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Post by inthenose on Jun 23, 2022 5:17:44 GMT
Gotta say, this looks rather brilliant...
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Post by viserys on Jun 23, 2022 5:40:57 GMT
I didn't hate Thriller Live, which seemed to be the most-hated show on the forum while it ran, and this looks much more professional and classy. Also a sure-fire money spinner. Wouldn't rush out to see it immediately, but wouldn't mind seeing it for the dancing. At least Michael Jackson was part of my generation's soundtrack. The older stuff (Drifters, now Temptations coming in) leaves me completely cold.
Would like for Ivano Turco to get a chance to really shine in a great leading part after the fairly drippy princeling and all the negativity now sticking to Cinderella like old gum to a shoe.
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Post by danb on Jun 23, 2022 10:11:52 GMT
If he can sing it too that’d be great. I was crazy for MJ across the ‘Bad’ tour period. He was a fantastic ‘live’ performer and those shows were lightening in a bottle moments. His later tours were all a bit derivative, but along with Madonna’s ‘Who's That Girl’ & ‘Blonde Ambition’ I think he started the modern pop show.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 23, 2022 17:32:32 GMT
Gotta say, this looks rather brilliant... It does but it won’t be getting my ££. I also think it’s questionable to introduce dance legends like Fred Astaire and others to “normalise” MJ or to somehow classify him as equal. No. Also I don’t think they should conflate these icons with the weirdo that was MJ. Even if you take the alleged paedophilia out of the equation his life was far far far from normal and nothing that should be held up as an example. The tragedy of his plastic surgery, the spending, the children who were very obviously nothing to do with him other than him claiming fatherhood. It’s a total sh*t show. Thrre is nothing about Michael Jackson that merits celebration. |
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Post by inthenose on Jun 23, 2022 17:41:59 GMT
Well it's definitely a show I'll be seeing, each to their own.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2022 18:12:43 GMT
Gotta say, this looks rather brilliant... It does but it won’t be getting my ££. I also think it’s questionable to introduce dance legends like Fred Astaire and others to “normalise” MJ or to somehow classify him as equal. No. Also I don’t think they should conflate these icons with the weirdo that was MJ. Even if you take the alleged paedophilia out of the equation his life was far far far from normal and nothing that should be held up as an example. The tragedy of his plastic surgery, the spending, the children who were very obviously nothing to do with him other than him claiming fatherhood. It’s a total sh*t show. Thrre is nothing about Michael Jackson that merits celebration. As a victim of sexual abuse as a child, I had a hard time accepting this was being staged. But I also usher at the show. It's fantastically well done, and the cast is astonishing. Myles should transfer with it. But still, all the stories and allegations weigh on me. However, Michael was incredibly talented and that talent and craft is what merits celebration. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jun 23, 2022 19:37:30 GMT
Gotta say, this looks rather brilliant... It does but it won’t be getting my ££. I also think it’s questionable to introduce dance legends like Fred Astaire and others to “normalise” MJ or to somehow classify him as equal. No. Also I don’t think they should conflate these icons with the weirdo that was MJ. Even if you take the alleged paedophilia out of the equation his life was far far far from normal and nothing that should be held up as an example. The tragedy of his plastic surgery, the spending, the children who were very obviously nothing to do with him other than him claiming fatherhood. It’s a total sh*t show. Thrre is nothing about Michael Jackson that merits celebration. A staged concert is the only way to celebrate the music without placing undue focus on the man and his flaws. And we essentially had that for many, many, many years with Thriller. Most people are able to separate the man from his music. But the idea of celebrating his life is just wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2022 20:04:07 GMT
I don't think it celebrates his life. I've seen it many times as I usher for it. It celebrates his musical talent. They allude to allegations (the show takes place when they were first starting to surface). They talk about the plastic surgery. They talk about his drug use.
The reason why Fred Astaire, et al are there is because they were who influenced him in dance. The number actually uses their styles to show how it transformed into and influenced what Michael did. It's quite clever, especially when considering the entire show takes place in the rehearsal studio for the Dangerous tour. We are watching an artist, albeit a complicated and controversial one, at work.
I'm not a Michael Jackson fan inherently. I like "The Way You Make Me Feel" a lot. "Man in the Mirror"'s great. Some of The Jackson's Five songs were wonderful. But ultimately, I'm not really all that big of a fan. I AM however a fan of the musical - and again, I say this as a victim. And to be clear, I don't have a stake in the show. I usher at all Nederlander venues, so I hop around. I've got other work if it closes. I think it's a well done bio musical about a complicated figure.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 24, 2022 9:38:53 GMT
I don't think it celebrates his life. I've seen it many times as I usher for it. It celebrates his musical talent. They allude to allegations (the show takes place when they were first starting to surface). They talk about the plastic surgery. They talk about his drug use. On that basis we can look forward to R Kelly The Musical? Yes he’s a sex offender but let’s celebrate the music. I can’t get that to work for me. |
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Post by mrnutz on Jun 24, 2022 9:42:24 GMT
Gary Glitter had a few popular tunes as well.
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Post by stuartmcd on Jun 24, 2022 9:54:26 GMT
These are such juvenile arguments in my opinion. “What about these people that did horrible things?” You mean those people who were found guilty and as such shouldn’t be celebrated in any way?
We can all agree that MJ had a messy and questionable life. And yes there were allegations that we are all very much aware of. But was he found guilty? No. Now you can go down your conspiracy theory holes and for all we know he could be as guilty as sin. So if you feel like you don’t want to support this show then it’s understandable. But I don’t think anybody else should be made to feel bad about wanting to see it either.
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Post by og on Jun 24, 2022 10:18:23 GMT
I don't think it celebrates his life. I've seen it many times as I usher for it. It celebrates his musical talent. They allude to allegations (the show takes place when they were first starting to surface). They talk about the plastic surgery. They talk about his drug use. On that basis we can look forward to R Kelly The Musical? Yes he’s a sex offender but let’s celebrate the music. I can’t get that to work for me. Some didn't feel comfortable celebrating the Queen's Jubliee given her protection of her sexually abusive son along with the long standing institutional racism shown by the monarchy. Were you in that camp too, or were you happy to throw those issues aside for the sake of some platty joobs? |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 24, 2022 10:21:16 GMT
Long Live The Queen! 😊
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Post by og on Jun 24, 2022 10:36:35 GMT
Double standards much then. See you at opening night for MJ!
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Post by danb on Jun 24, 2022 10:53:11 GMT
MJ is dead and cannot profit from this. His ‘children’ who have done nothing wrong still can.
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Post by inthenose on Jun 24, 2022 16:13:26 GMT
This is always going to be divisive, and this conversation will happen again and again in the coming years...
I'm looking forward to a bloody great night of brilliant songs and dancing, and my opinion of Jackson as a man isn't going to be altered either way.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 24, 2022 18:50:08 GMT
These are such juvenile arguments in my opinion. “What about these people that did horrible things?” You mean those people who were found guilty and as such shouldn’t be celebrated in any way? We can all agree that MJ had a messy and questionable life. And yes there were allegations that we are all very much aware of. But was he found guilty? No. Now you can go down your conspiracy theory holes and for all we know he could be as guilty as sin. So if you feel like you don’t want to support this show then it’s understandable. But I don’t think anybody else should be made to feel bad about wanting to see it either. Do you think any part of this discussion has been intended to make anyone feel bad for seeing it? I really don’t see that. I think we are just discussing how we personally feel about it. |
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Post by stuartmcd on Jun 24, 2022 21:19:40 GMT
These are such juvenile arguments in my opinion. “What about these people that did horrible things?” You mean those people who were found guilty and as such shouldn’t be celebrated in any way? We can all agree that MJ had a messy and questionable life. And yes there were allegations that we are all very much aware of. But was he found guilty? No. Now you can go down your conspiracy theory holes and for all we know he could be as guilty as sin. So if you feel like you don’t want to support this show then it’s understandable. But I don’t think anybody else should be made to feel bad about wanting to see it either. Do you think any part of this discussion has been intended to make anyone feel bad for seeing it? I really don’t see that. I think we are just discussing how we personally feel about it. Absolutely. By throwing around names of convicted pedophiles and sexual offenders the suggestion is that people on this board would be happy to see musicals based on those people as well because they are interested in this show. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2022 1:58:02 GMT
I don't think it celebrates his life. I've seen it many times as I usher for it. It celebrates his musical talent. They allude to allegations (the show takes place when they were first starting to surface). They talk about the plastic surgery. They talk about his drug use. On that basis we can look forward to R Kelly The Musical? Yes he’s a sex offender but let’s celebrate the music. I can’t get that to work for me. Michael Jackson was never convicted. He was found innocent in a court of law. I'm not sure I agree with that. But that's a fact. I'd also argue that R. Kelly and Michael Jackson are on completely different levels of talent. |
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Post by kathryn on Jun 25, 2022 11:18:48 GMT
Savile never faced the courts but there is no doubting his guilt. Although of a different nature, the allegations about Jackson are serious enough to leave question marks as to whether his life should be celebrated. I can separate the man from his music which is why a show like Thriller is less problematic as it is essentially a fancy concert. I meant Michael Jackson Jackson wasn't convicted for the same reason Savile wasn’t. Fame. If he’d not been famous he’d have been convicted long since. He’s also likely still be alive - the same fame and money that allowed him to get away with molesting boys also allowed him unfettered access to the drugs that ultimately killed him. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2022 11:28:36 GMT
The problem is with Michael Jackson is there will forever be question marks. There are some kids that said he did do stuff, but also plenty who were in his company who said he didn't. There will always be the money argument, either he got away with it due to money and power or the people who are accusing him are going it for money.
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Post by apubleed on Jun 25, 2022 11:34:26 GMT
There is a very simple solution for those who have a problem with the idea of this show: don’t go!
Personally, after watching the Tony performance I can’t wait to see this show. I will leave the police and law courts to deal with crimes - I just want to enjoy art and Michael Jackson created a lot of art that they seem to represent well in this show.
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Post by Jon on Jun 25, 2022 11:47:26 GMT
Thriller ran for over a decade so I think MJ which looks far superior should find an audience,
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Post by kathryn on Jun 25, 2022 11:49:08 GMT
These are such juvenile arguments in my opinion. “What about these people that did horrible things?” You mean those people who were found guilty and as such shouldn’t be celebrated in any way? We can all agree that MJ had a messy and questionable life. And yes there were allegations that we are all very much aware of. But was he found guilty? No. Now you can go down your conspiracy theory holes and for all we know he could be as guilty as sin. So if you feel like you don’t want to support this show then it’s understandable. But I don’t think anybody else should be made to feel bad about wanting to see it either. He was as guilty as sin. The star witness in his defence now admits that he lied on the stand and was actually abused. You wouldn’t be giving the benefit of the doubt to a non-famous adult who had 5 separate accusations of abuse that all matched so closely in the details of their testimony (Jordan Chandler, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, James Safechuck, Jason Francia) and who behaved how Michael behaved in public with young children, as well as admitting that he had them sleep in his bed. Even the accounts of boys who say they were not abused describe situations that are dodgy as hell, like sharing alcohol with them when they were underage. You wouldn’t let a non-famous adult who behaved the way Jackson did anywhere *near* children. |
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Post by kathryn on Jun 25, 2022 11:59:11 GMT
The problem is with Michael Jackson is there will forever be question marks. There are some kids that said he did do stuff, but also plenty who were in his company who said he didn't. There will always be the money argument, either he got away with it due to money and power or the people who are accusing him are going it for money. Accusers were only paid off when Jackson was alive, to avoid criminal charges. No-one gets money from making accusations now. They get a huge amount of abuse instead from fans. There are plenty of cases where child abusers have been convicted who did not abuse every child they came into contact with. Savile didn’t, Barry Bennell and Bob Higgins (football coaches) didn’t. ‘Grooming’ functions to cultivate the relationship that facilitates abuse - it doesn’t work all the time, some kids and families are more vulnerable to it than others, and abusers often have a ‘type’, with other children (and charitable activities) being used as camouflage. |
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