think it’s funny that people might compare them suggesting Rachel is the ‘actor’. No I think Nicole is the actor. She also has star power and the whole tone of her performance and production has this weird dynamic where it feels it’s commenting on her own career. Very very special.
Rachel gives a great understudy performance is how it feels to me (ouch, I know). Nicole is breaking ground.
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Post by toomasj on Dec 19, 2023 10:04:06 GMT
But she isn’t. I found her quite good - good vocals, decent line delivery. I hated the costumes, and her acting “choices” however tightly directed. I find the hype and hyperbole around Scherzinger amusing.
She hams constantly; twerks, pouts and gives a unique performance. This is all fine if you think it suits the character/piece. Some don’t, such as myself.
Being “iconic” and “yaaaas kween” isn’t acting in and of itself. There’s talk here that she’s some legendary stage star off the back of this performance. I appreciate it is very in-the-now and hype and excitement always run highest when a show/flavour of the month is at its hottest - but some of the praise here is a touch OTT.
If she puts in solid 8 show weeks in a variety of different roles in the coming 5-10 years, showing range and versatility from relatively “serious” acting (zero gurning) to musical comedy, earns her stripes on tour or in rep and so on - then perhaps she’ll start to earn that kind of status.
I understand everyone’s excitement because of what she represents - a star for the TikTok era (*snaps fingers*, gurlfriiiend) and very popular with gay audiences, but honestly she’s got two major theatre credits to her name - and one of those was in Cats 🤣
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Post by shownut on Dec 19, 2023 11:21:49 GMT
I understand everyone’s excitement because of what she represents - a star for the TikTok era (*snaps fingers*, gurlfriiiend) and very popular with gay audiences, but honestly she’s got two major theatre credits to her name - and one of those was in Cats 🤣 As someone who doesn't go near TikTok and happens to be gay, I find your comment a bit weird. The whole "yasss queen" finger snapping act has been a part of popular culture for more than a decade. Equating that as merely popular with gay audiences....hmm...nope. Not all of us find it entertaining or representative of anything other than a lady/person being sassy. Period. Re your slam at Cats, how very original. But I doubt Elaine Paige or Betty Buckley hold their heads in shame when that credit is mentioned in their bios and for good reason. I doubt NS does either. I knew little about NS before seeing her in SUNSET but having seen all of the London Norma's (sans Rita Moreno), I thought she nailed it with a highly original and daring performance. Maybe it wasn't for you but I take issue with anyone that says it only generated excitement because her portrayal resonated with TikTokkers and 'gay audiences'. I think that is nonsense. |
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Post by steve10086 on Dec 19, 2023 11:45:47 GMT
But she isn’t. I found her quite good - good vocals, decent line delivery. I hated the costumes, and her acting “choices” however tightly directed. I find the hype and hyperbole around Scherzinger amusing. She hams constantly; twerks, pouts and gives a unique performance. This is all fine if you think it suits the character/piece. Some don’t, such as myself. Being “iconic” and “yaaaas kween” isn’t acting in and of itself. There’s talk here that she’s some legendary stage star off the back of this performance. I appreciate it is very in-the-now and hype and excitement always run highest when a show/flavour of the month is at its hottest - but some of the praise here is a touch OTT. If she puts in solid 8 show weeks in a variety of different roles in the coming 5-10 years, showing range and versatility from relatively “serious” acting (zero gurning) to musical comedy, earns her stripes on tour or in rep and so on - then perhaps she’ll start to earn that kind of status. I understand everyone’s excitement because of what she represents - a star for the TikTok era (*snaps fingers*, gurlfriiiend) and very popular with gay audiences, but honestly she’s got two major theatre credits to her name - and one of those was in Cats 🤣 All of this!!!! 👍👍 |
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Post by Being Alive on Dec 19, 2023 11:59:38 GMT
I understand everyone’s excitement because of what she represents - a star for the TikTok era (*snaps fingers*, gurlfriiiend) and very popular with gay audiences, but honestly she’s got two major theatre credits to her name - and one of those was in Cats 🤣 As someone who doesn't go near TikTok and happens to be gay, I find your comment a bit weird. The whole "yasss queen" finger snapping act has been a part of popular culture for more than a decade. Equating that as merely popular with gay audiences....hmm...nope. Not all of us find it entertaining or representative of anything other than a lady/person being sassy. Period. Re your slam at Cats, how very original. But I doubt Elaine Paige or Betty Buckley hold their heads in shame when that credit is mentioned in their bios and for good reason. I doubt NS does either. I knew little about NS before seeing her in SUNSET but having seen all of the London Norma's (sans Rita Moreno), I thought she nailed it with a highly original and daring performance. Maybe it wasn't for you but I take issue with anyone that says it only generated excitement because her portrayal resonated with TikTokkers and 'gay audiences'. I think that is nonsense. I'm with shownut on this - I was the biggest skeptic of Scherzinger doing this when it was announced right up until I sat there and watched her do it. I'm not a TikToker, I am gay, and I go to the theatre a lot more than your average human. Scherzinger, to me, is giving one of the best performances we've seen on a London stage all year on any stage. I don't find anything in the final 20 minutes of this show 'yaaaas queen' or 'something for the gays' - I found it to be bold, daring, a genuine acting feat, and something seriously deserving of praise and recognition. Sure, it's not for you and that's fine - Jamie Lloyd productions are always marmite - but don't generalise the people who are enjoying this. No one I know that's seen it and loved it like me fit your stereotype thanks. |
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Post by apubleed on Dec 19, 2023 12:19:52 GMT
Agreed. And when I say ‘acting’ I’m not personally talking about some of those line readings people have a problem with, but all the nuanced singing right from her first lines and surrender etc. in my opinion Rachel just doesn’t have the nuance or vulnerability in her voice to do what Nicole does here. And the tone that she sings some of the big songs - I don’t know how to quite describe it but it’s just a sound I’ve never heard before. There is this certain warmth or something. I can’t wait for a cast recording.
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Post by doornumberthree on Dec 19, 2023 12:24:14 GMT
As someone who doesn't go near TikTok and happens to be gay, I find your comment a bit weird. The whole "yasss queen" finger snapping act has been a part of popular culture for more than a decade. Equating that as merely popular with gay audiences....hmm...nope. Not all of us find it entertaining or representative of anything other than a lady/person being sassy. Period. Re your slam at Cats, how very original. But I doubt Elaine Paige or Betty Buckley hold their heads in shame when that credit is mentioned in their bios and for good reason. I doubt NS does either. I knew little about NS before seeing her in SUNSET but having seen all of the London Norma's (sans Rita Moreno), I thought she nailed it with a highly original and daring performance. Maybe it wasn't for you but I take issue with anyone that says it only generated excitement because her portrayal resonated with TikTokkers and 'gay audiences'. I think that is nonsense. I'm with shownut on this - I was the biggest skeptic of Scherzinger doing this when it was announced right up until I sat there and watched her do it. I'm not a TikToker, I am gay, and I go to the theatre a lot more than your average human. Scherzinger, to me, is giving one of the best performances we've seen on a London stage all year on any stage. I don't find anything in the final 20 minutes of this show 'yaaaas queen' or 'something for the gays' - I found it to be bold, daring, a genuine acting feat, and something seriously deserving of praise and recognition. Sure, it's not for you and that's fine - Jamie Lloyd productions are always marmite - but don't generalise the people who are enjoying this. No one I know that's seen it and loved it like me fit your stereotype thanks. 100% this! Although, I have now seen Rachel 4 times and do prefer her Norma. However, Nicole’s portrayal is fantastic and surprised me so much, I think she’s brilliant and I hope I can see her one more time before it closes. I was also at the show last night, and I dearly missed David Thaxton, although I was so impressed with his understudy. What he’s doing with Max in this production is just fantastic! |
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Post by lolaluffneggle on Dec 19, 2023 12:25:25 GMT
I was expecting Nicole to be good but I wasn’t expecting her to be THAT good, blew me and my mum away when we saw it.
Both agreed that the show would not be the same or have the same impact had there been full sets, costumes etc. nor do I think Nicole’s performance would have the same impact. This production is perfect for what it is and what JL was obviously trying to do with it. We don’t need to compare it to previous, it is its own. If you don’t like it you don’t like it and if you don’t like Nicole, ok. We don’t need to hate on it.
Wish I could see it again! Been stuck in my head ever since I saw it.
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Post by danb on Dec 19, 2023 12:58:27 GMT
This whole convo just went next level offensive, and being so reductive about a piece of mass market media as being ‘for the gays’ is mind bogglingly ill judged. Yes, obviously MT is very popular with the gay community (as are pop Divas), but most of the West End is very good at appealing to the wider public at the same time as any (increasingly less) ‘niche’ market. Regardless of the concept within, Lloyd has served up quite a specialist piece of art as popular MT and managed to sell it out as a result of his star and the stellar word of mouth that this has generated. He has played a blinder.
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Dec 19, 2023 13:14:03 GMT
I was expecting Nicole to be good but I wasn’t expecting her to be THAT good, blew me and my mum away when we saw it. Both agreed that the show would not be the same or have the same impact had there been full sets, costumes etc. nor do I think Nicole’s performance would have the same impact. This production is perfect for what it is and what JL was obviously trying to do with it. We don’t need to compare it to previous, it is its own. If you don’t like it you don’t like it and if you don’t like Nicole, ok. We don’t need to hate on it. Wish I could see it again! Been stuck in my head ever since I saw it. THIS. I was a bit like 'oh dear,' when I saw the One Show interview but as soon as Nicole appeared and her acting/singing... she broke my heart. Can't stop thinking about her performance! |
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Post by toomasj on Dec 19, 2023 13:16:30 GMT
A couple of people above have deliberately misquoted me as saying the show is “for the gays” - which you’ll notice I never said. I implied that her performance is popular with gay audiences, which anecdotally I believe it is. The mock offence isn’t needed here - just discussion.
The stylised approach and Scherzinger’s high camp performance lend the show a certain feel, which I’m 100% sure is what was the director and performer intended.
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Post by theatreloverlondon on Dec 19, 2023 13:17:09 GMT
But she isn’t. I found her quite good - good vocals, decent line delivery. I hated the costumes, and her acting “choices” however tightly directed. I find the hype and hyperbole around Scherzinger amusing. She hams constantly; twerks, pouts and gives a unique performance. This is all fine if you think it suits the character/piece. Some don’t, such as myself. Being “iconic” and “yaaaas kween” isn’t acting in and of itself. There’s talk here that she’s some legendary stage star off the back of this performance. I appreciate it is very in-the-now and hype and excitement always run highest when a show/flavour of the month is at its hottest - but some of the praise here is a touch OTT. If she puts in solid 8 show weeks in a variety of different roles in the coming 5-10 years, showing range and versatility from relatively “serious” acting (zero gurning) to musical comedy, earns her stripes on tour or in rep and so on - then perhaps she’ll start to earn that kind of status. I understand everyone’s excitement because of what she represents - a star for the TikTok era (*snaps fingers*, gurlfriiiend) and very popular with gay audiences, but honestly she’s got two major theatre credits to her name - and one of those was in Cats 🤣 I sort of see where you’re coming from. Especially in the first act I wasn’t sold on her acting- not acting through song necessarily but the acting. I also found the twerking bits a bit forced and some of the close up shots pouting to the camera a bit cringe. To me, she is no Oscar winning actress but I did leave the show thinking wow, the Olivier has to be hers, what a beast. What she does up there is not easy. |
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Post by normasturban on Dec 19, 2023 13:23:30 GMT
I’ve seen both actresses multiple times now and found both of them rather spectacular. I do prefer Rachel because I think she delivers a more nuanced performance but it’s a preference by a hair.
I would also agree that I did find Nicole a little stronger the first time I saw her at the start of the run than the second quite recently.
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 19, 2023 13:40:12 GMT
I agree that Lloyd probably doesn’t like much of the material, but neither do I. I think he has done a great job at hiding the flaws of the show and highlight its strengths. However, I absolutely disagree that Rachel Tucker gives a performance that is anywhere near the level of Nicole. Nicole is a virtuosic singer and her ability to act while singing is among the greatest I’ve ever seen on stage (never expected this from a pop star). Rachel’s voice just doesn’t have the expressiveness and nuance that Nicole’s does. This is why I think it’s funny that people might compare them suggesting Rachel is the ‘actor’. No I think Nicole is the actor. She also has star power and the whole tone of her performance and production has this weird dynamic where it feels it’s commenting on her own career. Very very special. Rachel gives a great understudy performance is how it feels to me (ouch, I know). Nicole is breaking ground. He has been quoted as saying he specifically wanted to do Sunset. So are you speculating he wanted to direct the story, but doesn't care for the music? |
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 19, 2023 13:43:33 GMT
I understand everyone’s excitement because of what she represents - a star for the TikTok era (*snaps fingers*, gurlfriiiend) and very popular with gay audiences, but honestly she’s got two major theatre credits to her name - and one of those was in Cats 🤣 As someone who doesn't go near TikTok and happens to be gay, I find your comment a bit weird. The whole "yasss queen" finger snapping act has been a part of popular culture for more than a decade. Equating that as merely popular with gay audiences....hmm...nope. Not all of us find it entertaining or representative of anything other than a lady/person being sassy. Period. Re your slam at Cats, how very original. But I doubt Elaine Paige or Betty Buckley hold their heads in shame when that credit is mentioned in their bios and for good reason. I doubt NS does either. I knew little about NS before seeing her in SUNSET but having seen all of the London Norma's (sans Rita Moreno), I thought she nailed it with a highly original and daring performance. Maybe it wasn't for you but I take issue with anyone that says it only generated excitement because her portrayal resonated with TikTokkers and 'gay audiences'. I think that is nonsense. I agree. A lot of what is considered quintisentially gay culture or queer culture has, for bad or worse, bled very heavily into the mainstream. Mainly due to Ru Paul's Drag Race. When you've got suburban women using this kind of vernacular (be it ironically or non-ironically) - which I have definitely witnessed - you know it's gone mainstream. |
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 19, 2023 13:47:08 GMT
A couple of people above have deliberately misquoted me as saying the show is “for the gays” - which you’ll notice I never said. I implied that her performance is popular with gay audiences, which anecdotally I believe it is. The mock offence isn’t needed here - just discussion. The stylised approach and Scherzinger’s high camp performance lend the show a certain feel, which I’m 100% sure is what was the director and performer intended. Sunset Boulevard - the film and the musical has never NOT had an element of camp in it. It is absolutely intrinsic to the character of Norma. |
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 19, 2023 13:48:02 GMT
But she isn’t. I found her quite good - good vocals, decent line delivery. I hated the costumes, and her acting “choices” however tightly directed. I find the hype and hyperbole around Scherzinger amusing. She hams constantly; twerks, pouts and gives a unique performance. This is all fine if you think it suits the character/piece. Some don’t, such as myself. Being “iconic” and “yaaaas kween” isn’t acting in and of itself. There’s talk here that she’s some legendary stage star off the back of this performance. I appreciate it is very in-the-now and hype and excitement always run highest when a show/flavour of the month is at its hottest - but some of the praise here is a touch OTT. If she puts in solid 8 show weeks in a variety of different roles in the coming 5-10 years, showing range and versatility from relatively “serious” acting (zero gurning) to musical comedy, earns her stripes on tour or in rep and so on - then perhaps she’ll start to earn that kind of status. I understand everyone’s excitement because of what she represents - a star for the TikTok era (*snaps fingers*, gurlfriiiend) and very popular with gay audiences, but honestly she’s got two major theatre credits to her name - and one of those was in Cats 🤣 I sort of see where you’re coming from. Especially in the first act I wasn’t sold on her acting- not acting through song necessarily but the acting. I also found the twerking bits a bit forced and some of the close up shots pouting to the camera a bit cringe. To me, she is no Oscar winning actress but I did leave the show thinking wow, the Olivier has to be hers, what a beast. What she does up there is not easy. Rachel Tucker also does the pouting and looks to camera - that's how Lloyd has directed them, I suspect. |
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