The Pillowman - Duke of York's

[Rory]

Imagine what Ruth Wilson or Denise Gough could have done with it.

[londonpostie]

I can't help but notice the elephant in all of this.

Fwiw,I can imagine an argument that says 'well, I grew up in a theatrical house and I've spent the last few years quietly learning the craft privately, so I think I deserve a chance, or two'.

To which one response might be 'If you've been learning your craft for the last 4 years or so that puts you on an equal footing with young women in their early 20s not that long of LAMDA, RADA, Central, et al. And you're 38. It doesn't put you in the same frame as women of your own age who turned pro nearly 20-odd years ago'.

I appreciate her father isn't the most liked but she is popular, and obv. has a following. Still, the elephant has a sign around its neck saying in big letters 'Middle-class nepotism?'.

[Deleted]

I prefer Keith to Lily personally.

[alicechallice]

Jun 23, 2023 22:40:54 GMT @original9 said:

I prefer Keith to Lily personally.

Yes, IMAGINE what Penelope Keith could have done with it.

[Being Alive]

Matthew Dunster seems to have decided Lily Allen is an actress with zero evidence, and I'd rather we stopped pretending she is.

Pillowman is a knock out play, that first time round was THRILLING. This could have also been thrilling, and I'm borderline angry they've gender flipped it AND cast someone sub-par. This should be an EVENT getting a production of this again, and as hard as I imagine Steve Pemberton is working, he can't do it all.

I echo the above - Denise Gough if we must.

[andbingowashisname]

Jun 23, 2023 21:55:07 GMT londonpostie said:

I can't help but notice the elephant in all of this.

Fwiw,I can imagine an argument that says 'well, I grew up in a theatrical house and I've spent the last few years quietly learning the craft privately, so I think I deserve a chance, or two'.

To which one response might be 'If you've been learning your craft for the last 4 years or so that puts you on an equal footing with young women in their early 20s not that long of LAMDA, RADA, Central, et al. And you're 38. It doesn't put you in the same frame as women of your own age who turned pro nearly 20-odd years ago'.

I appreciate her father isn't the most liked but she is popular, and obv. has a following. Still, the elephant has a sign around its neck saying in big letters 'Middle-class nepotism?'.

Add in the fact that her mother is one of the most prominent film and TV producers in the UK, her step-father for many years was Harry Enfield, and her brother Alfie is also a high-profile actor. I think that’s called a nepotism flush.

[NeilVHughes]

Wanted to be positive, the play itself was the highlight let down by a hole in the centre, Allen could not carry the play which her character needs to do, Pemberton, Kaye and especially Tennyson as Michal almost make up for the vacuum.

Will look out for this play again as with a strong Katurian this play would be transformed, made me think of Kinnear in the Trial at the Young Vic a few years ago and what he would have done with the part.

[lookingatthestars]

I think I'll give this a miss, based on what I have read here and the reviews. I'd like to keep my memories of past productions and wait for a production in the future with a better Katurian, who as someone here has said the play stands on and revolves around. Pity, as this is a great play which i feels depicts dark humor so well. Also I was looking forward to seeing Pemberton.

David Harbour, Allen's Husband would might have been better in the role perhaps?

[zahidf]

I enjoyed this more than I thought I would

Lily Allen was fine. The play nerds a great lead actor, which she isn't, but she didn't stink the place out or anything. Co stars are better

[rumtom]

I've just seen this and really enjoyed it. I didn't see the original - which always helps if you don't want to have the memories of a great play sullied by a new production and cast but even so I thought Lily Allen actually gave a good performance. Maybe she's bedded into the role a bit more by now but I thought she suited the character, feeble in parts, getting stronger throughout. The cast overall seemed cohesive and slick. There were lots of laughs, and I love the fact you can hear people hesitating before laughing or stopping themselves because it didn't seem appropriate, given some of the subject matter. The language used, for me, is completely essential to the play - the juxtaposition between discomfort or even horror and hilarity is a fine one but MM gets it spot on.

[ncbears]

Saw this evening of 24 June. I did not enjoy this. Tempted to leave at the interval but remained curious where the play had left to go - there was one story title that seemed important that had not yet been "performed."
But, overall, I found this just sick. And I was more sickened by the laughter in the audience - it wasn't widespread laughter but one or two people who just found somethings uproarious and had big big laughs. 
I dd not see this is a great play hidden by poor performances.
Llly Allen was fine, I guess. But, she had basically two notes - semi-hysterical/on edge in book scenes and flat unemotional n the narration scenes. I can see how a different characterization could change how the story feels - But I just doubt it would have changed my reaction much.
I can see the theme of "stories" we tell to get us past trauma - but that idea is presented early and then just repeated constantly to not great end. 
Mrs NCBears missed that this was a "totalitarian fascist state" - although Pemberton says it almost as a joke about police - as in, people always see the police n that fashion - not that these police are actually part of a totalitarian fascist state. Indeed, I did first take it as a joke. Nor is it clear that the "State" objects to KKK's stories - such that only 1 has been published. They could be viewed as cautionary tales - or could be viewed as threatening by encouraging individual action against oppression. But, they are, in the end, just "stories" and while important to KKK, there is no indication why KKK feels her stories will be a legacy hat anyone will care about. 
I was really looking forward to this play - so much that we booked from the States, got single seats in the back of the stalls (Clear view, by the way T8 and U7) - and even with the comments about Allen, I thought I'd still see what was reputed to be a great play. I didn't see it. Not recommended. Your views may (and will) differ.
Lastly, to me, and perhaps I missed the answer, but there is a huge plot question: 

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler - click to view}
Why now are the murders happening? Why not over a longer period of time? Something has to trigger the brother to want to bring the stories to life.

[ncbears]

So, have the reviews dampened ticket sales? I peeked ahead starting 15 July and while there are a lot of tickets sold, it looks like quite a few of the high priced and side seats are not sold. I don't know how many of the seats showing as sold are just rebooked from the prior attempt to stage the show.

[mrbarnaby]

Jul 6, 2023 22:16:38 GMT ncbears said:

So, have the reviews dampened ticket sales? I peeked ahead starting 15 July and while there are a lot of tickets sold, it looks like quite a few of the high priced and side seats are not sold. I don't know how many of the seats showing as sold are just rebooked from the prior attempt to stage the show.

Relax

[shakeel]

This was such a shame. I adore the play, but this production just sucked the life out of it. It’s not just Allen (though she was not very good) — the direction overall is just really poor. The comedic timing felt totally off; so many lines fell flat. And the staging was just very boring. I saw a student production of this back in 2014 and that was much, much better — which is pretty embarrassing.

[firefingers]

Yes, I thought it was the direction that let it down overall. Personally thought Allen was fine, but the big heavy set added nothing, and so much was stylistically dull. Sometimes the stories were just... read at us, but others were staged in full or partial. The animation in The Little Jesus section was great, I feel that should have been a running design idea for all the stories, even Topolski's, but it was only used on one. Given how imaginative the play itself is I felt the direction consistently lacked the imagination to match.

[Rory]

Jul 7, 2023 8:06:49 GMT firefingers said:

Yes, I thought it was the direction that let it down overall. Personally thought Allen was fine, but the big heavy set added nothing, and so much was stylistically dull. Sometimes the stories were just... read at us, but others were staged in full or partial. The animation in The Little Jesus section was great, I feel that should have been a running design idea for all the stories, even Topolski's, but it was only used on one. Given how imaginative the play itself is I felt the direction consistently lacked the imagination to match.

Disappointing to hear this. An Irish theatre company called Decadent staged a quite brilliant version of this play a couple of years ago, which I saw at the Lyric, Belfast, and it was so imaginative (link below). Am kinda sorry I've booked to see this production now. It just all sounds fair to middling when it should have been brilliant. I loved Dunster and Fleischle's production of Hangmen. (Incidentally, Decadent are doing a production of Hangmen at the Gaeity in Dublin soon).

[lookingatthestars]

Oooooh I remember this Decadent production, it was very good. They actor who played the priest in Derry Girls, Peter Campion I think, was Katurian. It was the first time i saw the play and think they got the comic timings spot on. I also remember the dramatisations of the stories being beautifully stark. It's such a twisted, darkly comic play, the directing really is so critical, makes me see how very important good directors are.

Totally off topic, but this does not warrent a threat so I do apologize.....Rory will you be able to catch Druid's mammoth staging of all the O Casey Dublin plays this summer when they play the Lyric in Blefast? Or any of the other Irish dates?

[Being Alive]

I think some people have decided Matthew Dunster is a much better director than he actually is - I really enjoyed Hangmen a few years back, but otherwise everything I've seen of his always had some problem that stopped it from being as good as it could be (although with 2:22 I'm not entirely sure how you improve on what is just not a very good play)

It's an even bigger shame here because the play is so brilliant, it's such a letdown that it hasn't been allowed to soar in the way it should

[Jon]

Jul 7, 2023 12:53:36 GMT Being Alive said:

I think some people have decided Matthew Dunster is a much better director than he actually is - I really enjoyed Hangmen a few years back, but otherwise everything I've seen of his always had some problem that stopped it from being as good as it could be (although with 2:22 I'm not entirely sure how you improve on what is just not a very good play)

It's an even bigger shame here because the play is so brilliant, it's such a letdown that it hasn't been allowed to soar in the way it should

He's the play equivalent of Laurence Connor, reliable but no style of his own. 

[Being Alive]

Jul 7, 2023 13:03:52 GMT Jon said:

Jul 7, 2023 12:53:36 GMT Being Alive said:

I think some people have decided Matthew Dunster is a much better director than he actually is - I really enjoyed Hangmen a few years back, but otherwise everything I've seen of his always had some problem that stopped it from being as good as it could be (although with 2:22 I'm not entirely sure how you improve on what is just not a very good play)

It's an even bigger shame here because the play is so brilliant, it's such a letdown that it hasn't been allowed to soar in the way it should

He's the play equivalent of Laurence Connor, reliable but no style of his own. 

Bingo

[tal]

I went to this expecting the worst, based on what I had read here and in reviews. But while I definitely would not call this a good play, I was quite entertained by it, mainly with the first act. However, neither the text nor the direction seem to know where they're going.

I think the whole thing lost focus, and I left the theatre longing for what this could have been.

[Rory]

Jul 7, 2023 12:46:47 GMT lookingatthestars said:

Oooooh I remember this Decadent production, it was very good. They actor who played the priest in Derry Girls, Peter Campion I think, was Katurian. It was the first time i saw the play and think they got the comic timings spot on. I also remember the dramatisations of the stories being beautifully stark. It's such a twisted, darkly comic play, the directing really is so critical, makes me see how very important good directors are.

Totally off topic, but this does not warrent a threat so I do apologize.....Rory will you be able to catch Druid's mammoth staging of all the O Casey Dublin plays this summer when they play the Lyric in Blefast? Or any of the other Irish dates?

Hi, yes, hoping to catch as much of the trilogy as I can, although I won't do the full day experience!

[Mr Snow]

Talent free zone.

Avoid or bring your own pillow.

[mrbarnaby]

How did this all go so wrong?!!!

[Being Alive]

It just kind of baffles me that if you're going to gender swap it, why not gender swap it for an actual actress like Anne Marie Duff or something (not the right age but you get me)