ALW's The Illusionist (Dir. Jamie Lloyd)

[oxfordsimon]

Freud might be the central character...

Has to be better than the one in Friends

[oxfordsimon]

A Dangerous Method could make for a fascinating chamber piece

[chernjam]

If it is the illusionist - perhaps that was the issue about the rights that kept him from officially announcing it till now.

Happy to see he's working with a new book writer after the Cinderella flop with Emeril

[blamerobots]

Sept 29, 2024 18:55:27 GMT chernjam said:

If it is the illusionist - perhaps that was the issue about the rights that kept him from officially announcing it till now.

Would make sense also with the other Illusionist musical; the Japanese one was delayed and then further delayed in the pandemic so if ALW was waiting for rights it might have been a matter of waiting that one out.

[mattnyc]

ALW said something in there about things that have never been done on stage before (or something like that), so that would fit in with “The Illusionist”, I suppose.

[Someone in a tree]

The Illusionist will give him lots of opportunities to hide his writing behind endless special effects

[blamerobots]

Sept 30, 2024 7:45:02 GMT Someone in a tree said:

The Illusionist will give him lots of opportunities to hide his writing behind endless special effects

Hey, if Harry Potter can do that then maybe ALW can too

[max]

It does seem highly likely it’s ‘The Illusionist’. ALW has said it’s a film adaptation, and the film rather than Steven Millhauser's original short story seems a direct fit for him. Too much so?

In the Sunday Times interview he says 2023 was a bad year for him artistically and personally and “I just felt like I was doing so much that, frankly, was not me”. It’s a bit unclear if he includes ‘Cinderella’ in the ‘not me’ category. It would make sense though - trying too hard to fit in with young taste and failing on Broadway. But if you find another property and think ‘ah, now this is so me’ maybe that’s because you’ve done it already?

‘The Illusionist' film has a vulnerable woman contested over by two men - one aristocratic, one a mysterious artistic loner. He’s done that story shape three times already with ‘The Phantom Of The Opera’, ‘Love Never Dies’, and ‘Whistle Down The Wind’. At a stretch you could call it four, with Joe in ‘Sunset Boulevard’ pulled between two worlds and realities.

It’s tantalising that the film of ‘The Illusionist’ was released in 2006, and ‘Love Never Dies’ first staged in 2010. If only he’d spotted the film then, because the non-Americana elements of that score could have been put to better use. The film even has a story element where the magician buys a theatre for the express purpose of capturing his love and avenging a foe. ‘Devil Take The Hindmost’ would fit right in as the rivals’ stand-off. The mistreatment of a woman by a high-born man, and a mystery over whether she’s really dead or not, chime strongly with ‘The Woman In White’.

The short story the film was based on doesn’t have any of that grand romantic love triangle (I found a PDF of it online). A couple of elements made me chuckle though. As the illusionist creates apparitions on stage, audience members pass their hands through them, and recoil in shock. Three times Millhauser writes that their hands “passed through empty air”. I can imagine the memo from Glen Slater: ‘See? I told you ‘empty air’ was fine!” When the short story tells of the illusionist’s youth, we find that he got into magic after following his father who was a cabinet maker, so his son eventually made cabinets and contraptions for magicians. Didn’t ALW already write a musical about a bloke whose dad was a carpenter? 

But seriously, it’s absolutely perfect for Lloyd Webber in his high romance mode - but that’s not the one I enjoy so much. 'Perfect because it’s the same again' gives me doubts.

[marob]

The special effects thing would fit as the guy he’s collaborating with wrote Batman vs Superman, Justice League and The Rise of Skywalker. 😂

[BVM]

Sept 29, 2024 18:55:27 GMT chernjam said:

If it is the illusionist - perhaps that was the issue about the rights that kept him from officially announcing it till now.

Happy to see he's working with a new book writer after the Cinderella flop with Emeril

I do agree with you. At the risk of bringing up poor beleaguered Cinderella, which overexcites a lot of people, the amount of blame ALW got for its book/story baffled me. Yes I know he’s a driving force and has creative sway, but Emerald wrote the book (which I liked incidentally; though it clearly wasn’t universally popular).

[max]

Sept 30, 2024 9:29:03 GMT marob said:

The special effects thing would fit as the guy he’s collaborating with wrote Batman vs Superman, Justice League and The Rise of Skywalker. 😂

If it is 'The Illusionist' it's interesting that he's not adapting with the writer of the film screenplay - who presumably is responsible for all the elements that aren't in the short story, and feel most Lloyd Webber-like.

About Effects - in the interview Lloyd Webber confirms an immersive 'The Phantom Of The Opera' for New York, presumably on the site just reported as purchased (so site specific or a building completely adaptable for the needs). This chimes with what he's said in the last year about theatre becoming more immersive. 'The Illusionist' also provides plenty of opportunity for performers sitting amongst the audience, the magician talking directly to the audience with houselights up. Police storm the stage at one point in the short story version.  It's possible the same illusions team would work on both shows. 

[blamerobots]

Sept 30, 2024 9:29:03 GMT marob said:

The special effects thing would fit as the guy he’s collaborating with wrote Batman vs Superman, Justice League and The Rise of Skywalker. 😂

Suddenly all hope is gone!

[BVM]

Literally nothing would please me more than ALW writing another mega musical but I do think one has to be realistic.
- Music wise his recent style is Cinderella/Stephen Ward/Love Never Dies (all of which I loved but aren’t in the Phantom/Sunset sphere).
- Michael Harrison is not the kind of producer who spends a penny more than he needs to
- His revivals are doing a lot better then new works in the current resurgence
- Sung through (more or less) lush original musicals tragically struggle hugely in the current climate.

Having said all that I’m so pleased he’s written a new musical and whether it’s a commercial success or not I’ll remain very excited about it and can’t wait to hear it. I do also think Michael Harrison does seem to understand audiences and marketing and is a great producing help for ALW. Something of a new Bill. And not a yes man. So I’m very cautiously optimistic this could fly. And at least do better than Stephen Ward’s 4 months!

(I don’t really count School of Rock in this discussion as it was a very different and somewhat random beast).

[singingbird]

Sept 30, 2024 9:28:34 GMT max said:

It does seem highly likely it’s ‘The Illusionist’. ALW has said it’s a film adaptation, and the film rather than Steven Millhauser's original short story seems a direct fit for him. Too much so?

In the Sunday Times interview he says 2023 was a bad year for him artistically and personally and “I just felt like I was doing so much that, frankly, was not me”. It’s a bit unclear if he includes ‘Cinderella’ in the ‘not me’ category. It would make sense though - trying too hard to fit in with young taste and failing on Broadway. But if you find another property and think ‘ah, now this is so me’ maybe that’s because you’ve done it already?

‘The Illusionist' film has a vulnerable woman contested over by two men - one aristocratic, one a mysterious artistic loner. He’s done that story shape three times already with ‘The Phantom Of The Opera’, ‘Love Never Dies’, and ‘Whistle Down The Wind’. At a stretch you could call it four, with Joe in ‘Sunset Boulevard’ pulled between two worlds and realities.

It’s tantalising that the film of ‘The Illusionist’ was released in 2006, and ‘Love Never Dies’ first staged in 2010. If only he’d spotted the film then, because the non-Americana elements of that score could have been put to better use. The film even has a story element where the magician buys a theatre for the express purpose of capturing his love and avenging a foe. ‘Devil Take The Hindmost’ would fit right in as the rivals’ stand-off. The mistreatment of a woman by a high-born man, and a mystery over whether she’s really dead or not, chime strongly with ‘The Woman In White’.

The short story the film was based on doesn’t have any of that grand romantic love triangle (I found a PDF of it online). A couple of elements made me chuckle though. As the illusionist creates apparitions on stage, audience members pass their hands through them, and recoil in shock. Three times Millhauser writes that their hands “passed through empty air”. I can imagine the memo from Glen Slater: ‘See? I told you ‘empty air’ was fine!” When the short story tells of the illusionist’s youth, we find that he got into magic after following his father who was a cabinet maker, so his son eventually made cabinets and contraptions for magicians. Didn’t ALW already write a musical about a bloke whose dad was a carpenter? 

But seriously, it’s absolutely perfect for Lloyd Webber in his high romance mode - but that’s not the one I enjoy so much. 'Perfect because it’s the same again' gives me doubts.

Very interesting. I too thought that it's a shame that the Love Never Dies score wasn't applied to this film's plot. Much of it would be a perfect fit, and it's a plot that actually works, unlike the mess that is LND.



Interesting too that he was so down on 2023. I know he had severe personal problems, but professionally, despite the crash and burn of Cinders, the revival of Sunset was the best received theatrical work he'd had in a long long time. I do worry about him falling too far back on composing work that he thinks is 'very me', as after both Whistle and Woman in White he subsequently commented that he felt he was repeating himself. Personally, if it is The Illusionist, I think that would be a great subject for him, but it really needs him to approach the score with some astringency and modernism, rather than just wallowing in sweeping romanticism.



His best work has always been somewhat repetitive. So many of his shows start at the end (or after the end) and then flashback. So many have opposing social factions placed up against each other and focus on the individuals caught in the middle. So many, as you say, feature a vulnerable individual being seduced/manipulated by people who desire them. I have no problem with this. But I hope the music isn’t just a re-tread of Phantom-style high romance, but plays with darker, harsher tones.

[max]

Sept 30, 2024 9:55:46 GMT BVM said:

Literally nothing would please me more than ALW writing another mega musical but I do think one has to be realistic.
- Music wise his recent style is Cinderella/Stephen Ward/Love Never Dies (all of which I loved but aren’t in the Phantom/Sunset sphere).
- Michael Harrison is not the kind of producer who spends a penny more than he needs to
- His revivals are doing a lot better then new works in the current resurgence
- Sung through (more or less) lush original musicals tragically struggle hugely in the current climate.

Having said all that I’m so pleased he’s written a new musical and whether it’s a commercial success or not I’ll remain very excited about it and can’t wait to hear it. I do also think Michael Harrison does seem to understand audiences and marketing and is a great producing help for ALW. Something of a new Bill. And not a yes man. So I’m very cautiously optimistic this could fly. And at least do better than Stephen Ward’s 4 months!

(I don’t really count School of Rock in this discussion as it was a very different and somewhat random beast).

Agreed on sung through being out of fashion.  ALW says in the interview that the musical theatre form "has gone backwards" - if he elaborated they haven't put that to print unfortunately. From around the time of 'Legally Blonde' in the West End, Musical Comedy has been in the ascendent. The skill of transitioning from dialogue to song is often no longer needed, even if not sung through. Comedy is made of the awkward transition (Mamma Mia), or songs are very featured as specifically set-pieces, with a mic being brought on. Is this going backwards? For my taste, yes. But a casual bonhomie with the audience, a knowing wink, and acknowlegement that 'hey, it's a show, we're not hiding that' could be said to strip away the distance and coldness of theatre, to speak direct to various cluster of community/audience. I just preferred it when interesting people found an interesting subject, and dared to open up others' interest - not reflect back the audience's identity and tribe to them as the core selling point.

I think ALW should draw more lessons from 'School Of Rock' though. He really had something he wanted to say via that show, about the power of music, and the need for music education.  That clarity of purpose is missing from too many of his shows.

[Jon]

I don't think it's a bad thing for musicals to be simply entertaining, no one wants to have to sit through sad slogs all the time.

[viserys]

Sept 30, 2024 10:18:32 GMT max said:

From around the time of 'Legally Blonde' in the West End, Musical Comedy has been in the ascendent.

I'm just back from a week on Broadway and I feel that the mood there has already changed from that deluge of comedy and teen-oriented shows: One of the surprise hits of the season is The Great Gatsby, which, while not sung-through, harkens back to the "mega-musical" period with big stage sets, big show numbers and VERY big ballads. The Notebook and Water for Elephants, while not big successes, both play for a general, more mature audience. The Outsiders, arguably the biggest hit of the season, may be set among teenagers, but doesn't play to a teenage audience like the earlier deluge (Evan Hansen, Mean Girls, Heathers and so on) with more mature music and a subject, much like West Side Story before it, that transcends age.

So maybe this is actually ALW indeed being back LEADING the zeitgeist, the way he did in the 80s with innovative, ground-breaking shows like Cats and Starlight Express rather than trying to chase some elusive zeitgeist he couldn't get a handle on anyway as he tried with Cinderella.

Sept 30, 2024 10:18:32 GMT max said:

I think ALW should draw more lessons from 'School Of Rock' though. He really had something he wanted to say via that show, about the power of music, and the need for music education.  That clarity of purpose is missing from too many of his shows.

Very good point, yes, the show had a heart and a true purpose and that, too, despite being "about kids" spoke to people of all ages and he worked with a good lyricist there (while I don't like the Cinderella book, by far the worst about it are the godawful lyrics that make it impossible to listen to even the songs with great melodies).

Furthermore - I don't care if he "copies himself", he's certainly proven that he can write great music in different genres from hard rock via pop to pseudo opera. He is not a hack like Frank Wildhorn who churns out exactly the same show 20 times music-wise. If he returns to a style he does really well and respects the music of turn of the century Vienna as well, I'm absolutely here for it.

[blamerobots]

Yes, all I really want from him is honesty and something that's freeing for him. When viewing Cinderella I didn't feel any honesty or in a show like Stephen Ward. School of Rock was the last work that convinced me there was a soul behind the music.

Sept 30, 2024 10:33:30 GMT viserys said:

not a hack like Frank Wildhorn

Those are fighting words... Every show might not be a hit but I'll defend him for the songs I like!

[viserys]

Sept 30, 2024 10:38:49 GMT blamerobots said:

Sept 30, 2024 10:33:30 GMT viserys said:

not a hack like Frank Wildhorn

Those are fighting words... Every show might not be a hit but I'll defend him for the songs I like!

I have no beef with his SONGS - some of his songs like "This is the moment" or "You are my home" are all-time favorites of mine and I felt that The Civil War, where he didn't try to tell a tale and just wrote a bunch of great songs, was excellent as a song cycle. 

But I HATE how he lazily churns out show after show sounding exactly the same and I have no respect for that. That said, I feel it's easier to like him in the UK (or even US) where only a few of his (better) shows like Bonnie & Clyde have seen the light of day, while we here have been inundated with all the shows that were lazily churned out for a paycheck, while playing fast and lose with European history and literature. But I digress, this thread is about ALW and hopefully his resurrection! 

[blamerobots]

Sept 30, 2024 10:54:39 GMT viserys said:

But I HATE how he lazily churns out show after show sounding exactly the same and I have no respect for that.

I do find this is the case with his foreign stuffs. But yes, ALW!

I'd love a return to his sung-through material considering all his recent revival hits have all mostly been his sung-through shows, but this sounds like it's going to be more of a straightfoward musical with book scenes, which has me concerned. I feel like ALW is at his best when he's working sung-through, even though it's a lot of work, his work feels so atmospheric when he just gets to put his music everywhere he wants. He could do underscoring I suppose in a show like this that could really work. The Illusionist could be wonderfully melodramatic like Phantom which has such a thick atmosphere.

[BVM]

Sept 30, 2024 10:18:32 GMT max said:

Sept 30, 2024 9:55:46 GMT BVM said:

Literally nothing would please me more than ALW writing another mega musical but I do think one has to be realistic.
- Music wise his recent style is Cinderella/Stephen Ward/Love Never Dies (all of which I loved but aren’t in the Phantom/Sunset sphere).
- Michael Harrison is not the kind of producer who spends a penny more than he needs to
- His revivals are doing a lot better then new works in the current resurgence
- Sung through (more or less) lush original musicals tragically struggle hugely in the current climate.

Having said all that I’m so pleased he’s written a new musical and whether it’s a commercial success or not I’ll remain very excited about it and can’t wait to hear it. I do also think Michael Harrison does seem to understand audiences and marketing and is a great producing help for ALW. Something of a new Bill. And not a yes man. So I’m very cautiously optimistic this could fly. And at least do better than Stephen Ward’s 4 months!

(I don’t really count School of Rock in this discussion as it was a very different and somewhat random beast).

Agreed on sung through being out of fashion.  ALW says in the interview that the musical theatre form "has gone backwards" - if he elaborated they haven't put that to print unfortunately. From around the time of 'Legally Blonde' in the West End, Musical Comedy has been in the ascendent. The skill of transitioning from dialogue to song is often no longer needed, even if not sung through. Comedy is made of the awkward transition (Mamma Mia), or songs are very featured as specifically set-pieces, with a mic being brought on. Is this going backwards? For my taste, yes. But a casual bonhomie with the audience, a knowing wink, and acknowlegement that 'hey, it's a show, we're not hiding that' could be said to strip away the distance and coldness of theatre, to speak direct to various cluster of community/audience. I just preferred it when interesting people found an interesting subject, and dared to open up others' interest - not reflect back the audience's identity and tribe to them as the core selling point.

I think ALW should draw more lessons from 'School Of Rock' though. He really had something he wanted to say via that show, about the power of music, and the need for music education.  That clarity of purpose is missing from too many of his shows.

Oh I totally agree - the musical theatre form has gone backwards at alarming speed. The skill of constructing a sung through or almost sung through (plus underscoring) musical, using themes and motifs and all the narrative driving music required is something we rarely see now.

As I’ve got older I’ve realised how this style isn’t in fact the norm and I was just lucky to grow up in the 70’s/80’s/90’s when this style was at it’s peak. In a way we’ve gone back to how things used to be with discrete songs. Though IMHO the melodies before this era had more longevity than those now.

Agree he had something to say with School of Rock. But it wasn’t a musically led project for him at the start. The initial plan had been to use songs from the film and other classic rock songs. Then he wrote a couple of songs himself. Then a few more. So none of it was massively agonised on musically (some may say it made it sound better). But anyway it ended up bang on trend as it was based on a popular film and the music was only about 50% of the show. Also I think it’s fair to say none of the songs are gonna be seen as MT classics/staples when the history books are written! Of course I could be wrong 🤷🏻‍♂️.

[Jon]

Musicals have always evolved and I think it's strange people are bemoaning the lack of sung through musicals. The fact we have more musical comedies is not a bad thing, some of the biggest hits of the 20th and 21st century are musical comedies.

[thedrowsychaperone]

I'm just waiting for a small-scale Stephen Ward reimagining to pop up somewhere...

(...and why the f aren't more regional theatres doing By Jeeves?!?)

[BVM]

Sept 30, 2024 11:31:57 GMT Jon said:

Musicals have always evolved and I think it's strange people are bemoaning the lack of sung through musicals. The fact we have more musical comedies is not a bad thing, some of the biggest hits of the 20th and 21st century are musical comedies.

I dunno, I think it’s normal to bemoan the lack of something if you are a fan of it. If you love sung through musicals you’re gonna be frustrated that there aren’t many new ones.

But you can say that whilst also appreciating that musicals evolve and recognising, as I do, that your personal preferences are often not in line with what is currently popular!

[blamerobots]

Sept 30, 2024 11:37:59 GMT thedrowsychaperone said:

I'm just waiting for a small-scale Stephen Ward reimagining to pop up somewhere...

(...and why the f aren't more regional theatres doing By Jeeves?!?)

Is there much to reimagine in Stephen Ward