Next to Normal - Donmar / Wyndham’s

[Someone in a tree]

Easy pleasy. I hope everyone has the same pain free booking

[inthenose]

Opening night and closing night now booked…! Now to forget about this show until cast is announced…

[FrontroverPaul]

Same here. Went for the stalls second row at a preview as I found the front a bit tight for legroom when I saw The Band's Visit.

[stevej678]

Well, that was surprisingly straightforward! Front row of the centre block booked for my first choice day and time. Very happy with that!

[thebaker]

I was 240th in the queue (apparently) but managed to book fairly painlessly for my preferred dates in the stalls.

[tal]

 I was expecting stress, so I feel very relieved that I managed to book the tickets I wanted.

[cezbear]

Thank goodness for this thread, forgot all about it until I saw these posts, just managed to book stalls row C for a preview date that I think/hope will work for me! No queuing at all.

[anthony40]

Ant's in baby! He's in!

I too forgot and I have had intermittent internet problems all day but I received a reminder email from The Donmar at 12:05, logged in straight away and bagged me a ticket!

Get in!!!!

[sam22]

That was so easy! I forgot about it entirely then an email popped up from Donmar so clicked on it, no queue, and two good tickets on a Sat evening in August. Plenty left too!

[mrbarnaby]

Well that was remarkably stress free!

[Mark]

All booked! First preview and then my Birthday in October

[Being Alive]

Surprisingly easy - good for the Donmar having a bit of a queue in place - and got first and last, and a couple in between. Those £10 tickets are a steal!

[cezbear]

Shout out to the Donmar for being so helpful on the phones when I realised I had got over excited and booked a date I couldn't make - swapped to virtually same seat for first preview instead (please, please don't let first preview be cancelled on me now or I won't be going at all...)
Super simple process to swap tickets!

[Deleted]

Well that was totally pain free! Wish all bookings were that quick and simple

[inthenose]

Sod it, booked a £23 one for the last midweek matinee… that’s three booked now !

[cezbear]

Oct 17, 2022 12:14:27 GMT inthenose said:

Sod it, booked a £23 one for the last midweek matinee… that’s three booked now !

Everyone's gone a bit giddy! I'd book another myself if I hadn't spent so very much on various tickets this month already.

[inthenose]

Oct 17, 2022 12:17:34 GMT cezbear said:

Oct 17, 2022 12:14:27 GMT inthenose said:

Sod it, booked a £23 one for the last midweek matinee… that’s three booked now !

Everyone's gone a bit giddy! I'd book another myself if I hadn't spent so very much on various tickets this month already.

In my case after a rotten couple of years, it’s just nice to be able to look forward to seeing a happy, upbeat musica… oh!

[andrew]

I loved the soundtrack to this when it came out, randomly a few months ago on my commute I listened through the cast album again.

I thought the score still stood out as powerful, the lyrics at times work and at times clunk but I think they always get away with it, the story feels like it hammers along quickly and doesn't let you go. Another poster talked about not seeing the wood for the trees in terms of the shows problems, but my overall conclusion was the opposite, I think the core message is rotten.

Don't read further if you haven't seen the show. I'm not sure how comfortable we can be with a show that ultimately concludes that psychiatry, medications, and evidence based treatment were getting in the way of Diana getting better. It says that actually throwing all of that away and leaving her husband were the cure all along. That's really quite bad. She has persistent psychotic features of bipolar affective disorder, saying that she just needed to find inner strength to cure herself (which was certainly my interpretation watching the bootleg years ago) is a stupid and frankly toxic message that I don't think should be glamourised in a musical. I know it's not a piece of advocacy or advice, I'm not arguing that plays should always have good or accurate messages, but if we're going to keep celebrating it as the musical that deals head on with mental health I sort of feel it shouldn't veer off into touchy feely nonsense. People in Diana's condition who walk away from medical treatment would have an extremely high risk of dying by suicide, there shouldn't be a feel good song about how There Will Be Light now that she's walking out.

I still bought tickets, obviously.

[apubleed]

Sorry but I think you have misinterpreted the message of the show. In 'Light', it clearly advocates seeking professional help as evidenced by the fact that the doctor suggests he is still in contact with her, makes clear she is considering the risks of her decisions AND because he recommends that Dan see a professional - to which he says yes. Yes, there is complexity and criticism about what exactly works for her at the right time and whether medical or psychological intervention is ALWAYS correct in all decisions and at all stages, as well as considering what the unintended consequences and side effects of some of these treatments are - but this criticism is not completely unfounded and many of the criticisms of medical or psychological intervention (ESPECIALLY medical treatments) could have been lifted from a textbook from that era (I know because I was studying it at the time both at an undergrad and then postgrad level). This criticism and exploration is needed to actually give the show something interesting to say.

"Light" more generally serves the purpose of trying to help people (the audience) empathise and cope with mental difficulties. It is nothing about suggesting by rejecting medical or psychological treatments or 'walking out' people will find 'Light'. It's just not the purpose (and as mentioned above, the show makes it clear it's the exact opposite).

[andrew]

Oct 17, 2022 13:43:14 GMT apubleed said:

Sorry but I think you have misinterpreted the message of the show. In 'Light', it clearly advocates seeking professional help as evidenced by the fact that the doctor suggests he is still in contact with her, makes clear she is considering the risks of her decisions AND because he recommends that Dan see a professional - to which he says yes. Yes, there is complexity and criticism about what exactly works for her at the right time and whether medical or psychological intervention is ALWAYS correct in all decisions and at all stages, as well as considering what the unintended consequences and side effects of some of these treatments are - but this criticism is not completely unfounded and many of the criticisms of medical or psychological intervention (ESPECIALLY medical treatments) could have been lifted from a textbook from that era (I know because I was studying it at the time both at an undergrad and then postgrad level). This criticism and exploration is needed to actually give the show something interesting to say.

"Light" more generally serves the purpose of trying to help people (the audience) empathise and cope with mental difficulties. It is nothing about suggesting by rejecting medical or psychological treatments or 'walking out' people will find 'Light'. It's just not the purpose (and as mentioned above, the show makes it clear it's the exact opposite).

Spoilers remain here. I think you're drawing a lot of conclusions I wouldn't draw from the material, but I understand what you're saying and I appreciate your point of view. I don't see the evidence to be honest that the show advocates seeking professional help, there is a half-hearted question in the dialogue at the end (I'm re-reading it now to be sure) that she may or may not be in contact with her doctor, but even if she was you've still got a scenario where she tried the drugs and they didn't work, she tried ECT and got an unbelievably rare side effect, then it didn't work, and at the end let me quote

DOCTOR MADDEN: Diana you have a chronic illness [...] if you leave it untreated, it could be catastrophic
DIANA: I understand. But there has to be another way. 

And then she walks out. There's a relatively feel good song at the end and no consequences are known to befall her, and I interpret (and obviously it's just my interpretation) that this is a hopeful situation for her.

Psychiatry definitely treads in the most murky water of all medical specialties, but neither in 2008 nor 2022 is it fair to suggest that someone with psychosis would be better off without pharmacological therapy, nor that a textbook would advocate that. She doesn't have mild anxiety or a personality disorder, she is seriously mentally unwell and for my money the show does not clearly lay out the issues in the way you describe. And if the situation was different in 2008 (and fair enough that was several years before I worked as a doctor on an inpatient psychiatry unit if that brings context to my opinion) I don't imagine it's being produced as a period piece, it will sell itself as being generally in our current era. I'm not comfortable with the way that care is presented, I don't think the average audience member comes away thinking anything good about therapies for mental illness. If my take is niche and alternative that's fine, but I definitely don't see Next To Normal as having the pro-healthcare message at it's conclusion that you see.

[intoanewlife]

Before I join the stampede with the masses to try and get tickets for this, is this any more palatable than Falsettos and Caroline or Change...asking for a friend x

[inthenose]

Interesting from both sides, and some excellent points being made.

It is my feeling that the show, as with most theatre, addresses certain issues with very broad strokes. Dr. Fine’s “patient stable” is, essentially, the limit of what medicine can do, but can seem like a flippant one-liner in the show, cynicism bordering on sinister. Dr. Madden says “Is medicine magic, you know that it’s not. I know it’s not perfect but it’s what we’ve got”. Again, it’s true, and we can’t spend 40 minutes in a musical discussing the point.

I think the text goes to great lengths to painstakingly try and demonstrate that there isn’t one “fix”, there are just options to be tried which often intersect when treating such a serious mental illness.

Anecdotally, my grandmother underwent ECT in the 80’s and actually did suffer quite noticeable memory loss, which came back in the following months.

[singularsensation10]

Oct 17, 2022 14:11:54 GMT intoanewlife said:

Before I join the stampede with the masses to try and get tickets for this, is this any more palatable than Falsettos and Caroline or Change...asking for a friend x

Palatable in what way? I don’t know anyone who has seen this show (including myself) and isn’t so immeasurably moved emotionally. I sobbed like a baby, I was 13 and it was transformative for me in realising how musical theatre can tell a story so beautifully and incredibly. Palatable in terms of an enjoyable fun night out? Possibly not. Palatable in terms of accessible story telling? Yes I’d say so. Palatable in terms of subject and story? Also possibly not for everyone.

[apubleed]

Oct 17, 2022 14:10:01 GMT andrew said:

Oct 17, 2022 13:43:14 GMT apubleed said:

Sorry but I think you have misinterpreted the message of the show. In 'Light', it clearly advocates seeking professional help as evidenced by the fact that the doctor suggests he is still in contact with her, makes clear she is considering the risks of her decisions AND because he recommends that Dan see a professional - to which he says yes. Yes, there is complexity and criticism about what exactly works for her at the right time and whether medical or psychological intervention is ALWAYS correct in all decisions and at all stages, as well as considering what the unintended consequences and side effects of some of these treatments are - but this criticism is not completely unfounded and many of the criticisms of medical or psychological intervention (ESPECIALLY medical treatments) could have been lifted from a textbook from that era (I know because I was studying it at the time both at an undergrad and then postgrad level). This criticism and exploration is needed to actually give the show something interesting to say.

"Light" more generally serves the purpose of trying to help people (the audience) empathise and cope with mental difficulties. It is nothing about suggesting by rejecting medical or psychological treatments or 'walking out' people will find 'Light'. It's just not the purpose (and as mentioned above, the show makes it clear it's the exact opposite).

Spoilers remain here. I think you're drawing a lot of conclusions I wouldn't draw from the material, but I understand what you're saying and I appreciate your point of view. I don't see the evidence to be honest that the show advocates seeking professional help, there is a half-hearted question in the dialogue at the end (I'm re-reading it now to be sure) that she may or may not be in contact with her doctor, but even if she was you've still got a scenario where she tried the drugs and they didn't work, she tried ECT and got an unbelievably rare side effect, then it didn't work, and at the end let me quote

DOCTOR MADDEN: Diana you have a chronic illness [...] if you leave it untreated, it could be catastrophic
DIANA: I understand. But there has to be another way. 

And then she walks out. There's a relatively feel good song at the end and no consequences are known to befall her, and I interpret (and obviously it's just my interpretation) that this is a hopeful situation for her.

Psychiatry definitely treads in the most murky water of all medical specialties, but neither in 2008 nor 2022 is it fair to suggest that someone with psychosis would be better off without pharmacological therapy, nor that a textbook would advocate that. She doesn't have mild anxiety or a personality disorder, she is seriously mentally unwell and for my money the show does not clearly lay out the issues in the way you describe. And if the situation was different in 2008 (and fair enough that was several years before I worked as a doctor on an inpatient psychiatry unit if that brings context to my opinion) I don't imagine it's being produced as a period piece, it will sell itself as being generally in our current era. I'm not comfortable with the way that care is presented, I don't think the average audience member comes away thinking anything good about therapies for mental illness. If my take is niche and alternative that's fine, but I definitely don't see Next To Normal as having the pro-healthcare message at it's conclusion that you see.

I think if you are concerned that the show won't lead people to (especially if they need to) immediately seek medical treatment and stick with it, I can see why. And maybe the show could make that clearer (I thought it did for the reasons I suggested but it's true that these are small moments after 2.5 hours of back and forth pros/cons about the treatment happening so maybe it should come out stronger).

My personal 'niche' is that I have worked with GPs and Psychiatrists* who are shocking and woefully unprepared to diagnose and treat mental illness, especially holistically beyond medication (e.g. if someone is suicidal and also experiencing problems in life with friendships, work, relationships, family, how they spend their time etc. they need more than just medication and these doctors need to help them find the wider support they need beyond just dispensing medication). So I personally appreciate a critical take on mental health treatment because what is going on beyond the scenes is much more difficult/complicated/problematic than I think the general public are aware of.

(* Not in the UK, I don't know the system here and I've changed careers since)

[annette]

Oct 17, 2022 14:11:54 GMT intoanewlife said:

Before I join the stampede with the masses to try and get tickets for this, is this any more palatable than Falsettos and Caroline or Change...asking for a friend x

I agree with singularsensation10. N2N is a pretty dark and in parts harrowing show. I saw it with Marin Mazzie and her husband playing the leads on Broadway and had to sit quietly for a while after it finished to process what I'd just seen. It's extremely moving, especially for anyone who may have any experiences in common with the narrative.

It's also a mostly sung-through rock score, so not one for lovers of traditional MT. It depends really on what sort of MT your friend enjoys, but I'd say there's probably more light and shade in the other two musicals you've mentioned than in this one.

Maybe you should play some or all of the score to your friend before booking? To my mind it's not a show where anyone will come out humming the tunes or feeling giddy with MT joy at it's best. I loved it, spent a long time thinking about if afterwards and still listen to the score from time to time (it still makes me well up after all these years).

As a side note I think casting could really make or break a show like this. It's both a very demanding score and script. I think whoever is casting the production is going to have their work cut out for them. Please God let it not be not the ubiquitous Jenna Russell in the lead (I'll be offering a pair of freebie tickets on here if that turns out to be the case).