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Post by properjob on Jul 25, 2021 12:24:27 GMT
Automation doesn't make a good scenic design and also lack of automation doesn't make a bad scenic design.
I suspect automation would be very hard anyway in that theatre/set because of the revolve.
Does it actually use click tracks or are the armchair experts here confusing click tracks with using keyboard synthesisers?
If shows do have a lot of automation that is more likely to lead to click tracks to keep the music in sync with the scenery. Careful what you wish for.
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Post by scarpia on Jul 25, 2021 12:52:03 GMT
That's the worst Letts "review" I've ever read, and that's saying something. The same paper once had a piece by the late A A Gill a few years ago on the death of decenct theatre criticism and Letts' review exemplifies everything that's gone wrong that Gill highlighted.
Also, can you imagine the fury from RUG/ALW if this hadn't been a 5* review? We'd have got an earful from the Baron of Sydmonton of how unfair they'd been to him because the critic had only seen the show in previews and how wrong it is for any theatre critic to review of a preview show. But no, this review is one they'll use on their posters. Hypocrites.
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Post by ceebee on Jul 25, 2021 13:12:48 GMT
Not a fan of Quentin Letts at all, but even when a five star review is written for this show it seems people still want to b1tch it into the ground. So some people don't like it? Others clearly do. Having seen Anything Goes last night, there is a gargantuan gulf between these two shows in almost every category you can think of. I'd give Anything Goes six stars if the option was available, but still maintain that Cinderella for me scrapes four stars.
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Post by Figaro on Jul 25, 2021 13:40:57 GMT
He's to theatre criticism what the Queen Mother was to double glazing! Can’t get my head around this one! |
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Post by properjob on Jul 25, 2021 14:09:53 GMT
That's the worst Letts "review" I've ever read, and that's saying something. The same paper once had a piece by the late A A Gill a few years ago on the death of decenct theatre criticism and Letts' review exemplifies everything that's gone wrong that Gill highlighted. Also, can you imagine the fury from RUG/ALW if this hadn't been a 5* review? We'd have got an earful from the Baron of Sydmonton of how unfair they'd been to him because the critic had only seen the show in previews and how wrong it is for any theatre critic to review of a preview show. But no, this review is one they'll use on their posters. Hypocrites. He would be well within his rights to be furious about crtitcs reviewing a show before opening night. It is not right. In this case there is no damage done because the review is postive. That isn't hypocrtical. Of course much much worse is people reviewing a show without having seen it. Doesn't seem to have stopped some (and I stress only some) people here though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 14:15:16 GMT
To be honest the waiting until opening night for reviews just seems more and more outdated and makes critics less relevant. Social media reviews and word of mouth spreads from the moment of the first preview. A general consensus is already out by the time critics get in. Critics are fighting to remain relevant as it is and in the social media age it doesn't pay to be last. Everyone races to be first these days.
I also personally feel onces shows decided to charge people full price for previews they lost the right to people holding off opinions until opening night.
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Post by danb on Jul 25, 2021 14:20:23 GMT
Can’t get my head around this one! Neither are/were good at it. It isn’t even accurate. Lizzie BL did our conservatory in the late 80’s and made a cracking job of it. |
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5,155 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 25, 2021 14:22:52 GMT
Doing a cracking job on a conservatory is the last thing you want, surely?
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Post by scarpia on Jul 25, 2021 16:10:32 GMT
That's the worst Letts "review" I've ever read, and that's saying something. The same paper once had a piece by the late A A Gill a few years ago on the death of decenct theatre criticism and Letts' review exemplifies everything that's gone wrong that Gill highlighted. Also, can you imagine the fury from RUG/ALW if this hadn't been a 5* review? We'd have got an earful from the Baron of Sydmonton of how unfair they'd been to him because the critic had only seen the show in previews and how wrong it is for any theatre critic to review of a preview show. But no, this review is one they'll use on their posters. Hypocrites. He would be well within his rights to be furious about crtitcs reviewing a show before opening night. It is not right. In this case there is no damage done because the review is postive. That isn't hypocrtical. Of course much much worse is people reviewing a show without having seen it. Doesn't seem to have stopped some (and I stress only some) people here though. Hypocritical was probably the wrong choice of word, admittedly. It *is* a case of double-standards, though. You can't endorse/use reviews of previews that are laudatory and then at the same time condemn reviews of previews that don't praise you on the basis that it isn't fair to review previews. |
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Post by Oliver on Jul 25, 2021 16:22:53 GMT
I loved the show but I can tell from Quentin Letts's review that he doesn't share my enthusiasm for it.
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Post by showtoones on Jul 25, 2021 19:08:34 GMT
There is also the thing where Letts may be trying to help the theater by giving it a good review after the horrendous year and a half we have all had. After 9/11 Mamma Mia opened up to raves on Broadway as it was of its time and people needed to have fun after 9/11 and the reviewers wanted to bring people back to the theater.
And like it or don't like it, the show employs a lot of people who depend on audiences coming to pay their bills.
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Post by Oliver on Jul 25, 2021 19:14:38 GMT
There is also the thing where Letts may be trying to help the theater by giving it a good review after the horrendous year and a half we have all had. After 9/11 Mamma Mia opened up to raves on Broadway as it was of its time and people needed to have fun after 9/11 and the reviewers wanted to bring people back to the theater. And like it or don't like it, the show employs a lot of people who depend on audiences coming to pay their bills. That's not the job of a critic. He should give his honest opinion. |
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Post by chernjam on Jul 25, 2021 20:39:42 GMT
To be honest the waiting until opening night for reviews just seems more and more outdated and makes critics less relevant. Social media reviews and word of mouth spreads from the moment of the first preview. A general consensus is already out by the time critics get in. Critics are fighting to remain relevant as it is and in the social media age it doesn't pay to be last. Everyone races to be first these days. I also personally feel onces shows decided to charge people full price for previews they lost the right to people holding off opinions until opening night. You make a good point that I hadn't really thought about before. If it wasn't so expensive, they could do "Out of town" tryouts maybe 6 months out from a planned opening and just expect that within the first few days there would be reviews and such. I'm happy for ALW to have a 5 star review right now. Some of the criticisms towards him have seemed pretty misplaced to me. Unless I'm mistaken, the guy's been working on this for years, and been leading the charge to get theatre re-opened more than any other public figure I've seen/heard. To be doing that battle while trying to oversee a creative enterprise and producing responsibilities, that's a lot for a 73 year old. Happy he's getting some public support |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jul 25, 2021 21:25:52 GMT
Quentin Letts ‘reviews’ have a very special way of not actually giving any insight into the production at all. Just a series of bitchy comments strung together.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 21:41:23 GMT
There is also the thing where Letts may be trying to help the theater by giving it a good review after the horrendous year and a half we have all had. After 9/11 Mamma Mia opened up to raves on Broadway as it was of its time and people needed to have fun after 9/11 and the reviewers wanted to bring people back to the theater. And like it or don't like it, the show employs a lot of people who depend on audiences coming to pay their bills. Thats almost like coning people out of their money! Obviously some people might agree with his review, but giving a great review just to get some bums on seats is very dubious. |
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Post by steve10086 on Jul 25, 2021 21:44:38 GMT
There is also the thing where Letts may be trying to help the theater by giving it a good review after the horrendous year and a half we have all had. After 9/11 Mamma Mia opened up to raves on Broadway as it was of its time and people needed to have fun after 9/11 and the reviewers wanted to bring people back to the theater. And like it or don't like it, the show employs a lot of people who depend on audiences coming to pay their bills. Thats almost like coning people out of their money! Obviously some people might agree with his review, but giving a great review just to get some bums on seats is very dubious. Anyone who follows the advice of Quentin Letts’ gets everything they deserve! |
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Post by musicalmarge on Jul 26, 2021 11:03:42 GMT
Automation doesn't make a good scenic design and also lack of automation doesn't make a bad scenic design. I suspect automation would be very hard anyway in that theatre/set because of the revolve. Does it actually use click tracks or are the armchair experts here confusing click tracks with using keyboard synthesisers? If shows do have a lot of automation that is more likely to lead to click tracks to keep the music in sync with the scenery. Careful what you wish for. Armchair experts. Ha. I’ve professionally worked with click tracks. They have nothing to do with being in sync with scenery - a click track is a series of audio cues used to synchronize sound recordings. If a live show involves pre recorded tracks (the entire percussion, brass and some strings here in Cinderella) the live band will play alongside the recorded click track. I’ve also known in some ALW musicals when the lead role is struggling (fact) or in the case of the title song in Phantom of the Opera (due to Phantom and Christine moving all over the stage before the famous boat scene) that click track recordings are used WITH pre recorded vocals too. The actors then mime their singing on stage! |
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Post by westended on Jul 26, 2021 11:15:41 GMT
Automation doesn't make a good scenic design and also lack of automation doesn't make a bad scenic design. I suspect automation would be very hard anyway in that theatre/set because of the revolve. Does it actually use click tracks or are the armchair experts here confusing click tracks with using keyboard synthesisers? If shows do have a lot of automation that is more likely to lead to click tracks to keep the music in sync with the scenery. Careful what you wish for. Armchair experts. Ha. I’ve professionally worked with click tracks. They have nothing to do with being in sync with scenery - a click track is a series of audio cues used to synchronize sound recordings. If a live show involves pre recorded tracks (the entire percussion, brass and some strings here in Cinderella) the live band will play alongside the recorded click track. I’ve also known in some ALW musicals when the lead role is struggling (fact) or in the case of the title song in Phantom of the Opera (due to Phantom and Christine moving all over the stage before the famous boat scene) that click track recordings are used WITH pre recorded vocals too. The actors then mime their singing on stage! Click Tracks and Scenery/Lighting sometimes do work in conjunction with each other actually! For example, many lighting cues in ‘Six’ are automated and therefore are triggered by certain beats of the click track that the MD has, as well the programmed ‘pop’ sounds used in the show too. This means night after night a lighting cue always lines up with the right beat of the score, and would never be slightly delayed by human error. I suspect many lighting moments in ALW’s Cinderella are also pre-programmed to be triggered on the right beat of the click track. As the MD doesn’t have any say in the tempi of the songs each night (as every song has pre-recorded band parts), I’m sure being automatically triggered saves the DSM a lot of work! |
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Post by Roxie on Jul 26, 2021 12:20:24 GMT
Does anyone know what the runtime of this is please? I'm coming down on Aug 28th to see Linzi in Joseph (again!) and I was hoping to come on the fri 27th and see it then, but I can't get the afternoon off as its bank hol weekend and everyone beat me to it! Would this be doable for the matinee and would i have time to change and eat and get to the palladium for joseph in the evening?
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Post by Mark on Jul 26, 2021 13:22:29 GMT
Does anyone know what the runtime of this is please? I'm coming down on Aug 28th to see Linzi in Joseph (again!) and I was hoping to come on the fri 27th and see it then, but I can't get the afternoon off as its bank hol weekend and everyone beat me to it! Would this be doable for the matinee and would i have time to change and eat and get to the palladium for joseph in the evening? Around 2 hrs 40, so yes plenty time to have a bite to eat and I guess to change if you’re staying between the two. Maybe a 20 minute walk between the two theatres |
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Post by Seriously on Jul 26, 2021 15:07:25 GMT
Automation doesn't make a good scenic design and also lack of automation doesn't make a bad scenic design. I suspect automation would be very hard anyway in that theatre/set because of the revolve. Does it actually use click tracks or are the armchair experts here confusing click tracks with using keyboard synthesisers? If shows do have a lot of automation that is more likely to lead to click tracks to keep the music in sync with the scenery. Careful what you wish for. Armchair experts. Ha. I’ve professionally worked with click tracks. They have nothing to do with being in sync with scenery - a click track is a series of audio cues used to synchronize sound recordings. If a live show involves pre recorded tracks (the entire percussion, brass and some strings here in Cinderella) the live band will play alongside the recorded click track. I’ve also known in some ALW musicals when the lead role is struggling (fact) or in the case of the title song in Phantom of the Opera (due to Phantom and Christine moving all over the stage before the famous boat scene) that click track recordings are used WITH pre recorded vocals too. The actors then mime their singing on stage! A lot of shows will use QLab to sync up various departments. Click tracks can be anything from just a tempo click, to tempo with instruments etc, all the way up to cueing lights, scenery and sound cues. |
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Post by properjob on Jul 26, 2021 16:19:29 GMT
Now that musicalmarge has been put back in their armchair I go back to my question. Are prerecorded tracks being used rather than just lots of synthesisers? I would have thought the musicians union would have kicked off in a massive way about pre recorded music for a major new West End show. |
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Post by Dr Tom on Jul 26, 2021 16:39:29 GMT
My rebooking came through. Same seat as first time (extreme end of front row) but not first choice of date, but at least they’re honouring the discounted prices. Looking forward to seeing what changes they’ve made.
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Post by christya on Jul 26, 2021 17:06:33 GMT
Is anyone else still waiting to hear about their rebooking? I was supposed to be in on the 21st which of course didn't happen, and have only had the cancellation email so far.
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Post by newyorkcityboy on Jul 26, 2021 17:39:20 GMT
Automation doesn't make a good scenic design and also lack of automation doesn't make a bad scenic design. I suspect automation would be very hard anyway in that theatre/set because of the revolve. Does it actually use click tracks or are the armchair experts here confusing click tracks with using keyboard synthesisers? If shows do have a lot of automation that is more likely to lead to click tracks to keep the music in sync with the scenery. Careful what you wish for. Armchair experts. Ha. I’ve professionally worked with click tracks. They have nothing to do with being in sync with scenery - a click track is a series of audio cues used to synchronize sound recordings. If a live show involves pre recorded tracks (the entire percussion, brass and some strings here in Cinderella) the live band will play alongside the recorded click track. I’ve also known in some ALW musicals when the lead role is struggling (fact) or in the case of the title song in Phantom of the Opera (due to Phantom and Christine moving all over the stage before the famous boat scene) that click track recordings are used WITH pre recorded vocals too. The actors then mime their singing on stage! From the front row for Bombay Dreams it was obvious and extremely jarring that the male lead was lip-syncing (very unconvincingly) to one of his solos. The Phantom miming is logistical but there seemed to be no reason for this and is something you don’t expect in live theatre… |
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