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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 17:05:25 GMT
It did cross my mind that it could be seen as a racist overtone by some. Dante Cadbury could be the Chocolate Devil also. But Dave is certainly my favourite nickname for Rodney. I would be so tempted to reply to one of his tweets and start it Dave, just to see what reaction if any it got. I was surprised to learn Dave was in his early 30's I'd assumed he was fairly fresh out of training so perhaps he does see his career window closing as there is less demand for older chorus dancers although he does look young for his age. Do older chorus dancers usually move onto Dance Captain, assistant/resident choreographer roles more? Thank you for the idea, I have just done exactly that! Disclaimer - All in the name of a bit of fun and to keep this thread going of course I may be in the minority here, but I think some posts on this thread have crossed the line into playground bullying. Taking to a performer's social media profile to comment a joke at their expense, all for the entertainment of fellow board members?? Perhaps there was valid discussion when a performer is openly criticising a show and their employer while still being employed in that show; but now people are just posting screenshots and links to social media posts, which have no connection to Cinderella or ALW, purely for ridicule and name calling. |
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Post by Oliver on Jun 16, 2022 17:11:57 GMT
I think it's pretty clear why it's weird? Regardless of your opinions of the lyrics themselves, the fact that the QUEEN is singing sexually explicit lyrics about HER OWN SON is the problem here. Not sure what more of an argument needs to be made about that? 'Let's say the boy was well-equipped' and '[he] could have had any girl he wanted' sung so suggestively it's like she's also including herself in that category are not appropriate things for that character to be singing. Truly if you cannot see that, I don't know what else I can possibly say here. It is ‘icky’ beyond belief. If it was the other way round; a father singing that about his daughter there would have been a Daily Mail front page spread denouncing all involved as morally corrupt (instead of the usual morally corrupt that they actively promote). Surely if it was the other way round that would accord more with modern sensibilities and political correctness, making the woman the prime mover in sexual relations? What they did was riskier. |
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Post by danb on Jun 16, 2022 17:22:24 GMT
Either way is gross Oliver. Please don’t try and paint it as an intelligent mediation on sexual politics.
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Post by Paulw on Jun 16, 2022 18:19:29 GMT
Thank you for the idea, I have just done exactly that! Disclaimer - All in the name of a bit of fun and to keep this thread going of course I may be in the minority here, but I think some posts on this thread have crossed the line into playground bullying. Taking to a performer's social media profile to comment a joke at their expense, all for the entertainment of fellow board members?? Perhaps there was valid discussion when a performer is openly criticising a show and their employer while still being employed in that show; but now people are just posting screenshots and links to social media posts, which have no connection to Cinderella or ALW, purely for ridicule and name calling. Have you seen what I posted? It was respectful and asked a valid question. Don’t quote playground bullying at me as you don’t know me and what I have been put through myself the past 4 years, I suggest you comment only when you have all the facts. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 18:35:49 GMT
Are you saying that characters can’t be written like this or that you just find a character like this inappropriate?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 16, 2022 18:49:10 GMT
Thank you for the idea, I have just done exactly that! Disclaimer - All in the name of a bit of fun and to keep this thread going of course I may be in the minority here, but I think some posts on this thread have crossed the line into playground bullying. Taking to a performer's social media profile to comment a joke at their expense, all for the entertainment of fellow board members??Perhaps there was valid discussion when a performer is openly criticising a show and their employer while still being employed in that show; but now people are just posting screenshots and links to social media posts, which have no connection to Cinderella or ALW, purely for ridicule and name calling. This performer has used the platform of the show and his social media accounts to make repeated comments about the creatives and about the way the production was run. It IS up for discussion. He’s also got into public spats with members of the public about the show as recently as 2 days ago. When he stops referencing the show and the public’s comments about the show and his performance in it then we can expect people here to stop commenting on his SM posts. |
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Post by properjob on Jun 16, 2022 19:08:20 GMT
I may be in the minority here, but I think some posts on this thread have crossed the line into playground bullying. Taking to a performer's social media profile to comment a joke at their expense, all for the entertainment of fellow board members??Perhaps there was valid discussion when a performer is openly criticising a show and their employer while still being employed in that show; but now people are just posting screenshots and links to social media posts, which have no connection to Cinderella or ALW, purely for ridicule and name calling. This performer has used the platform of the show and his social media accounts to make repeated comments about the creatives and about the way the production was run. It IS up for discussion. He’s also got into public spats with members of the public about the show as recently as 2 days ago. When he stops referencing the show and the public’s comments about the show and his performance in it then we can expect people here to stop commenting on his SM posts. This board contains lots of useful information and often interesting discussions about shows. Unfortunately it also often contains anoymouses posters just being nasty about real named people. It also occasionally suggests contacting those real people to wind them up which is probably meant as a joke but if carried out is trolling. I'm fairly confident if one anonymous poster did it to another anonymous poster on this board the admins would intervene regardless if they had previously made inappropriate statements themselves. So I am disappointed that no intervention is made when it is directed to a named person just because they happen to work in theatre. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 19:11:00 GMT
I may be in the minority here, but I think some posts on this thread have crossed the line into playground bullying. Taking to a performer's social media profile to comment a joke at their expense, all for the entertainment of fellow board members??Perhaps there was valid discussion when a performer is openly criticising a show and their employer while still being employed in that show; but now people are just posting screenshots and links to social media posts, which have no connection to Cinderella or ALW, purely for ridicule and name calling. He’s also got into public spats with members of the public about the show as recently as 2 days ago. When he stops referencing the show and the public’s comments about the show and his performance in it then we can expect people here to stop commenting on his SM posts. Which is exactly why I said in my post that there is valid discussion to be had when he's openly criticising his show and employers. I know nothing about the guy, and from what I have seen on his social media, I have no interest in following him or his career. But what I find uncomfortable is when someone comes back and tells the group they've just called him a name on social media for everyone else's amusement. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 19:16:06 GMT
I may be in the minority here, but I think some posts on this thread have crossed the line into playground bullying. Taking to a performer's social media profile to comment a joke at their expense, all for the entertainment of fellow board members?? Perhaps there was valid discussion when a performer is openly criticising a show and their employer while still being employed in that show; but now people are just posting screenshots and links to social media posts, which have no connection to Cinderella or ALW, purely for ridicule and name calling. Have you seen what I posted? It was respectful and asked a valid question. Don’t quote playground bullying at me as you don’t know me and what I have been put through myself the past 4 years, I suggest you comment only when you have all the facts. I haven't seen what you have posted. Nor do I know what you've been through (or what Rodney's been through, for that matter), but I don't see the relevance. My comments regarding bullying are based on what you literally said in your post that you had just done - which was to follow through on someone's suggestion of going to Twitter and calling him a name for the entertainment of the board. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 19:43:38 GMT
I made the Rodney - Dave joke as it was an old one I heard about contacting a random Rodney and starting the message Hi Dave. I would not intend anyone to do that to Rodney V and the person who said they had done it was joking about doing it.
The joke would probably go over Rodney V's head anyway and was just something to keep the board going.
Some people don't get irony and often jokes or references will only work for a certain age group it is appropriate to.
The joke I made I'd expect to be taken as literally as when someone said RV had thrown their phone to the floor and started saying he was Dante Cadbury.
Rodders doesn't appear to have tweeted for a few days and is likely enjoying his sunny break and having a good time. I've never seen the guy perform as far as I can remember, I have no idea what his singing and dancing ability is like, his race, gender identification, sexuality has nothing to do with me. At worse I'd think of him as a bit of a prat regarding his posts and someone you might follow as his posts might be entertaining and unintentionally funny.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 20:15:31 GMT
I made the Rodney - Dave joke as it was an old one I heard about contacting a random Rodney and starting the message Hi Dave. I would not intend anyone to do that to Rodney V and the person who said they had done it was joking about doing it.The joke would probably go over Rodney V's head anyway and was just something to keep the board going. Some people don't get irony and often jokes or references will only work for a certain age group it is appropriate to. The joke I made I'd expect to be taken as literally as when someone said RV had thrown their phone to the floor and started saying he was Dante Cadbury. Rodders doesn't appear to have tweeted for a few days and is likely enjoying his sunny break and having a good time. I've never seen the guy perform as far as I can remember, I have no idea what his singing and dancing ability is like, his race, gender identification, sexuality has nothing to do with me. At worse I'd think of him as a bit of a prat regarding his posts and someone you might follow as his posts might be entertaining and unintentionally funny. No, they did do it. I have now seen the tweet. I get the joke - I too am within that age group - and of course there are are much worse things to call someone. But it was still an insincere tweet, trolling for the comedy value on here. To be honest, my issue was the tone and mentality this thread had taken in general. It's just that was the post that prompted me to respond. But as I said, I may be in the minority in feeling that way. |
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Post by robertb213 on Jun 16, 2022 21:04:15 GMT
Maybe time to revert back to saying how dreadful the show was 😁 I still can't decide whether the score, the lyrics, the story or the book took the overall wooden spoon award!
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Post by inthenose on Jun 16, 2022 21:05:05 GMT
Are you seriously reprimanding someone about sending an "insincere tweet"? Come on... You have to admit, that's pretty funny.
Dave wants to be "the show". I say let him be the show.
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Post by inthenose on Jun 16, 2022 21:12:45 GMT
Maybe time to revert back to saying how dreadful the show was 😁 I still can't decide whether the score, the lyrics, the story or the book took the overall wooden spoon award! I think the best aspect was the music. Couple of decent tunes in there, though my favourite "Sea Witch Song" was lost. The book was atrocious, which considering it is (tenuously) based and directly named after a beloved story which is hundreds of years old, is a pretty big achievement. The lyrics are hit and miss - mostly miss. The book and Laurence Connor's weak direction thereof is what "done it in". |
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Post by robertb213 on Jun 16, 2022 21:22:28 GMT
Is a couple of decent songs enough to count it as a good score though? I thought it lacked any kind of cohesion and identity as to what it was actually aiming to be. I think if any other composer had put it out there, it would've been savaged. It's only really "Far Too Gone" and "I Know I Have A Heart" that have any trace of Webber's signature in them.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jun 16, 2022 21:28:15 GMT
Can there be a category at the next WOS awards for Best Show Drama? Nominees could be: Gemma Collins for her achy foot Rodney Vubya for his small ego Isaac Hesketh for their inclusive tweets Cock for its cheap tickets Andy Webz for his well-written letter Dave Davidson (and Shenton and Lukowski getting into a Twitter spat over it) has to be in the running too. |
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Post by dan28 on Jun 16, 2022 21:45:30 GMT
I may be in the minority here, but I think some posts on this thread have crossed the line into playground bullying. Taking to a performer's social media profile to comment a joke at their expense, all for the entertainment of fellow board members?? In my opinion this individual is bullying the audience. He posted that he woke up one day and decided he did not feel like singing the score, so he ad-libbed his way through the score and those ad-libbs were all over the place too. And then he tweeted and bragged about it. Now I like me some ad-lib if done by the real Whitney Houston, but not if it's in every line, the ad-libs totally fail, and in this setting. That is disdain towards the audience and the creators of the show. I am not paying to see a show and be belittled like that. Why would anyone expect that behaviour like that would not get negative or mocking reactions? A little snark is part of the theatre world too. But that's just my opinion. |
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Post by d'James on Jun 16, 2022 21:54:54 GMT
I think we need to look up the word ‘bullying.’
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Post by ceebee on Jun 16, 2022 21:58:30 GMT
Wouldn't it have been great if Dave had rocked up one evening in Roy Taylor's roller skates twirling Trigger's broom instead of ribbons? That would have impressed me far more than some ad-libbed dot juggling.
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Post by inthenose on Jun 16, 2022 22:02:25 GMT
I may be in the minority here, but I think some posts on this thread have crossed the line into playground bullying. Taking to a performer's social media profile to comment a joke at their expense, all for the entertainment of fellow board members?? In my opinion this individual is bullying the audience. He posted that he woke up one day and decided he did not feel like singing the score, so he ad-libbed his way through the score and those ad-libbs were all over the place too. And then he tweeted and bragged about it. Now I like me some ad-lib if done by the real Whitney Houston, but not if it's in every line, the ad-libs totally fail, and in this setting. That is disdain towards the audience and the creators of the show. I am not paying to see a show and be belittled like that. Why would anyone expect that behaviour like that would not get negative or mocking reactions? A little snark is part of the theatre world too. But that's just my opinion. "I didn’t sing the dots and gave zero f**** doing so!" |
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Post by musicbox on Jun 16, 2022 23:08:04 GMT
In my opinion this individual is bullying the audience. He posted that he woke up one day and decided he did not feel like singing the score, so he ad-libbed his way through the score and those ad-libbs were all over the place too. And then he tweeted and bragged about it. Now I like me some ad-lib if done by the real Whitney Houston, but not if it's in every line, the ad-libs totally fail, and in this setting. That is disdain towards the audience and the creators of the show. I am not paying to see a show and be belittled like that. Why would anyone expect that behaviour like that would not get negative or mocking reactions? A little snark is part of the theatre world too. But that's just my opinion. "I didn’t sing the dots and gave zero f**** doing so!" I was there and the sad truth is that he didn't sing the dots, but the audience gave zero f**** when he was doing so. |
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Post by musicbox on Jun 16, 2022 23:42:43 GMT
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Post by viserys on Jun 17, 2022 6:21:26 GMT
The lyrics are hit and miss - mostly miss. This. Maybe it sounds weird, but I've come to "judge" musical theatre songs on how much I enjoy singing along with them. Intelligently crafted delicious lyrics makes me want to sing certain songs all day, while I struggle to get trite nonsense across my lips. Cinderella sadly often falls into the latter category. Titles like "I know I have a heart" and "Only you, lonely you" alone are cringeworthy. The melodies are glorious and typically ALW but I just can't get past those lyrics. "Bad Cinderella" could be very funny and clever, but is mostly lame. The story structure wasn't all that great either. Cinderella is introduced as this sassy rebel, then five minutes later comes the whiny reveal how it's all a facade (as if the audience can't guess). I would have loved for her to have a big "what am I gonna do?" song when the ball is announced, where she could have gone on about her inner conflict between wanting to stay true to her rebellious self or make concessions to fit in (and get the guy). I also often boggle at what constitutes "feminism" in musical theatre. Turning the tables to objectify men (well-built dancers though they may be) isn't it. If they wanted to see how you can turn medieval tropes into something modern, sassy and feminist, they should have taken a good long look at Matt Groening's "Disenchanted" and his chaotic princess Bean. (not sure why I'm even posting. But I've been a fan of ALW and his work for more than 30 years now and it just saddens me to see a new show of his go up into flames so spectacularly instead of giving him, if not another huge hit, at least a respectable success). |
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Post by karloscar on Jun 17, 2022 7:26:06 GMT
The melodies in Cinderella are not "glorious". They're ploddy and predictable, you're never surprised by where they go, and they sit so squarely on the beat that they lose any energy they might have had. The arrangements don't help either being incredibly old fashioned, and if your lead character only has self-pitying whiny ballads, echoed by an equally wimpy leading man your show is dead in the water. Can't just blame the lyricist here when he had nothing inspiring to work with.
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Post by dan28 on Jun 17, 2022 8:57:50 GMT
I was there and the sad truth is that he didn't sing the dots, but the audience gave zero f**** when he was doing so. That might be true for that very specific little group of obstinate, overly tolerant, present-giving stage door fans who attended that performance, but the overall respectful, paying, serious theatre audiences have a different opinion. |
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