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Post by showgirl on Oct 27, 2022 3:16:05 GMT
Well this is one case when critics' reviews can't possibly affect sales and from posts here, ordinary, paying members of the public generally love it and there'll be great word of mouth as a result. I've only read a single review (Theatrecat's, as I subscribe to their emails); don't in the least care what the professionals say about this and am still hugely looking forward to my visit - and hoping it won't be scuppered by yet another train strike.
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Post by kathryn on Oct 27, 2022 5:16:47 GMT
Oh well. Maybe this is one of those cases when having a strong pre-conception about what a show should be (some reviewers clearly cannot get on board with it being a musical comedy) stops people appreciating what it is. Clearly some critics loved the Chastain film, and wanted that approach. The complaints by some that it doesn’t show her addiction to pills is just weird. Yes, it does. She gets as a high as a kite over the course of one song. What the show doesn’t do is condemn her for it. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Oct 27, 2022 6:42:52 GMT
Oh wow. These reviews are a bit of a shock after the raves on here.
They won’t be happy with these at all. It may harm the transfer potential I think.
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Post by alece10 on Oct 27, 2022 7:14:57 GMT
I've not read any of the reviews yet but I had a feeling that they would not be positive. I find more and more that critics have a totally opposite view of shows than I do and just don't get it.
Surely all of us who have said positive things about it can't be wrong and they are right. Also I think board members are honest in their opinions and if it was bad they would certainly say so.
Hopefully if this transfers people will believe the social media good vibes and not a bunch of old critics.
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Post by shownut on Oct 27, 2022 7:30:47 GMT
I've not read any of the reviews yet but I had a feeling that they would not be positive. I find more and more that critics have a totally opposite view of shows than I do and just don't get it. Surely all of us who have said positive things about it can't be wrong and they are right. Also I think board members are honest in their opinions and if it was bad they would certainly say so. Hopefully if this transfers people will believe the social media good vibes and not a bunch of old critics. I remind myself that when Les Miz opened at The Barbican in 1985, it received some pretty damning reviews that wrote it off as too long, too pretentious and very dull. Despite those reviews, it had great word-of-mouth, an appeal to the theatre-going public and a producer willing to take chances. We know that Tammy has the appeal and favourable word-of-mouth. Lets hope that Elton/David as lead producers, have the balls to take a chance and give it life beyond the Almeida. I write this, having not yet seen it. But I have never heard such unanimous on-line praise for a new musical since Hamilton started previews at The Public. |
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Oct 27, 2022 7:36:23 GMT
I’ve said this like five times: the transfer is set in stone, or as good as exists in theatre. It was created FOR the West End and was originally going to open straight into the West End until RG came on board and requested an Almeida run to be added first.
It’s not a question of “will it transfer” but “will the existing confirmed transfer be cancelled” and I honestly don’t see that happening unless it’s a total flop, which it clearly isn’t in terms of sales and audience response. I guess it’s possible the reviews will affect this but I honestly can’t see a couple of bad reviews causing people to cancel tickets en masse. Not when public word of mouth has been so good.
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Post by kathryn on Oct 27, 2022 7:42:22 GMT
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Post by kathryn on Oct 27, 2022 7:44:29 GMT
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Post by Steve on Oct 27, 2022 7:45:00 GMT
The only review I've had a chance to read so far is the New York Post one, and the critical passage in that review is:-
"the shallow “Tammy Faye” never comes to understand its endlessly fascinating main character. Nor does it make much of an attempt. It is an unsatisfying surface-level examination of an icon."
If the expectation is that the musical give us a warts-and-all understanding of Tammy Faye Bakker, just like inthenose (who has read an autobiography as well as biographies) would have liked, then it does fail, because the musical doesn't even attempt to do that.
If I wanted that, though, I'd probably watch a documentary, or, maybe even read those biographies lol.
The musical is a fun, unnuanced, but heartfelt attack on the judgementalism, hypocrisy and scheming for power and control of Jerry Falwell's Christian right over everybody else's lives. Tammy Faye's good qualities are highlighted to point up Falwell's flaws.
I enjoyed that conception, as I don't expect musicals to be history books, so like Kathryn said, a lot of your enjoyment of this piece is based on your expectations going in.
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Post by kathryn on Oct 27, 2022 7:58:52 GMT
To some extent it’s not even about Tammy Faye as a person, it’s about her appeal to her audience. It’s answering the question that flummoxed the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells - why did people prefer to listen to her than us?
And it shows, not tells, the answer. Because she is charismatic and empathetic and sincere, because she is fun and funny and camp, because she talks about love and compassion instead of judgement.
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Post by Joseph Buquet on Oct 27, 2022 8:10:15 GMT
I’m really not a patriotic person, but I found the digs at the British in the New York Post review to be really patronising. And the last line of the review would’ve been cringeworthy in a GCSE ‘write a theatre review’ assignment, let alone in a professional review - embarrassing!
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Post by showgirl on Oct 27, 2022 8:48:35 GMT
I've not read any of the reviews yet but I had a feeling that they would not be positive. I find more and more that critics have a totally opposite view of shows than I do and just don't get it. Surely all of us who have said positive things about it can't be wrong and they are right. Also I think board members are honest in their opinions and if it was bad they would certainly say so. Hopefully if this transfers people will believe the social media good vibes and not a bunch of old critics. Indded, alece10 and the views on this production are almost the opposite from those on Marvellous, on which I commented, ie in one case "we" love it, critics don't and in the other, the reverse. And I know which group I'd trust! |
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Post by ShoreditchTom on Oct 27, 2022 8:53:12 GMT
I really wanted to love this. I love Elton. I love Jake Shears. I love Andrew Rannells. I love the Almeida. I like James Graham.
So I was really excited about this, and between my own bookings and friend invites I'm due to see this 4 times across the run.
Went last Sat and from the reviews on here I was expecting the next Book of Mormon or Hamilton.
I have to say I was quite disappointed.
The cast are great and work really hard, the songs are OK (but nowhere near BoM / Hamilton good), it's funny in parts but not super funny nor particularly clever, the set and staging are OK (not especially innovative in my opinion and it is a bit of a 1 trick pony that gets tiresome) but the real issue I think is that there is just no story arc and I personally found most of the spoken bits pretty pedestrian verging on poor with no forward momentum, excitement, sadness, pathos aka character development. We didn't get any real character development of Tammy herself let alone the other characters. What were their motivations, their feelings, their fears, flaws, hope and dreams etc? The opening scene is also misjudged and just a bit distasteful / trying too hard in my opinion.
Also the story/dialogue and songs seemed a bit too detached from each other for me, they should work together to advance the narrative and don't. Just a hunch but I wonder if this is due to the various collaborators all working on bits separately? With BoM and Hamilton every aspect comes together magnificently, this sadly isn't the case with this (in my opinion of course, appreciate it's been a huge hit with other theatreboard members!)
I'm seeing it again this Sat so I'll see if I like it better this time round but currently it is a solid 3 star for me - it was enjoyable, it's certainly not awful but to my mind it's not knocking anything out of the park and with all the talent involved I think it could have been so much better.
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Post by kathryn on Oct 27, 2022 8:54:12 GMT
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Post by kathryn on Oct 27, 2022 9:04:45 GMT
the real issue I think is that there is just no story arc and I personally found most of the spoken bits pretty pedestrian verging on poor with no forward momentum, excitement, sadness, pathos aka character development. We didn't get any real character development of Tammy herself let alone the other characters. What were their motivations, their feelings, their fears, flaws, hope and dreams etc? The opening scene is also misjudged and just a bit distasteful / trying too hard in my opinion. Also the story/dialogue and songs seemed a bit too detached from each other for me, they should work together to advance the narrative and don't. Just a hunch but I wonder if this is due to the various collaborators all working on bits separately? You didn’t feel any pathos when Tammy found out about her husband and Hahn, or when she was hugging Steve Pieters?
You didn’t notice Falwell’s fears, flaws, hopes and dreams being expressed in Satellite of God?
You didn’t think that God’s House/Heritage USA moved the plot forward? Really?! |
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Post by ShoreditchTom on Oct 27, 2022 9:13:48 GMT
the real issue I think is that there is just no story arc and I personally found most of the spoken bits pretty pedestrian verging on poor with no forward momentum, excitement, sadness, pathos aka character development. We didn't get any real character development of Tammy herself let alone the other characters. What were their motivations, their feelings, their fears, flaws, hope and dreams etc? The opening scene is also misjudged and just a bit distasteful / trying too hard in my opinion. Also the story/dialogue and songs seemed a bit too detached from each other for me, they should work together to advance the narrative and don't. Just a hunch but I wonder if this is due to the various collaborators all working on bits separately? {Spoiler}You didn’t feel any pathos when Tammy found out about her husband and Hahn, or when she was hugging Steve Pieters?
You didn’t notice Falwell’s fears, flaws, hopes and dreams being expressed in Satellite of God?
You didn’t think that God’s House/Heritage USA moved the plot forward? Really?! Yeah, sadly to me it all felt very clunky/pedestrian despite the opportunity to create some emotion with these plot points - that is my criticism basically. It's like they have all the ingredients, have some great chefs but the meal just wasn't that good! But appreciate I'm in the minority here! |
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Post by danb on Oct 27, 2022 9:15:07 GMT
The NY post review? Its like a pathetic blog post by a bitter betty you-tuber about someone stealing one of their cheerleader moves; no mention of Shears being American, just slagging off the Brits involved and trying to ‘gatekeep’ Tammy somehow.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Oct 27, 2022 9:20:06 GMT
Comments I’ve seen elsewhere online seem to imply the NY Post reviewer is not noted for his warmth and open mind towards new shows.
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Post by shownut on Oct 27, 2022 9:55:08 GMT
Is it just me, or is it interesting to note that the more conservative-minded papers such as Telegraph, Times and the right-wing tabloid known as the NY Post gave the show a thumbs down while the more liberal publications (Time Out, Guardian, Independent) are very favourable?
Discuss.
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Post by c4ndyc4ne on Oct 27, 2022 10:01:26 GMT
Fours now from the standard, independent, guardian, time out, WOS - I think it's a sturdy hit with a few shortcomings! the angry press just clearly had the energy to vent last night.
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Post by lonlad on Oct 27, 2022 10:40:51 GMT
Yes, I noticed that, too: a political divide where one wouldn't necessarily have expected it. God only know what Quentin Letts will say !
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Post by kathryn on Oct 27, 2022 10:42:51 GMT
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Post by Mark on Oct 27, 2022 10:48:40 GMT
Could this be the current frontrunner for Best New Musical at the Olivier Awards (No doubt Bonnie & Clyde will win the WOS Awards)
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Post by shownut on Oct 27, 2022 10:57:16 GMT
I guess they’ll have to do more legwork to win over the Americans for Broadway. There is still NYTimes and Variety to come and other trades such Chicago Tribune, LATimes, Washington Post, Hollywood Post and possibly Hollywood Reporter chiming in. I wouldn't read into the NYPost too much. It is a right-leaning tabloid rag (NYC's version of Daily Mail) so feel free to take their poorly written, mean-spirited review and do something more useful with it, (like line the bottom of your birdcage or use it to wrap fish and chips). NY producers/investors will be more interested in what bonefide critics from US legitimate trades (those without an obvious agenda) think about the show. NYTimes has already run a feature (last week) and I have no doubt that solid word of mouth, a musical about a larger-than-life celebrity known to any American alive in the 1980's and handful of positive reviews will have the Jujamcyns, Shuberts and Nederlanders hoping this show lands in one of their theatres for the 2023/24 Broadway season. But lets see what Variety and NYTimes say....it will likely matter. |
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Oct 27, 2022 10:58:40 GMT
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