Bonnie And Clyde - Drury Lane/Arts Theatre/Garrick/Tour

[fiyerorocher]

Aug 17, 2021 8:30:12 GMT @kevinuk said:

Honestly, I don’t see how it’s anyone else’s business. If it wasn’t for this thread reporting Twitter nonsense, I wouldn’t have even known about any of this unnecessary drama.

I'm not sure it's simply 'unnecessary drama' if it could have an affect on the casting of the concert this thread is about? Or, as some have suggested, whether the concert even goes ahead (although I think it doubtful they will cancel just because of Laura's absence).

[inthenose]

Aug 17, 2021 8:48:04 GMT danb said:

It does seem like a massive double standard from the all loving, inclusive theatre community. Accepting all doesn’t seem to extend to an anti-vax right wing zealot. The anti-vax bit seems to have given people the ‘permission’ they are seeking to attack. Medically it is selfish and troubling but morally she is allowed a stance.

100% this.

[forevercolours]

Aug 17, 2021 8:48:04 GMT danb said:

It does seem like a massive double standard from the all loving, inclusive theatre community. Accepting all doesn’t seem to extend to an anti-vax right wing zealot. The anti-vax bit seems to have given people the ‘permission’ they are seeking to attack. Medically it is selfish and troubling but morally she is allowed a stance.

Not sure if this argument really works. Accepting all also didn’t expand to Seyi Omooba after she was dropped from The Color Purple due to her homophobic beliefs. Is she allowed to have those opinions? Yes of course. Is it right for her to play a queer character and have these beliefs when working in an industry that typically celebrates LGBTQ+ individuals when she doesn’t recognise their choices and doesn’t think homosexuality is ‘right.’ The theatre community has the right to call out performers whose choices clearly jeopardise the industry. If she, or anyone else, doesn’t get vaccinated, they increase the risk of show cancellations due to isolations and increase risk of it being spread to cast members who maybe can’t be vaccinated yet (like children.) I’m not here to question her political beliefs, that’s a different story, but being anti-vac and basically stating that you would rather have shows close due to quarantines and have to keep up social distancing is stupid.

[inthenose]

Aug 17, 2021 9:27:58 GMT forevercolours said:

Aug 17, 2021 8:48:04 GMT danb said:

It does seem like a massive double standard from the all loving, inclusive theatre community. Accepting all doesn’t seem to extend to an anti-vax right wing zealot. The anti-vax bit seems to have given people the ‘permission’ they are seeking to attack. Medically it is selfish and troubling but morally she is allowed a stance.

Not sure if this argument really works. Accepting all also didn’t expand to Seyi Omooba after she was dropped from The Color Purple due to her homophobic beliefs. Is she allowed to have those opinions? Yes of course. Is it right for her to play a queer character and have these beliefs when working in an industry that typically celebrates LGBTQ+ individuals when she doesn’t recognise their choices and doesn’t think homosexuality is ‘right.’ The theatre community has the right to call out performers whose choices clearly jeopardise the industry. If she, or anyone else, doesn’t get vaccinated, they increase the risk of show cancellations due to isolations and increase risk of it being spread to cast members who maybe can’t be vaccinated yet (like children.) I’m not here to question her political beliefs, that’s a different story, but being anti-vac and basically stating that you would rather have shows close due to quarantines and have to keep up social distancing is stupid.

People are doing exactly that though. There were several comments about her being a Republican voter before any of this happened.

This is all a storm in a teacup. Either they'll recast or cancel the show if they feel she's crucial.

Let's all put politics aside, eh? She is entitled to her beliefs. Everyone is.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2021 9:33:02 GMT inthenose said:

Let's all put politics aside, eh? She is entitled to her beliefs. Everyone is.

This is not about her beliefs though, it's about her actions. And those actions affect other people: their health, their family's health, their jobs and their livelihood.

[inthenose]

Aug 17, 2021 9:38:58 GMT @furet said:

Aug 17, 2021 9:33:02 GMT inthenose said:

Let's all put politics aside, eh? She is entitled to her beliefs. Everyone is.

This is not about her beliefs though, it's about her actions. And those actions affect other people - their health, their family's health, their jobs and their livelihood.

If the producers don't agree with her stance, it's up to them to decide how to proceed. I don't see what the problem is here.

[danb]

Aug 17, 2021 9:38:58 GMT @furet said:

Aug 17, 2021 9:33:02 GMT inthenose said:

Let's all put politics aside, eh? She is entitled to her beliefs. Everyone is.

This is not about her beliefs though, it's about her actions. And those actions affect other people: their health, their family's health, their jobs and their livelihood.

Her actions are linked to her beliefs in this case. I totally accept that the actions are a problem. Witch hunts are becoming more and more common in this community and I just find it troubling.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2021 8:48:04 GMT danb said:

It does seem like a massive double standard from the all loving, inclusive theatre community. Accepting all doesn’t seem to extend to an anti-vax right wing zealot. The anti-vax bit seems to have given people the ‘permission’ they are seeking to attack. Medically it is selfish and troubling but morally she is allowed a stance.

Her stance is selfish on a moral level as well though. She is willingly putting others at risk as well as disrespecting the people she works with by not giving them warning. She has no moral high ground here and I'm astonished anyone is defending her.

Inclusivity is not infinite, people are entitled to hold others to standards and they should. No double standards here, just some people who care about others and one who has failed to educate herself. That is her choice but she must also then face the repercussions.

[christya]

Honestly at this point I'd rather it goes ahead without her or not at all. I never signed up to be 'accepting of all', and I certainly don't think it's necessary to 'accept' someone with her views. That said, it's how her potential employers and colleagues feel about it that will matter at the end of the day. It may well turn out that talented though she is, she's not some kind of unique magical unicorn that they can't do without, when equally talented women who are also vaccinated would be glad of the opportunities.

[sfsusan]

Aug 17, 2021 7:12:45 GMT notmymuse said:

it's a difficult situation as in the UK people can choose to get the vaccine or not

This is also true in the US. Employers have been insisting that employees be vaccinated, including the US government as an employer.  But as far as I know, no government has said all citizens/residents must be vaccinated "or else".

I think those who were saying "she's a Republican" weren't suggesting she's not allowed to be a conservative, but were suggesting that her anti-vax beliefs aren't a surprise given her apparent political leaning.

I actually wish vaccination wasn't being considered the end-all-be-all to prevent transmission, since as mentioned earlier, those who are vaccinated can still pass along the virus (presumably less often, but still). I think countries should be urging vaccinations, but enforcing testing and masks to participate in activities. Especially in the UK, where folks have access to free at-home test kits.

[karloscar]

For a two night concert gig, the cost of 10 days in quarantine before rehearsals even start might put the producers off if you look at it from an economic point of view. I doubt she'll fancy covering all those costs herself.

[HereForTheatre]

I'm quite happy to put things like this aside, it's her personal choice. I don't agree with her choice but I'm not going to let that stop me going to see something I want to see at the theatre. It's also pretty different to not have the vaccine for medical reasons, however ridiculous they may seem, than because you don't believe in Covid in the first place or think the vaccine is some kind of chip or tracking device. The latter and I might draw the line.

Also, how many people have served you a coffee or food or at the supermarket who haven't had a vaccine? Very many I imagine. Are you going to boycott those businesses or call for them to be closed because some of the staff haven't had a vaccine? Come on now. How far does this then go? Are we going to then be having a go at Jeremy and all the cast that agreed to work with her? All her friends? Boycott the show just for hiring her?  I mean it just gets absurd.

[danb]

Aug 17, 2021 16:55:45 GMT HereForTheatre said:

I'm quite happy to put things like this aside, it's her personal choice. I don't agree with her choice but I'm not going to let that stop me going to see something I want to see at the theatre. It's also pretty different to not have the vaccine for medical reasons, however ridiculous they may seem, than because you don't believe in Covid in the first place or think the vaccine is some kind of chip or tracking device. The latter and I might draw the line.

Also, how many people have served you a coffee or food or at the supermarket who haven't had a vaccine? Very many I imagine. Are you going to boycott those businesses or call for them to be closed because some of the staff haven't had a vaccine? Come on now. How far does this then go? Are we going to then be having a go at Jeremy and all the cast that agreed to work with her? All her friends? Boycott the show just for hiring her?  I mean it just gets absurd.

I personally am boycotting everyone called Laura. 😬

[forevercolours]

Aug 17, 2021 16:55:45 GMT HereForTheatre said:

I'm quite happy to put things like this aside, it's her personal choice. I don't agree with her choice but I'm not going to let that stop me going to see something I want to see at the theatre. It's also pretty different to not have the vaccine for medical reasons, however ridiculous they may seem, than because you don't believe in Covid in the first place or think the vaccine is some kind of chip or tracking device. The latter and I might draw the line.

Also, how many people have served you a coffee or food or at the supermarket who haven't had a vaccine? Very many I imagine. Are you going to boycott those businesses or call for them to be closed because some of the staff haven't had a vaccine? Come on now. How far does this then go? Are we going to then be having a go at Jeremy and all the cast that agreed to work with her? All her friends? Boycott the show just for hiring her?  I mean it just gets absurd.

I mean the thing is, the people serving me coffee or at the supermarket don’t have massive platforms that they are now using to spread dangerous conspiracy theories about a topic as scary and fragile to many women as fertility… People looked up to her, young and impressionable girls looked up to her and spewing inaccurate information that the vaccine affects fertility is dangerous and irresponsible.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2021 17:48:57 GMT forevercolours said:

Aug 17, 2021 16:55:45 GMT HereForTheatre said:

I'm quite happy to put things like this aside, it's her personal choice. I don't agree with her choice but I'm not going to let that stop me going to see something I want to see at the theatre. It's also pretty different to not have the vaccine for medical reasons, however ridiculous they may seem, than because you don't believe in Covid in the first place or think the vaccine is some kind of chip or tracking device. The latter and I might draw the line.

Also, how many people have served you a coffee or food or at the supermarket who haven't had a vaccine? Very many I imagine. Are you going to boycott those businesses or call for them to be closed because some of the staff haven't had a vaccine? Come on now. How far does this then go? Are we going to then be having a go at Jeremy and all the cast that agreed to work with her? All her friends? Boycott the show just for hiring her?  I mean it just gets absurd.

I mean the thing is, the people serving me coffee or at the supermarket don’t have massive platforms that they are now using to spread dangerous conspiracy theories about a topic as scary and fragile to many women as fertility… People looked up to her, young and impressionable girls looked up to her and spewing inaccurate information that the vaccine affects fertility is dangerous and irresponsible.

Exactly. She has made herself even more part of the problem than she was and is showing herself to be dangerously ignorant (and her doctor to be negligent, but that's another matter entirely). Any shred of sympathy anyone had for her should be gone if you care an ounce about ensuring other people are not misinformed.

Also retail and waiting staff are generally behind perspex screens or serving me for all of a minute, often masked, not singing in my face for weeks without a mask.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2021 8:30:12 GMT @kevinuk said:

Honestly, I don’t see how it’s anyone else’s business. If it wasn’t for this thread reporting Twitter nonsense, I wouldn’t have even known about any of this unnecessary drama.

This is a public health crisis that has taken over 4 million lives globally. It's EVERYONE'S business. And it isn't "unnecessary drama" for folks to want to feel safe in their workplace. 

[dlevi]

If I were the producers of the Bonnie & Clyde concert I'd simply get someone else. Laura Osnes is a truly talented performer with a lovely voice, but she's not irreplacable. Frankly in my mind she and Sierra Bogess ( another talented performer) are pretty interchangable. And at this point, its safer to have a performer who has been vaxxed than one who hasn't.

[karloscar]

Interesting that Broadway stars like Judy Kuhn and Patti Murin have been posting that people with a large following should not spread misinformation about the vaccine's effect on fertility. This is not going to just disappear.

[Deleted]

Aug 18, 2021 12:45:33 GMT karloscar said:

Interesting that Broadway stars like Judy Kuhn and Patti Murin have been posting that people with a large following should not spread misinformation about the vaccine's effect on fertility. This is not going to just disappear.

They are just being socially responsible, something Osnes has entirely failed to be throughout this! It shouldn't disappear.

[inthenose]

It's all smelling at bit cancel-y.

[42ndBlvd]

Aug 18, 2021 15:29:37 GMT inthenose said:

It's all smelling at bit cancel-y.

Well I don't think this is something she can just ignore or think that it won't affect her career. This anti-vax mess of hers has also shone a light on her past behaviour and "christian conservative" stance, all of which isn't gonna abode well with most Broadway fans. 

[inthenose]

But this is my problem. Before any of this antivax stuff came out, people were put off by her being a "Christian conservative" in the first place. Not everybody who buys tickets gives a stuff about people's political beliefs. What we have here is a tiny but extremely vocal minority of people. They are complaining on social media that a star they liked turned out to not share their political/religious/social beliefs. They've had their feelings hurt that "one of their own" doesn't share their opinions.

The same thing happened with Ellen DeGeneres when she was "outed" as being friends with President Bush. Full cancellation attempt from the Twitter mafia.

Social justice warriors are very dangerous people to be and to know, because if you have just one belief that goes against the herd mentality, you are the new target. They turn on each other in a flash.

[danb]

Yep…look at me, I’m all about inclusion and everyone being equal until I disagree with a controversial opinion they publicly hold. Then I’m quite happy to leap on them and attack. Luckily I have the get out of their opinion being something ‘dangerous’ that isn’t just an opinion but could cause people harm.

What like the IRA, Black Panthers or ANC?

No just a renowned right wing anti-vaxxer.

What is she doing wrong?

Nothing…she’s been let go from the gig so it’s a moot point but she should be publicly flogged for speaking.

Fair enough, can we burn her at the stake?

[inthenose]

Then of course there is the question as to whether her beliefs are demonstrably wrong in the first place. She believes them to be true, and she is basing her belief on that of a trusted healthcare provider. In her mind, she has taken medical advice she believes is best for her. We may feel it's misguided, but it's her body and choice.

Personally, for transparency, I've double vaccinated and trust in the government/big pharma that the vaccination works as prescribed. IF any of the anti-vax claims are proven true, it will be 20-30 years from now, as is always the case with medical studies. Not that I believe they will.
Previously of course, governments have outright lied about dangerous side-effects and there have been dozens of documented conspiracies and cover-ups from big pharma and governments.

Just a few examples;

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study - a 40 year study of black men with syphilis. They were told they were being treated with penicillin, when in fact they were given a placebo and doctors studied their deterioration and death from the disease.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation

A whole page full of them here.

Also worth watching the movie "Dark Waters" and reading about the real life controversy it is based on. You'll be throwing away the Teflon pans quicker than lightning ⚡

[danb]

Please don’t mistake me for any sort of activist. I’m just no fan of double standards and hypocrisy.