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Post by Jon on Aug 16, 2021 18:19:07 GMT
Sorry I may be dim but I don't know what ALW is going on about. Aren't productions normally "sold" to overseas producers. For example Hamilton's original backers did not include Cameron Macintosh but he got involved - and added - to the list of producers on the London transfer and I'm sure that was because he "coughed up" some investment. Unless ALW likes to back his shows completely and have no outside involvement which - let's face it - sounds like the sort of thing he would prefer. Years ago there was a UK producer called Harold Fielding who would "buy up" Broadway shows to bring to London - Barnum,Mame & On the 20th Century are shows that spring to mind - that had none of the original USA producers involved unless I'm mistaken. I doubt Andrew invests his own money into his shows as that would be breaking the the top two cardinal rules of producing which is never put your own money in the show and NEVER PUT YOUR OWN MONEY IN THE SHOW! I believe with some shows, UK producers often get involved with some shows in exchange for future touring and West End rights, Sonia Friedman is the lead producer for To Kill a Mockingbird in the UK for example |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 16, 2021 18:24:07 GMT
Shenton needs to wind his neck in. He has always been an over generous 'critic'
More interested in having friends in the industry than maintaining a distance so that his reviews are fair and balanced.
His review of Carousel did not properly engage with the changes to the book and was pretty much a plot summary with praise for the leads
That is not how a critic should operate. But it does appear to be how Shenton does
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Post by ceebee on Aug 16, 2021 21:17:46 GMT
Bit gutted that it's my mugshot on the bit Shenton has quoted, as I had my facts right and was referring to Carousel. He was sat six rows down from me on press night, so I definitely didn't make it up... I'd have thought "there's no such thing as bad publicity" might apply in this instance and might drive people to his website.
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Post by inthenose on Aug 17, 2021 9:15:20 GMT
My enduring memory / the only time I've thought about Mark Shenton prior to this thread is when I saw and reviewed a show called "Big Society" at the then newly reopened and refurbished Leeds City Varieties theatre. As a lowly theatre blogger, my stock was low back then, but I was invited to the show to review it nonetheless. Mark was a big shot at The Stage in those days.
At the interval Mark was alone at the table hosting the free glasses of wine. I went up to grab one and said "hi". He looked me up and down, asked where I was from, sneered at the answer, turned away from me 180 degrees and went and stood behind Michael Billington who was chatting with someone else.
I walked back to then partner and I distinctly remember what I said. "That's Mark Shenton, the guy from The Stage - what a little man".
Never read his stuff since. He wasn't in the "crowd" then, and look where his career is now.
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Post by ceebee on Aug 17, 2021 10:36:09 GMT
I've always found it sad when people measure somebody's worth or status by whether they are "known" or not. It's the height of rudeness to blank somebody just because they're not in the club you yearn to be part of.
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Post by Dr Tom on Aug 17, 2021 11:26:49 GMT
My memory of Mark Shenton is queueing up for a show with unallocated seating, where he walked straight past everyone and took the best seats in the place.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2021 14:05:58 GMT
Mr Shenton is very inconsistent. He went on and on (usually tagging ALW etc) about how irresponsible the ill fated “freedom day” performance of Cinderella was.
But when it was cancelled turns out he was planning on going! Don’t know if he was gifted a ticket so forgot his principles. Or if for some unknown reason he bought one!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 17, 2021 15:21:19 GMT
Perhaps we should get back to discussing the show rather than Mr Shenton?
No-one responded to my question as to whether the comedy would translate to Broadway, if that’s where this ends up. From descriptions so far it sounds quite “British”. What do those who have seen it think?
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Post by alece10 on Aug 17, 2021 15:55:55 GMT
Perhaps we should get back to discussing the show rather than Mr Shenton? No-one responded to my question as to whether the comedy would translate to Broadway, if that’s where this ends up. From descriptions so far it sounds quite “British”. What do those who have seen it think? Very British. I doubt the Americans will know what a "knob" is. |
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Post by Dr Tom on Aug 17, 2021 16:49:08 GMT
Perhaps we should get back to discussing the show rather than Mr Shenton? No-one responded to my question as to whether the comedy would translate to Broadway, if that’s where this ends up. From descriptions so far it sounds quite “British”. What do those who have seen it think? There are a lot of panto elements - and panto really isn’t big outside the UK, But Cinderella does have the advantage of being a well-known story. |
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Post by properjob on Aug 17, 2021 17:26:02 GMT
I'm not sure it will translate that well to the USA. The whole opening is a pastiche of a panto opening number. When I watched it I surprised by the Britishness of it but that was because the only thing I knew about the book writer was that they had just won an Oscar so I assumed (turns out incorrectly) they were American.
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Post by ronnette on Aug 17, 2021 21:11:14 GMT
I've been working late for the pst few nights and I've found that I keep being drawn to the album....haven't seen the show yet.
It's really growing on me I have to say. Not sure why, because his voice is amazing, but I find I always skip 'only you'.
I adore Helen George's voice, do we know why she didn't take it to the stage?
As for translating to the US - from what I've heard I don't think they'd 'get' it. They are quite prudish over there, I think even a giant phalice sprayed onto a statue is enough to put them off!
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Post by ceebee on Aug 17, 2021 21:11:46 GMT
I think it'll be tweaked and taken to Broadway.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2021 21:21:50 GMT
Perhaps we should get back to discussing the show rather than Mr Shenton? No-one responded to my question as to whether the comedy would translate to Broadway, if that’s where this ends up. From descriptions so far it sounds quite “British”. What do those who have seen it think? There are a lot of panto elements - and panto really isn’t big outside the UK, But Cinderella does have the advantage of being a well-known story. A lot of panto elements? I can't think of any in this show. Maybe i have a different idea of pantos. There's no girl playing a boy as the lead, no dame, no audience call backs, no audience particpation, no singalong, no slapstick, no sweets thrown into the audience. ronnette Helen George left due to the show being pushed back and her being pregnant i believe. Also there is no phallus on the statue. If there was i didnt notice it in previews. |
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Post by ronnette on Aug 17, 2021 22:41:19 GMT
I’m sure I saw a production photo of the statue with a cock sprayed onto it…. Maybe I dreamt it?! It’s mentioned in the song too I think?
Shame re HG as she’s great. I’d have paid to see her!
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Post by Jon on Aug 17, 2021 22:42:41 GMT
Surely Helen George's commitments to Call the Midwife would have prevented her from appearing in Cinderella?
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Post by chernjam on Aug 17, 2021 22:52:46 GMT
I've been working late for the pst few nights and I've found that I keep being drawn to the album....haven't seen the show yet. It's really growing on me I have to say. Not sure why, because his voice is amazing, but I find I always skip 'only you'. I adore Helen George's voice, do we know why she didn't take it to the stage? As for translating to the US - from what I've heard I don't think they'd 'get' it. They are quite prudish over there, I think even a giant phalice sprayed onto a statue is enough to put them off! Broadway/US is prudish? had to laugh out loud over that. As an American I couldn't disagree more... and considering some of the other things that have played on our stages a giant spayed cock would hardly be shocking. There are elements that sound very british which didn't bother me when I was listening to it, but I would imagine could be tweaked with |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Aug 17, 2021 23:17:14 GMT
Broadway send us Hamilton and Moulin Rouge, and we send them Cinderella. Cruel.
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Post by carmella1 on Aug 18, 2021 4:06:30 GMT
Then what do you call the moron that is president now?
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Post by ronnette on Aug 18, 2021 5:41:43 GMT
Sorry for my sweeping statement on the Americans being prudish bits just my experience. My father has lived over there for 40 years, I have two US step mothers and 2 half siblings. On the occasions I have visited it’s just what I’ve observed. Maybe it’s because it was the North West?!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 7:29:09 GMT
I think you need to take a step back from the specific content of Cinderella and look at Broadway trends and ALW's popularity there more generally.
Similar to the West End, with exceptions of course, new sung through musicals are sadly not the current trend. Jukebox, films, non sung through and 'names' remain popular.
Further ALW's name alone tends to ensure something runs for at least a year or so here. The exception of course being Stephen Ward. But Love Never Dies, Woman In White, Whistle Down the Wind etc, not thought as big hits, but did all made it past a cast change. That isn't the case on Broadway, with his last success in the sung through oeuvre being Sunset Boulevard in the 90s (as we know it didn't make money for other reasons but it did have an excellent box office take). Since then there has only been School of Rock. But that is based on a popular film and is not sung through. Huge generalisation but also Americans love kids on stage more than we do. And there was probably some local appreciation that the show was developed there. But ALW the name doesn't guarantee you a year+ as it (usually) does here.
Anyway, those are the reasons I can't really see Cinderella being a huge success on Broadway.
As for the piece itself? I love it. I don't really see any panto elements in it myself. But yes, in addition to the above, I do find it quite British and I do think Americans may not 'get' it. Not prudish, not panto, there's just something I can't quite put into words which I think appeals to British sensibilities. Though I guess the fact in itself that I can't describe this means I may well be wrong.
And even though I think it would struggle to succeed on Broadway - my hunch is that ALW WILL aim to take it there. In which case we will all find out how well it does!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 7:30:53 GMT
In other news - press night tonight! Can't wait to hear if there are any changes, what they are, and what the critics write about it!
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Post by alison on Aug 18, 2021 17:24:34 GMT
But unless I’m remembering wrongly (and I know my memory isn’t brilliant, but it’s not been that long!) Cinderella isn’t sung through. I do agree with you that I’m not sure it “feels” like the sort of thing that will do well on Broadway though.
I’m in on a cheap ticket tonight for press night, entirely because I’m nosey about any changes. Wonder if I’ll spot anyone I even recognise, given that I don’t watch Love Island or the like.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 17:42:39 GMT
But unless I’m remembering wrongly (and I know my memory isn’t brilliant, but it’s not been that long!) Cinderella isn’t sung through. I do agree with you that I’m not sure it “feels” like the sort of thing that will do well on Broadway though. I’m in on a cheap ticket tonight for press night, entirely because I’m nosey about any changes. Wonder if I’ll spot anyone I even recognise, given that I don’t watch Love Island or the like. You're absolutely right. But it is almost sung through, and most of the dialogue underscored! |
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Post by fluxcapacitor on Aug 18, 2021 17:49:34 GMT
I think you need to take a step back from the specific content of Cinderella and look at Broadway trends and ALW's popularity there more generally. Similar to the West End, with exceptions of course, new sung through musicals are sadly not the current trend. Jukebox, films, non sung through and 'names' remain popular. Further ALW's name alone tends to ensure something runs for at least a year or so here. The exception of course being Stephen Ward. But Love Never Dies, Woman In White, Whistle Down the Wind etc, not thought as big hits, but did all made it past a cast change. That isn't the case on Broadway, with his last success in the sung through oeuvre being Sunset Boulevard in the 90s (as we know it didn't make money for other reasons but it did have an excellent box office take). Since then there has only been School of Rock. But that is based on a popular film and is not sung through. Huge generalisation but also Americans love kids on stage more than we do. And there was probably some local appreciation that the show was developed there. But ALW the name doesn't guarantee you a year+ as it (usually) does here. Anyway, those are the reasons I can't really see Cinderella being a huge success on Broadway. As for the piece itself? I love it. I don't really see any panto elements in it myself. But yes, in addition to the above, I do find it quite British and I do think Americans may not 'get' it. Not prudish, not panto, there's just something I can't quite put into words which I think appeals to British sensibilities. Though I guess the fact in itself that I can't describe this means I may well be wrong. And even though I think it would struggle to succeed on Broadway - my hunch is that ALW WILL aim to take it there. In which case we will all find out how well it does! Agree with you completely - this is not a show which will do well on Broadway in its current guise. I've seen it and unlike you I'm not a fan, but I do think it stands a much better chance in London - or even on a UK tour - due to its humour and general tone. Having said that, I also completely concur that there aren't really any panto elements, and panto has nothing to do with why the piece wouldn't do as well in the US. I think it's just our association as British audience members which parallels the show to a panto because of how familiar we are with these characters and setups in that context. If anything, I think the production battles hard against the panto tropes to try and avoid looking and sounding like one, and it's audience expectations which hold it back and give the auditorium a panto vibe even before it begins. Not least the little girls in Cinderella costumes waving multicoloured light toys above their heads. |
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