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Post by justfran on Jan 22, 2020 21:22:36 GMT
I was never really interested in seeing this musical, as I wasn’t aware of the story but having watched The Trial of Christine Keeler I think it’s a good enough story to be revived.
For anyone interested there is a documentary on BBC2 on Sunday at 10pm with a reporter from the time sharing his views on the story and interviews with Stephen Ward.
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Post by learfan on Jan 22, 2020 21:27:17 GMT
Sure I've said it before on here, but for me the problem was context. Anyone under about 45 wouldn't know what life was like back then, when people were expected to "look up" to the ruling class, and the ruling class were expected to set an example. The scandal of a man in power messing around on his wife was unimaginable back then. Now, it's commonplace gossip column stuff. Without understanding the distinction, the whole reason for the show and the storyline makes no sense or impact. Had there been a song putting it in context, I think the show may have done better with a wider audience. 45? More like 60 odd, that was the early 60s so you would have to been born in the 1950s to have any idea of that world still very much in the shadow of WW2. |
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Post by impossibleprincess73 on Jan 23, 2020 0:09:23 GMT
I saw this twice, purely for Jo Riding as I'm not an ALW fan. I wasn't born when the scandal happened but I knew bits and pieces from stuff I'd read beforehand. I thought it was ok but I agree with others who are saying it has really limited appeal, especially to tourists. I remember the theatre being half empty when I saw it. I do have a download of the CD somewhere but I don't think I've ever listened to it and apart from Hopeless When It Comes To You, I don't think I could hum one single tune from it now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 8:50:48 GMT
When I saw it I got my god seat bumped up to premium. I sat next to this chap and his elderly father whom where both beyond chuffed that they had been bumped up too! They obviously didn’t go to the theatre that often because they excitably told everyone around them how little they had to pay for such great seats!!
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Jan 23, 2020 10:41:03 GMT
I do have a download of the CD somewhere but I don't think I've ever listened to it and apart from Hopeless When It Comes To You, I don't think I could hum one single tune from it now. I find 'Human Sacrifice' a great song and can hum one or two others, but all in all not my favourite ALW score. Would have loved to see it, but missed it at the time. |
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Post by learfan on Jan 23, 2020 11:26:41 GMT
45? More like 60 odd, that was the early 60s so you would have to been born in the 1950s to have any idea of that world still very much in the shadow of WW2. My childhood was the 70s and we were taught by teachers who had fought in WW2, and had relatives and neighbours with stories to tell. The atmosphere was still to an extent absolute, and people still mostly "knew their place" I'd say. My childhood was in the 70s too. I dont recall being taught by anyone old enough to have fought in the war, i didnt know anyone who's parents had either. |
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Post by learfan on Jan 23, 2020 11:29:16 GMT
45? More like 60 odd, that was the early 60s so you would have to been born in the 1950s to have any idea of that world still very much in the shadow of WW2. My childhood was the 70s and we were taught by teachers who had fought in WW2, and had relatives and neighbours with stories to tell. The atmosphere was still to an extent absolute, and people still mostly "knew their place" I'd say. Really? I grew up in the 70s too and knew noone who had fought in the war. It was much "a foreign country" to me and my family and friends. |
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Post by paulbrownsey on Jan 23, 2020 11:33:07 GMT
It really was one of those moments that signified changing times. Then there’s the Christine Keeler F+++++! us all, theory. This explains modern British politics as follows. As each election came along the Conservative Party would promise to run a tight ship, cut taxes and spend a bit more on the police and defence. Labour would counter by promising to spend wisely, with a bit more for the NHS and pay for it with higher taxes on the rich. Governments changed, but post war the National Debt as a proportion of GDP routinely fell. When the Profumo affair broke the elderly MacMillan saw an election disaster looming and in desperation promised to keep taxes as they were, but spend more for the benefit of each of the electorate “You’ve never had it so good”. This left Labour at a loss and so they promised to spend even more on each of us. This spending “Arms race” has continued ever since and we have been running at a deficit for more years than not. (This is how it was explained to me and yes I recognise that the man gets off scot free). My recollection is that "You've Never Had It So Good" stems from an earlier election. |
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Post by Jan on Jan 23, 2020 11:36:38 GMT
My childhood was the 70s and we were taught by teachers who had fought in WW2, and had relatives and neighbours with stories to tell. The atmosphere was still to an extent absolute, and people still mostly "knew their place" I'd say. My childhood was in the 70s too. I dont recall being taught by anyone old enough to have fought in the war, i didnt know anyone who's parents had either. With you on that TheatreMonkey - at school in the 70's I had several teachers who had fought in the war, one had been a Squadron Leader and another had been in the army and had his hearing damaged by artillery. Anyone who was 20 in 1939 would only have been in their 50s throughout the 1970s so it is perfectly possible. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jan 23, 2020 12:11:21 GMT
I got earache from the musical!
What I don't understand from the BBC adaption is how SW met the two woman and how he knows various cabinet members. Also how does his home get to be used in the way it is?
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Jan 23, 2020 14:00:50 GMT
I saw this in previews, as it was comped - I couldn't walk out. Honestly wish I did.
The problem is; I had no idea of the history / context - maybe that was my own ignorance but even still - it felt incredibly self indulgent and wasn't made clear. I was sat next to this couple and they asked if I was enjoying it but I said it's not something I ever knew about...
'1963.' LITERALLY the only song I remember. And then a lot of spanking in Act 2...
The casting for Christine aggravated me a lot; couldn't sing - it was speak singing / very weak - bizarre.
In a nutshell. WAS NOT A FAN.
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Post by justfran on Jan 23, 2020 21:00:22 GMT
I got earache from the musical! What I don't understand from the BBC adaption is how SW met the two woman and how he knows various cabinet members. Also how does his home get to be used in the way it is? I think they explained in the TV show that Stephen Ward met the two girls at a club they were working in. He knew politicians and various society people via his work as an osteopath and being upper class himself I think. |
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Post by steve10086 on Jan 26, 2020 11:42:09 GMT
Just caught up with last weeks episode of The Trial of Christine Keeler. Made me angry all over again.
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Post by Sotongal on Jan 27, 2020 18:17:40 GMT
There's an interview with Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber about Stephen Ward and The Profumo Affair in the Daily Mail (!) which touches on him writing Stephen Ward:The Musical. "... With the playwright Christopher Hampton and lyricist Don Black, I embarked on turning Ward's story into a stage spectacular. Some context: I was not a well man at the time, suffering from serious complications after treatment for back pain by (oh, the irony) a highly recommended osteopath. I was spaced out on super-strength painkillers. Looking back, I realise morphine and musicals don't mix. Large parts of the writing of Stephen Ward: The Musical are a blank to me. I don't recall how I got to the show's first night in 2014, for instance. I am proud of many of the songs and truly believe that, although it was deeply flawed, it had the bones of a terrific musical. But it closed after three months, causing me to recall the words of U.S. theatre impresario Jimmy Nederlander Sr, who once told me: 'There is no limit to the number of people who won't buy tickets to a show they don't want to see.' Perhaps if I'd called it Mandy And Christine: The Musical, it would still be playing to packed houses. Who knows?" www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7932095/ANDREW-LLOYD-WEBBER-asks-real-Profumo-story-locked-vault.html |
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Post by steve10086 on Jan 27, 2020 19:27:49 GMT
There's an interview with Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber about Stephen Ward and The Profumo Affair in the Daily Mail (!) which touches on him writing Stephen Ward:The Musical. "... With the playwright Christopher Hampton and lyricist Don Black, I embarked on turning Ward's story into a stage spectacular. Some context: I was not a well man at the time, suffering from serious complications after treatment for back pain by (oh, the irony) a highly recommended osteopath. I was spaced out on super-strength painkillers. Looking back, I realise morphine and musicals don't mix. Large parts of the writing of Stephen Ward: The Musical are a blank to me. I don't recall how I got to the show's first night in 2014, for instance. I am proud of many of the songs and truly believe that, although it was deeply flawed, it had the bones of a terrific musical. But it closed after three months, causing me to recall the words of U.S. theatre impresario Jimmy Nederlander Sr, who once told me: 'There is no limit to the number of people who won't buy tickets to a show they don't want to see.' Perhaps if I'd called it Mandy And Christine: The Musical, it would still be playing to packed houses. Who knows?" www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7932095/ANDREW-LLOYD-WEBBER-asks-real-Profumo-story-locked-vault.htmlNever misses an opportunity to blame the morphine! |
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Post by Mr Snow on Jan 28, 2020 22:41:45 GMT
My childhood was in the 70s too. I dont recall being taught by anyone old enough to have fought in the war, i didnt know anyone who's parents had either. With you on that TheatreMonkey - at school in the 70's I had several teachers who had fought in the war, one had been a Squadron Leader and another had been in the army and had his hearing damaged by artillery. Anyone who was 20 in 1939 would only have been in their 50s throughout the 1970s so it is perfectly possible. We had a maths teacher, Mr Stephenson, who we all respected as a terrific man - a great teacher. At the end of one term he got drawn on his time as a pilot n the RAF. He said he was embarrassed to admit it, but he'd never felt more alive than when he shot down an enemy plane. He had spent 40+ years wondering what happened to that young pilot,"who must have been very similar to myself". (This was late 70's and he was putting off retirement.) |
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Post by distantcousin on Jan 28, 2020 23:16:49 GMT
I really enjoyed Stephen Ward. Remember it fondly. I am way too young to remember the Profumo Affair. I learnt a bit about it when "Scandal" came out (but was too young to watch the film) and asked my Dad about it. He filled me in on the less salacious details. It's intrigued me ever since.
I thought the musical had a lot going for it. They clearly used Christine's autobiography as a reference, because some scenes in the show are almost identical to chapters of the book.
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Post by djp on Feb 15, 2020 21:55:43 GMT
With you on that TheatreMonkey - at school in the 70's I had several teachers who had fought in the war, one had been a Squadron Leader and another had been in the army and had his hearing damaged by artillery. Anyone who was 20 in 1939 would only have been in their 50s throughout the 1970s so it is perfectly possible. We had a maths teacher, Mr Stephenson, who we all respected as a terrific man - a great teacher. At the end of one term he got drawn on his time as a pilot n the RAF. He said he was embarrassed to admit it, but he'd never felt more alive than when he shot down an enemy plane. He had spent 40+ years wondering what happened to that young pilot,"who must have been very similar to myself". (This was late 70's and he was putting off retirement.) Deputy head was a desert rat and always talking about Monty...thats what you got in the 70s. Many teachers were brought into teaching post war when demobbed and sent off to pick up degrees. |
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Post by djp on Feb 15, 2020 22:12:03 GMT
I saw this in previews, as it was comped - I couldn't walk out. Honestly wish I did. The problem is; I had no idea of the history / context - maybe that was my own ignorance but even still - it felt incredibly self indulgent and wasn't made clear. I was sat next to this couple and they asked if I was enjoying it but I said it's not something I ever knew about... '1963.' LITERALLY the only song I remember. And then a lot of spanking in Act 2... The casting for Christine aggravated me a lot; couldn't sing - it was speak singing / very weak - bizarre. In a nutshell. WAS NOT A FAN. Its a real problem . To remember Profumo, or the Cuban Missile crisis , with any awareness you would now have to be into your 70s, and schools seem to fail to teach modern history , and/or have no one qualified to teach it.
Its a political problem too in that when one generation talk about devaluation, the three day week, winter of discontent, inflation , or threat of war , later generations have no recollection or understanding. And the poll of Labour members where most reported no knowledge of Wilson or Attlee's governments poses problems for any real argument about whats a continuation of policy and whats an entirely new direction.
The historic problem though with Stephen Ward isn't that people don't remember, its that the story isn't all known because it involves the intelligence services,and precisely what Ward was doing, for whom, remains in a strongroom. And you can't judge the reason for this when it could just be political expediency, or the fact that intelligence recruitments can have consequences if revealed , down through successive generations.
Its not only that the story is unknown to the vast majority, its also that the answers are locked up, and few, or no, people are left alive who even know them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 22:23:17 GMT
I really enjoyed this when it was on actually. It has its flaws but the score has a couple of standouts - This Side of The Sky is classic ALW. On reflection I think it’s one of those intimate type of shows that don’t work in a west end theatre - if he had The Other Palace back then, I think it would have had an easier time opening there. Hopefully the fringe pick it up at some point and give it a go.
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Post by dgjbear on Feb 17, 2020 10:42:12 GMT
I liked elements of this show - though I have always been intrigued by the Profumo case. Some of the songs are awful and the show itself looked like it cost all of £25 to put on. But there are parts that are great and Alex Hanson was v good in it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 15:22:26 GMT
I don't know if it's been mentioned but I saw another Christine Keeler musical at Greenwich Theatre in (as Google tells me) 2007, with Emma Williams as Keeler. I can't remember too much about it, only that it didn't really work. It was called 'Model Girl'.
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