1,255 posts
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Post by theatrelover123 on Nov 3, 2019 23:30:04 GMT
The place really isn’t doing well at all. Seems to have a constant stream of flops that make it no money. How is it managing to survive? They should really start using similar techniques other companies use with seat-filling and Rush tickets etc to build word of mouth and gain exposure. Erm they do. Pretty much every Charing Cross show has been on papering and seat filling sites and groups daily for the last few years. |
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Post by stagemanager on Nov 4, 2019 1:15:09 GMT
The place really isn’t doing well at all. Seems to have a constant stream of flops that make it no money. How is it managing to survive? They should really start using similar techniques other companies use with seat-filling and Rush tickets etc to build word of mouth and gain exposure. Erm they do. Pretty much every Charing Cross show has been on papering and seat filling sites and groups daily for the last few years. I think that is part of their problem. Everyone knows they are going to discount or make seats available through papering and consequently nobody buys tickets, people just wait for the freebies. How many people who have had a free or heavily discounted ticket can honestly say that they encouraged someone else they know to go and pay for a ticket at a show? |
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4,361 posts
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Post by shady23 on Nov 4, 2019 8:18:18 GMT
The problem is when these people are bragging about getting in for free.
On an occasion recently (another show) two men came in bragging loudly "not a bad view at all for FREE" and from their faces I could see it really annoyed the people around them, who must have felt ripped off. I hadn't paid either but I didn't feel the need to tell the entire stalls.
"What a great view" would have sufficed.
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544 posts
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Post by amp09 on Nov 4, 2019 9:11:51 GMT
The place really isn’t doing well at all. Seems to have a constant stream of flops that make it no money. How is it managing to survive? They should really start using similar techniques other companies use with seat-filling and Rush tickets etc to build word of mouth and gain exposure. Erm they do. Pretty much every Charing Cross show has been on papering and seat filling sites and groups daily for the last few years. I must be a member of the wrong sites then. Joined several months ago and not seen any. |
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544 posts
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Post by amp09 on Nov 4, 2019 9:13:31 GMT
The problem is when these people are bragging about getting in for free. On an occasion recently (another show) two men came in bragging loudly "not a bad view at all for FREE" and from their faces I could see it really annoyed the people around them, who must have felt ripped off. I hadn't paid either but I didn't feel the need to tell the entire stalls. "What a great view" would have sufficed. Probably the same two guys who posted it on a West End FB page and got reported and their membership revoked. That’ll teach them. I happily keep my mouth shut in exchange for freebies - perks of being a theatre fan. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 13:12:23 GMT
The problem is when these people are bragging about getting in for free. On an occasion recently (another show) two men came in bragging loudly "not a bad view at all for FREE" and from their faces I could see it really annoyed the people around them, who must have felt ripped off. I hadn't paid either but I didn't feel the need to tell the entire stalls. "What a great view" would have sufficed. This is infuriating to me. Seat filling is a service not to be bragged about. You get your ticket, watch the show and if you like it, you tell your friends! That's the whole point of it. Some people might ruin it for everyone, in the end. I also think that the Charing Cross Theatre is overpriced. I think if they went for lower, rounded prices (£10, £20, £30) I think more people would be interested. They also suffer from no passing trade like the Ambassadors, so that is tough. It's a nice theatre, I preferred the old stage setup but sound has always been below par. And Soho Cinders is no exception, the band was just a touch louder than the cast for my liking. |
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5,142 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Nov 4, 2019 13:47:45 GMT
The place really isn’t doing well at all. Seems to have a constant stream of flops that make it no money. How is it managing to survive? The companies are small enough to be exempt from filing full accounts, but Charing Cross Theatre Ltd, and its parent, Off Broadway Theatres UK Ltd, are both behind in submitting their latest annual accounts. |
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Post by austink on Nov 4, 2019 14:59:59 GMT
note the theatre owner hasn’t produced many shows in the venue since Titanic and Ragtime (ie they are just a receiving house for the most part). I believe they make most of the money off the players bar which has a fair number of patrons who don’t go to the shows in the theatre and who take advantage of their regulation of being open til 3am. The place really isn’t doing well at all. Seems to have a constant stream of flops that make it no money. How is it managing to survive? The companies are small enough to be exempt from filing full accounts, but Charing Cross Theatre Ltd, and its parent, Off Broadway Theatres UK Ltd, are both behind in submitting their latest annual accounts. |
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544 posts
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Post by amp09 on Nov 4, 2019 18:21:28 GMT
The place really isn’t doing well at all. Seems to have a constant stream of flops that make it no money. How is it managing to survive? The companies are small enough to be exempt from filing full accounts, but Charing Cross Theatre Ltd, and its parent, Off Broadway Theatres UK Ltd, are both behind in submitting their latest annual accounts. Oh I hope there’s no fiddling going on a la Patisserie Valerie... |
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Post by stagemanager on Nov 5, 2019 9:10:09 GMT
Reducing the ticket prices from the outset might make the show uneconomical before it starts. In my experience of working in a variety of venues the ticket prices are set by the costs of putting on a show. I know from friends that have worked on productions there, that the venue insists that anyone who works on shows produced at the venue are paid properly (unlike at some venues, who keep ticket prices low by underpaying actors and crew). I would imagine the overheads of running a theatre in that location as opposed to some of the other comparably sized off west end theatres must be considerably larger. Also while I agree that there is little to no passing trade at the venue, I can’t imagine that some other venues such as Southwark Playhouse or the Park Theatre have much passing trade and yet they manage to survive and sell their shows. I may be wrong, but I am not sure if fringe venues generally rely on passing trade as much as the larger venues. I would think their stock audiences are local theatre fans (who know about what shows are playing) as opposed to tourists who don’t mind what they see but just want have a night out in a London theatre. |
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543 posts
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Post by freckles on Nov 5, 2019 10:35:00 GMT
Also while I agree that there is little to no passing trade at the venue, I can’t imagine that some other venues such as Southwark Playhouse or the Park Theatre have much passing trade and yet they manage to survive and sell their shows. I may be wrong, but I am not sure if fringe venues generally rely on passing trade as much as the larger venues. I would think their stock audiences are local theatre fans (who know about what shows are playing) as opposed to tourists who don’t mind what they see but just want have a night out in a London theatre. It doesn't help that the box office is hardly ever manned. Even on a performance day they open very last minute. So anyone who did happen to be passing, or had heard about the show, has reduced options to book compared to other venues.
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736 posts
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Post by dippy on Nov 5, 2019 10:42:37 GMT
It doesn't help that the box office is hardly ever manned. Even on a performance day they open very last minute. So anyone who did happen to be passing, or had heard about the show, has reduced options to book compared to other venues. I've seen people standing outside during the day wondering why the box office doesn't open till 5pm (I think that's when it opens). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 11:18:18 GMT
Reducing the ticket prices from the outset might make the show uneconomical before it starts. In my experience of working in a variety of venues the ticket prices are set by the costs of putting on a show. I know from friends that have worked on productions there, that the venue insists that anyone who works on shows produced at the venue are paid properly (unlike at some venues, who keep ticket prices low by underpaying actors and crew). I would imagine the overheads of running a theatre in that location as opposed to some of the other comparably sized off west end theatres must be considerably larger. Also while I agree that there is little to no passing trade at the venue, I can’t imagine that some other venues such as Southwark Playhouse or the Park Theatre have much passing trade and yet they manage to survive and sell their shows. I may be wrong, but I am not sure if fringe venues generally rely on passing trade as much as the larger venues. I would think their stock audiences are local theatre fans (who know about what shows are playing) as opposed to tourists who don’t mind what they see but just want have a night out in a London theatre. Getting paid enough is definitely important. But, overpaying can be an issue too. Equity minimum is necessary, but anything too far over just sways things the other way. |
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543 posts
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Post by freckles on Nov 5, 2019 11:19:23 GMT
It doesn't help that the box office is hardly ever manned. Even on a performance day they open very last minute. So anyone who did happen to be passing, or had heard about the show, has reduced options to book compared to other venues. I've seen people standing outside during the day wondering why the box office doesn't open till 5pm (I think that's when it opens).
I've stood outside waiting to collect my ticket much later than that! The building may be open but the box office window isn't, necessarily.
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736 posts
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Post by dippy on Nov 5, 2019 12:13:56 GMT
I've stood outside waiting to collect my ticket much later than that! The building may be open but the box office window isn't, necessarily.
That's just silly, just checked their website and it says two hours before the performance but from what you've said I'm guessing that's not the case. |
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318 posts
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Nov 6, 2019 8:48:27 GMT
Yes, I had that experience. Wanted to buya ticket for Woman in White online, but the system wouldn't accept my credit card. No real help from staff. So I tried 1-2 times during my next London visit to go by the box office to buy a ticket in advance... it was never open despite signs saying it should be. Ended up going just before the performance and buying a ticket. Remember the theatre being half-full at that matinee and while I loved the show I didn't like the theatre much, auditorium felt very old and dark.
While I was at first interested in the current production I don't like the current layout of the auditorium, so that decided it for me basically.
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Post by austink on Nov 6, 2019 11:09:13 GMT
Agree with your partially here in understanding they pay properly but that is the same as any in town theatre (Southwark notably bad here out of town). You have to look at the broader market in pricing tickets and this show is being relatively punchy compared to what else is on. If this show sold well, they would likely make a profit (even with discounting) but noting that they have over 15,000 seats to cover, they need to be more dynamic in their approach to marketing and ticket pricing. They haven’t done any discounting with the ticket agents and they are fighting against not being on TKTS or Today Tix, which would likely benefit their audience demographic. Also, the Park and Southwark have more inbuilt audiences and the benefit of shows in regular rotation, which helps with your indirect marketing. As you point out, this theatre has become infamous for papering, and I know many of my friends that wait until shows on on the services before going. They have covered the Six fans and whatever Jamie fans want to see this but that (plus the related twitter echo chamber) is only going to move the needle so far. I am sure lots of theatres have this issue but as CC do longer runs and a larger house, it is more notable than the rest of the Off West end houses. Hope they can do some rethinking of how to make this house work again (starting with a new ticketing service). Reducing the ticket prices from the outset might make the show uneconomical before it starts. In my experience of working in a variety of venues the ticket prices are set by the costs of putting on a show. I know from friends that have worked on productions there, that the venue insists that anyone who works on shows produced at the venue are paid properly (unlike at some venues, who keep ticket prices low by underpaying actors and crew). I would imagine the overheads of running a theatre in that location as opposed to some of the other comparably sized off west end theatres must be considerably larger. Also while I agree that there is little to no passing trade at the venue, I can’t imagine that some other venues such as Southwark Playhouse or the Park Theatre have much passing trade and yet they manage to survive and sell their shows. I may be wrong, but I am not sure if fringe venues generally rely on passing trade as much as the larger venues. I would think their stock audiences are local theatre fans (who know about what shows are playing) as opposed to tourists who don’t mind what they see but just want have a night out in a London theatre. |
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Post by austink on Nov 6, 2019 18:52:33 GMT
So eating the booking fee. First small £2.50 discount on top price seats appeared with Londontheatredirect today. |
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Post by stagemanager on Nov 7, 2019 0:28:14 GMT
Agree with your partially here in understanding they pay properly but that is the same as any in town theatre (Southwark notably bad here out of town). You have to look at the broader market in pricing tickets and this show is being relatively punchy compared to what else is on. If this show sold well, they would likely make a profit (even with discounting) but noting that they have over 15,000 seats to cover, they need to be more dynamic in their approach to marketing and ticket pricing. They haven’t done any discounting with the ticket agents and they are fighting against not being on TKTS or Today Tix, which would likely benefit their audience demographic. Also, the Park and Southwark have more inbuilt audiences and the benefit of shows in regular rotation, which helps with your indirect marketing. As you point out, this theatre has become infamous for papering, and I know many of my friends that wait until shows on on the services before going. They have covered the Six fans and whatever Jamie fans want to see this but that (plus the related twitter echo chamber) is only going to move the needle so far. I am sure lots of theatres have this issue but as CC do longer runs and a larger house, it is more notable than the rest of the Off West end houses. Hope they can do some rethinking of how to make this house work again (starting with a new ticketing service). Reducing the ticket prices from the outset might make the show uneconomical before it starts. In my experience of working in a variety of venues the ticket prices are set by the costs of putting on a show. I know from friends that have worked on productions there, that the venue insists that anyone who works on shows produced at the venue are paid properly (unlike at some venues, who keep ticket prices low by underpaying actors and crew). I would imagine the overheads of running a theatre in that location as opposed to some of the other comparably sized off west end theatres must be considerably larger. Also while I agree that there is little to no passing trade at the venue, I can’t imagine that some other venues such as Southwark Playhouse or the Park Theatre have much passing trade and yet they manage to survive and sell their shows. I may be wrong, but I am not sure if fringe venues generally rely on passing trade as much as the larger venues. I would think their stock audiences are local theatre fans (who know about what shows are playing) as opposed to tourists who don’t mind what they see but just want have a night out in a London theatre. I agree with you with the discounting for the ticket agents would be helpful to them. I think you are right that’s it’s madness they are not on Today Tix, but I believe TKTS only sells tickets for producers and venues who are members of UK Theatre or SOLT and if the venue was a member it would have to pay west end wages and the shows would be uneconomical. I am also aware that another venue, I know, approached TKTS about them selling their tickets and the West End Managers rejected it firmly as they didn’t like the idea off Off West End shows being sold there and being given the same exposure and credibility of their own shows. |
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4,786 posts
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Post by Mark on Nov 7, 2019 23:10:19 GMT
I went to the matinee today,
A few returning cast members from the Union but in an all new production. Michaela Stern and Natalie Harman again stealing the show as the ugly sisters - I’m so over men was one of the standout number for me today, such high energy. I also think “You Shall Go To The Ball” is one of the best act one closers there is.
I’ve seen a few incarnations of Soho Cinders and I thought the staging and production values here were very good. The score is so strong and it’s nice to see a fully realised production.
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215 posts
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Post by frosty on Nov 8, 2019 12:16:32 GMT
Just had an email from Charing Cross Theatre with this discount offer when booking direct with them:
"A limited special offer is now available: use promo code FIFTEENMINUTES online, by phone or in person to get £10.00 off top price tickets*! Discount offer is valid on all performances until Saturday 16th November, so don't leave it too late!"
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175 posts
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Post by james1969 on Nov 9, 2019 18:42:35 GMT
What do we reckon the chances of an extension are now that it doesn’t appear to be doing so well ?
You would think they would want to put it on sale soon for the lucrative Christmas market if so
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642 posts
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Post by Stasia on Nov 11, 2019 8:32:43 GMT
What do we reckon the chances of an extension are now that it doesn’t appear to be doing so well ? You would think they would want to put it on sale soon for the lucrative Christmas market if so I have the tightest schedule so I am wishing fo these to extend and not to at the same time. If they extend, I won't see &Juliet till March! |
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Post by FrontroverPaul on Nov 11, 2019 10:56:50 GMT
What do we reckon the chances of an extension are now that it doesn’t appear to be doing so well ? You would think they would want to put it on sale soon for the lucrative Christmas market if so The opening post on this thread gives the end date as 4 January 2020 but Soho Cinders is currently scheduled to close on 21 December. Was the 4 January date never correct, or has the run already been reduced by the two weeks over Christmas and New Year ? |
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Post by james1969 on Nov 11, 2019 11:55:22 GMT
Was the 4 January date never correct, or has the run already been reduced by the two weeks over Christmas and New Year ? Apparently the cast are contracted to 4th January but the final two weeks have not been announced to date. |
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