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Post by anthony on Aug 15, 2023 10:54:11 GMT
English version of Jenseits der Nacht has been released! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Some interesting translating choices "abandoned spirits" from Ich sounding particularly odd, but it sounds sooo good overall. omg. I agree about the translation choices, but I enjoyed the performance. Was Lauren Jones the understudy for Bonnie recently? I’m sure I saw her in that and she gave a good performance in that role too. Yes, she was. Really like Richard Carson too. This gives me high hopes! Also revealed how the 18-piece orchestra will fit: www.thestage.co.uk/news/exclusive-charing-cross-theatre-to-rival-west-end-with-19-strong-orchestra-pit < surely this is going to make productions at Charing Cross financially unviable, though? Either way, the Rebecca score is going to sound marvellous. |
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Post by magnificentdonkey on Aug 16, 2023 3:39:55 GMT
English version of Jenseits der Nacht has been released! Thank you! I wouldn't mind if they recorded the whole score like this (with just a piano accompanying the voices) and released a CD of it! Also I'm happy this is really happening at last after so many years of anticipation! |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Aug 16, 2023 7:46:28 GMT
Nicely performed but that song is boring AF.
Also an 18 piece orchestra? What?! This whole show has to be a tax write off or something. Or a producer who has never done a show before 🤣
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Post by originalconceptlive on Aug 16, 2023 8:29:49 GMT
I watched an interview with Kunze last night where he is very cut throat about an English language production - if Charing Cross doesn't work, he won't try again... and he isn't even sure about doing an English language version of the show anymore... That's interesting. I do wonder what measures Kunze would use to judge this production as having "worked". The bar isn't exactly high for English language attempts at his shows thus far. Would a production that mostly stayed true to his intentions, achieved a modest run without any major production disasters, and got some mixed reviews, be enough? (I don't mean this in a particularly snarky way; I just don't want this production to require raves and a West End transfer* or something, in order for the rest of the world to have a chance of seeing the show in English someday.) (*Edit: or is this technically a West End theatre?) |
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Post by viserys on Aug 16, 2023 11:03:14 GMT
Cut the man some slack, he's turning 80 this year.
He was at the height of his musical theatre fame in the 90s and 00s with Elisabeth, Tanz der Vampire and then Rebecca and he was very vocal about wanting to make it in London and on Broadway then, talking about exporting Vienna's musicals to the world.
Well, Tanz der Vampire flopped spectacularly in New York and Rebecca didn't get off the ground twice, first in London with the mysterious lake under the Shaftesbury Theatre and then the whole saga around the non-existant investor on Broadway.
In the meantime, his musicals are still popular in the German-speaking regions and other parts of Europe as well as in Japan and South Korea, where he and Levay wrote three musicals on commission.
I'm sure he's reached a point at his age where he's content with what he has achieved in continental Europe and Asia and doesn't care for fame in the Anglo-American sphere anymore, especially since taste in musicals has drastically diverged in the last 10-20 years. AT least, unlike certain other composers, he seems to understand that his style does not match the current trends anymore and doesn't desperately try and keep up with the young'uns.
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Post by anthony on Aug 16, 2023 11:31:08 GMT
Cut the man some slack, he's turning 80 this year. He was at the height of his musical theatre fame in the 90s and 00s with Elisabeth, Tanz der Vampire and then Rebecca and he was very vocal about wanting to make it in London and on Broadway then, talking about exporting Vienna's musicals to the world. Well, Tanz der Vampire flopped spectacularly in New York and Rebecca didn't get off the ground twice, first in London with the mysterious lake under the Shaftesbury Theatre and then the whole saga around the non-existant investor on Broadway. In the meantime, his musicals are still popular in the German-speaking regions and other parts of Europe as well as in Japan and South Korea, where he and Levay wrote three musicals on commission. I'm sure he's reached a point at his age where he's content with what he has achieved in continental Europe and Asia and doesn't care for fame in the Anglo-American sphere anymore, especially since taste in musicals has drastically diverged in the last 10-20 years. AT least, unlike certain other composers, he seems to understand that his style does not match the current trends anymore and doesn't desperately try and keep up with the young'uns. I'm not sure anyone is disagreeing with you. Also don't think anyone is being harsh towards Kunze? At all, actually. |
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Post by anthony on Aug 16, 2023 11:34:04 GMT
I watched an interview with Kunze last night where he is very cut throat about an English language production - if Charing Cross doesn't work, he won't try again... and he isn't even sure about doing an English language version of the show anymore... That's interesting. I do wonder what measures Kunze would use to judge this production as having "worked". The bar isn't exactly high for English language attempts at his shows thus far. Would a production that mostly stayed true to his intentions, achieved a modest run without any major production disasters, and got some mixed reviews, be enough? (I don't mean this in a particularly snarky way; I just don't want this production to require raves and a West End transfer* or something, in order for the rest of the world to have a chance of seeing the show in English someday.) (*Edit: or is this technically a West End theatre?) I have a feeling success will be judged on how well it sells, as opposed to financial gains. I hope it does well in reviews, but I have a feeling it won't, sadly - these type of shows never seem to perform well anymore. Financially, it's probably going to make a loss, right? I mean I don't know how much the musicians and actors are being paid, but obviously with an 18-piece orchestra (well, the Stage is now reporting it's a 19-piece orchestra?), surely this is going to struggle to make back its investment? It presently isn't selling tremendously well. Either way, I hope it does well enough so that Kunze tries some other shows at venues like Charing Cross (GIVE ME ELISABETH, ALREADY! AND MOZART!). You know, could even try going the Notre Dame de Paris world tour route and just bring it in German for a limited run... |
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Post by max on Aug 16, 2023 12:46:07 GMT
The word "I" or "I'd" is used six times in the first 20 sung seconds of the song released on YouTube - those self-describing songs feel incredibly dated, and were never good writing. Though the style of song (to my ears) comes from Les Miserables, the lyrics of that show are wise to dodge the pitfall. In 'At The End Of The Day' it's all 'you' you're' 'you'll' not 'I'm hungry / we're poor'. Another song could easily have been "I'm alone" but thankfully was "On My Own" instead.
It's a shame, because I'd like to see success for a show that aims to draw you in without meta theatrical winks, or musical comedy traits, and even takes itself a bit seriously (crime!). But if this isn't a good example of that style it will only confirm the steer away from that for any new shows (obvs old show like Phantom and Les Mis will carry on, and perhaps survive because, largely, they don't lapse into those clunky presentational 'I' lyrics).
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Post by viserys on Aug 16, 2023 12:49:30 GMT
Also don't think anyone is being harsh towards Kunze? At all, actually. Oh, I'm happy to be harsh on Kunze myself  Just felt the phrasing of him being "cut throat" and that he "wouldn't try again" (if this fails) warranted a bit of explaining why I can perfectly understand his attitude after all the disappointments. I think "Elisabeth" missed its chance in the 90s, when Princess Diana was still alive (or in the first years after her death when she was still massively beloved) since it could have played on their similarities to make Elisabeth's story more interesting for a British audience. These days I don't think it stands a chance anymore compared to the current approach of turning any kind of historical figure into either a rapper or a sassy YASSS QUEEEN!! type. Mozart can go die in a fire, it was really just a bottom-drawer recycling of the tunes they didn't use for Elisabeth. That said, I've been saying for years, someone should put on a season of foreign shows to showcase them - Elisabeth and/or Rebecca from Austria, one of the French spectacles, one of the original East Asian shows, and so on. PS: Not sure where you live, Anthony, but if you're keen on seeing Elisabeth, there's a new production being planned in the Netherlands next season. PPS: I doubt Rebecca will be able to recoup. People are SO used to the Charing X Theatre discounting, many are probably waiting for that. Me included |
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Post by Boob on Aug 16, 2023 13:17:03 GMT
I really hope this has new orchestrations. I feel the dated soft rock/pop style (snare drum beat in the chorus of the above song, for instance) really won’t go down too well over here. It needs to sound lush, orchestral and a bit more trad.
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Post by amygdalopita on Aug 16, 2023 19:02:21 GMT
I really hope this has new orchestrations. I feel the dated soft rock/pop style (snare drum beat in the chorus of the above song, for instance) really won’t go down too well over here. It needs to sound lush, orchestral and a bit more trad. it will be the same I imagine based on VBW having their logo all over every poster I would guess the entire show (apart from design and direction) will be copy paste. |
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Post by anthony on Aug 16, 2023 19:06:24 GMT
I really hope this has new orchestrations. I feel the dated soft rock/pop style (snare drum beat in the chorus of the above song, for instance) really won’t go down too well over here. It needs to sound lush, orchestral and a bit more trad. it will be the same I imagine based on VBW having their logo all over every poster I would guess the entire show (apart from design and direction) will be copy paste. I imagine you're right -Janseits der Nacht was one of the songs that was performed publicly from the cancelled Broadway production and that had amended orchestrations and it had a different layout to the song - Ich sang first. The video we got yesterday reverts back to how it's been done in the German-language productions, with having Maxim start. So certainly implies it'll be cut and paste - not that that is a bad thing, in my opinion. |
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Post by anthony on Aug 16, 2023 19:08:00 GMT
Also don't think anyone is being harsh towards Kunze? At all, actually. Oh, I'm happy to be harsh on Kunze myself Just felt the phrasing of him being "cut throat" and that he "wouldn't try again" (if this fails) warranted a bit of explaining why I can perfectly understand his attitude after all the disappointments. I think "Elisabeth" missed its chance in the 90s, when Princess Diana was still alive (or in the first years after her death when she was still massively beloved) since it could have played on their similarities to make Elisabeth's story more interesting for a British audience. These days I don't think it stands a chance anymore compared to the current approach of turning any kind of historical figure into either a rapper or a sassy YASSS QUEEEN!! type. Mozart can go die in a fire, it was really just a bottom-drawer recycling of the tunes they didn't use for Elisabeth. That said, I've been saying for years, someone should put on a season of foreign shows to showcase them - Elisabeth and/or Rebecca from Austria, one of the French spectacles, one of the original East Asian shows, and so on. PS: Not sure where you live, Anthony, but if you're keen on seeing Elisabeth, there's a new production being planned in the Netherlands next season. PPS: I doubt Rebecca will be able to recoup. People are SO used to the Charing X Theatre discounting, many are probably waiting for that. Me included Ooh, nice re: Elisabeth. I've been waiting for a proper performance for years. I don't fancy seeing the concert version (which I believe is eventually being put to rest now!). Might have to make a trip - just had a look and it doesn't look like anything has been released yet? A foreign language showcase could work, I think. Notre Dame de Paris is having a very successful world tour, so the language issue doesn't seem to put people off. We could have some Takarazuka, even! That would be immense. |
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Post by viserys on Aug 16, 2023 19:34:26 GMT
Ooh, nice re: Elisabeth. I've been waiting for a proper performance for years. I don't fancy seeing the concert version (which I believe is eventually being put to rest now!). Might have to make a trip - just had a look and it doesn't look like anything has been released yet? There was a lovely open air version in Brussels last year in French that I really enjoyed. The concert version is a massive rip-off in my opinion as the seating area is huge and you either pay through your nose or sit miles away. Did you see the pro-shot that was on Austrian TV? If not, feel free to PM me, I can probably help with anything Elisabeth There's only been a press release on the new tour so far, which you can run through Google Translate probably: www.musicalweb.nl/musicalklassieker-elisabeth-terug-in-de-nederlandse-theaters-27476Takarazuka would be amazing. I still kick myself that I was in Tokyo during one of their runs of Elisabeth, but I had no idea it would sell out within hours of the tickets going on sale  And now back to Rebecca! |
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Post by originalconceptlive on Aug 16, 2023 21:19:00 GMT
To continue the Rebecca-adjacent tangents for just a moment more: there was a version of Mozart! done at a performing arts school in the UK a few years ago. (To the interest of no one on this board apart from me, alas: theatreboard.co.uk/thread/6673/levays-mozart-mountview-academy-theatre.) So there is some kind of English version of that show lurking around. The recent Elisabeth concert pro-shot is also available (with subtitles) on DVD and Blu-Ray for those so inclined. |
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Post by Dawnstar on Aug 16, 2023 21:28:17 GMT
English version of Jenseits der Nacht has been released! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Some interesting translating choices "abandoned spirits" from Ich sounding particularly odd, but it sounds sooo good overall. omg.
I listened to the song fist & then looked up whereabouts it comes in the show. I was surprised to find it comes almost at the end, as from the lyrics I had thought it would be from early in their marriage. Still, it has made my interest in seeing the show go from very low to possible. It also makes me feel old as I think of Maxim de Winter as being middle aged (this is probably influenced by having seen a play version with Nigel Havers in 2005 when he would have been mid 50s) & Richard Carson looks fairly young.
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Post by anthony on Aug 16, 2023 22:00:27 GMT
English version of Jenseits der Nacht has been released! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Some interesting translating choices "abandoned spirits" from Ich sounding particularly odd, but it sounds sooo good overall. omg.
I listened to the song fist & then looked up whereabouts it comes in the show. I was surprised to find it comes almost at the end, as from the lyrics I had thought it would be from early in their marriage. Still, it has made my interest in seeing the show go from very low to possible. It also makes me feel old as I think of Maxim de Winter as being middle aged (this is prpobably influenced by having seen a play version with Nigel Havers in 2005 when he would have been mid 50s) & Richard Carson looks fairly young.
To be fair, the translation confused me a little bit too. The German version is sung in past tense - Maxim *was* looking into the abyss; he *was* afraid because of the "invisible shadows". In the song he questions what would have happened to him if he didn't find I. The song is about what happens next - Janseits der Nacht translates to 'beyond the night' and the lyrics are about forgetting and it uses the metaphor of "waking up". The song comes after "Mrs de Winter, bin ich" (I am Mrs de Winter), which is Ich standing up to Danvers, so I's part of the song doesn't really fit - she's already found that resolve at this point in the show. It does make it wonder if, for the English production, they've moved it. Otherwise, the translation just isn't clear enough: "show me what love can do" < it has already happened. Maxim is free, he's been honest with I already. I guess the English translation is in past tense, but it is confusing nonetheless. |
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Post by BVM on Aug 17, 2023 15:48:39 GMT
Kween Willemijn doing Frozen in Hamburg in fact - much bigger gig in an, ahem, slightly nicer theatre than Charing X. At risk of channeling Sunset thread, poss the oldest ever Elsa? Sure she’ll be sensational though. Adored her in Bat Out of Hell and Rebecca. Well she's the voice of the German and Dutch Elsa, so I guess she's a major selling point. Anyway, so excited for Rebecca. I don't think I've been this excited for something since Love Never Dies! When Rebecca debuted, I was obsessed with other Kunze musical 'Elisabeth'. This has literally been 17 years waiting for me! I just hope it does well enough to get an English cast recording... I have a feeling it won't (I watched an interview with Kunze last night where he is very cut throat about an English language production - if Charing Cross doesn't work, he won't try again... and he isn't even sure about doing an English language version of the show anymore...). I do think they'd have been better, perhaps, getting a name for Danvers. Without glowing reviews, I think this was always going to be a hard sell, sadly. Shows like this just don't do well with English-speaking audiences, sadly. Pictures of the cast here: www.broadwayworld.com/westend/article/Photos-First-Look-at-the-Stars-of-REBECCA-at-Charing-Cross-Theatre-20230802I am totally with you in being very excited for this! It's actually fairly new to me. Cats and Miss Saigon are two of my fave musicals of all time and as things opened up post pandemic they were both in Vienna leading me to go on several trips there. These two productions were insane in their quality. Best I've seen Cats since New London and best Saigon since Drury Lane. It was sensational. Anyway, everywhere in the theatres they had old posters for Rebecca and Elizabeth and the merch stands sold CDs and loads of other stuff for those two shows. Impressed by VBWs presentations of shows, I did some digging, acquired both CDs and absolutely loved them. Well Rebecca immediately, Elizabeth other than the insanely wonderful Ich Gehor Nur Mir I found slightly harder work. But both tapped into my love of mega musical. Anyway, I returned to Vienna this year to see Hunchback (which was enjoyable) and Rebecca (which was amazing!). Latter truly was like the mega musicals of the 80's. And Willemijn was of course sensational. The new CD is also fantastic. Ich (can't recall her name) was also sensational. I appreciate Charing Cross won't be like that but orchestra sounds wonderful, cast is great (adored Carson as Chris in Saigon and as Javert) and am sure they are gonna produce something superb. (I really enjoyed Woman in White there and From Here To Eternity worked despite the very minimalist set). Like you I would LOVE an English recording. Though sadly knowing what the West End is like for getting cast recordings out even for big budget stuff, I can't see it. |
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Post by Oobi on Aug 17, 2023 16:18:37 GMT
I listened to the song fist & then looked up whereabouts it comes in the show. I was surprised to find it comes almost at the end, as from the lyrics I had thought it would be from early in their marriage. Still, it has made my interest in seeing the show go from very low to possible. It also makes me feel old as I think of Maxim de Winter as being middle aged (this is prpobably influenced by having seen a play version with Nigel Havers in 2005 when he would have been mid 50s) & Richard Carson looks fairly young.
To be fair, the translation confused me a little bit too. The German version is sung in past tense - Maxim *was* looking into the abyss; he *was* afraid because of the "invisible shadows". In the song he questions what would have happened to him if he didn't find I. The song is about what happens next - Janseits der Nacht translates to 'beyond the night' and the lyrics are about forgetting and it uses the metaphor of "waking up". The song comes after "Mrs de Winter, bin ich" (I am Mrs de Winter), which is Ich standing up to Danvers, so I's part of the song doesn't really fit - she's already found that resolve at this point in the show. It does make it wonder if, for the English production, they've moved it. Otherwise, the translation just isn't clear enough: "show me what love can do" < it has already happened. Maxim is free, he's been honest with I already. I guess the English translation is in past tense, but it is confusing nonetheless. I think you're mixed up. "Janseits der Nacht" (Beyond the Night) is the reprise in Act 2, once Maxime has proven his innocence; the song that was video'd is "Hilf mir durch die Nacht" (Help Me Through the Night), which has always been sung in the middle of Act 1.
I'm sure the reprise will have some tremendously clever lyrical changes like "I've seen what love can do".
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Post by soph26 on Aug 17, 2023 19:42:03 GMT
I hadn't heard of the show or music before (the show had vaguely caught my eye as I've read a few du Maurier books earlier this year) but I think seeing the one song has definitely increased my interest. I think I will probably wait a bit to book a ticket but may need to check out more/the german version in the meantime.
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Post by Dawnstar on Aug 17, 2023 21:15:10 GMT
I think you're mixed up. "Janseits der Nacht" (Beyond the Night) is the reprise in Act 2, once Maxime has proven his innocence; the song that was video'd is "Hilf mir durch die Nacht" (Help Me Through the Night), which has always been sung in the middle of Act 1. Thanks, that does make more sense of the lyrics. |
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Post by austink on Aug 18, 2023 14:41:38 GMT
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Post by tal on Aug 20, 2023 0:54:45 GMT
I am so curious to see hear this 19-musician orchestra now. Let’s hope Rebecca actually gets a run this time and does not repeat its Broadway curse. |
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Post by anthony on Aug 21, 2023 12:11:28 GMT
"Mrs de Winter bin ich" (or Mrs de Winter is here!) has just been released:
This is actually one of my favourite songs from the show. It feels really slow and the translation a little bit clunky. Interesting the title is "Mrs de Winter is here" when I actually sings "Mrs de Winter is me". It's somewhat of an odd decision to release this song, to be honest. They should have went with either She's Invincible or Rebecca - genuinely think those two would have sparked some interest.
My boyfriend: "It sounds like one of those YouTube songs that has been put through Google translate 10 times before being translated back to English".
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Post by BVM on Aug 21, 2023 12:24:14 GMT
"Mrs de Winter bin ich" (or Mrs de Winter is here!) has just been released: This is actually one of my favourite songs from the show. It feels really slow and the translation a little bit clunky. Interesting the title is "Mrs de Winter is here" when I actually sings "Mrs de Winter is me". It's somewhat of an odd decision to release this song, to be honest. They should have went with either She's Invincible or Rebecca - genuinely think those two would have sparked some interest. My boyfriend: "It sounds like one of those YouTube songs that has been put through Google translate 10 times before being translated back to English". Oh I dunno, funnily enough this is my fave song from the show. The camp was off the charts in Vienna and on both the CDs from there! But yes I do think you're right that it might have limited appeal and is perhaps not a stand alone banger for advertising purposes. Also given how much they've been banging on about the orchestra, wonder if it might have been an idea to wait until sitzprobe to be releasing song vids. Guess they wanna generate interest/an advance now. It's a hard sell. Glorious though this musical is to me, it couldn't be further from the trend in musicals in the UK in 2023. (Sadly). |
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Just felt the phrasing of him being "cut throat" and that he "wouldn't try again" (if this fails) warranted a bit of explaining why I can perfectly understand his attitude after all the disappointments. 
