Operation Mincemeat - New Diorama/SWP/Riverside/Fortune

[Jon]

Jun 26, 2023 16:37:31 GMT Being Alive said:

Jun 26, 2023 16:34:46 GMT Jon said:

People on here do realise theatre is a business that needs to make money?

Of course, but take a look at the theatre landscape, and come back to me with another show that's doing what they're doing...

This is not me having a go at you, I'm just unbelievably frustrated at how hard they're making it to support this show. 
It all comes back to the fact that their lead producer is not used to producing musicals, and is used to stand up where the blanket pricing works.

I didn't say I agreed with it and indeed I think having the different levels at different prices would be better but people are getting a bit OTT in their anger over some of the loyalty schemes. The photo ID thing isn't even that big a deal even the idea that the lowest price of £39.50 on Mondays is too much is a bit silly because the show is a lot different now in terms of scale.

[David J]

Again I'd say if you have seen 39 Steps, any of La Navete Bete's recent shows like Three Musketeers or Treasure Island, or any small-scale touring production with a cast of 4-6 multi-rolling characters, singing and telling a story or subject matter with added humour, then this isn't anything new. No matter how much scale they've added to the show

I agree it's funny and has some highlights including that love letter song and the cross wired scene. And the cast gives their all, just like any cast of this type of show. But I still find that nerd stereotype they use to be terribly dated.

All I can say is to anyone who is trying to get a lottery ticket is keep trying. Or wait for the show to go on tour. Because I'm glad I didn't even pay £40 for this

[alece10]

Finally got to see it this afternoon. Not much to add to what's already been said. Absolutely loved it. Very funny and clever with some great songs. Loved all the different music styles. Think I saw all the main cast who were brilliant.
Full Standing ovation at the end which you don't often see at a matinee.

[Matt]

Jun 27, 2023 19:51:04 GMT alece10 said:

Finally got to see it this afternoon. Not much to add to what's already been said. Absolutely loved it. Very funny and clever with some great songs. Loved all the different music styles. Think I saw all the main cast who were brilliant.
Full Standing ovation at the end which you don't often see at a matinee.

I think you had Holly on instead of Tash as Montagu

[alece10]

Jun 27, 2023 22:29:52 GMT Matt said:

Jun 27, 2023 19:51:04 GMT alece10 said:

Finally got to see it this afternoon. Not much to add to what's already been said. Absolutely loved it. Very funny and clever with some great songs. Loved all the different music styles. Think I saw all the main cast who were brilliant.
Full Standing ovation at the end which you don't often see at a matinee.

I think you had Holly on instead of Tash as Montagu

Thanks. Must say their bio pics are not brilliant so hard to tell.

[BVM]

Everyone does know it's an ATG theatre right?

"ATG hikes prices for successful show" is the least surprising thing ever..... (I know, I know, it doesn't make it right).

The producer of Shirley Valentine made a massive deal of no premium seats and top price 70 quid ish I think. Only to find ATG then did their own thing and whacked the prices up anyway. Had a brief interaction with him on Twiddler about it. His heart was deffo in right place, so what a joke.

So yeah, though I know nothing about the decisions here, the past has taught me it's a safer bet directing anger to ATG than the Mincemeat producers FWIW.


Edit - playing devil's advocate it does work both ways as ATG dynamically price down quite aggressively for low demand shows. Their dynamic range is more than LWT and DMT. Still, I do find them the most profit obsessed with the worst customer service...

[daniel]

I feel like people have said it multiple times on numerous threads but I’ll say it again: pricing strategy is controlled by the producer not the theatre. Mincemeat’s pricing is absurd, but it’s down to Avalon, not ATG.

Every theatre has a small number of seats (usually between 8-12 per show) which are owned by the venue, and they keep all of the revenue from these. These are the ones that ATG tend to add their packages onto, and these were the ones for Shirley Valentine which were priced at a level against the wishes of the producer.

Aside from that small number of seats, the lion’s share of Box Office revenue goes to the producer, and they are the ones who make the call on pricing. I know we all love to hate ATG but they’re not responsible for this, the responsibility lies entirely at Avalon’s door.

[Jon]

Jun 28, 2023 11:05:00 GMT daniel said:

I feel like people have said it multiple times on numerous threads but I’ll say it again: pricing strategy is controlled by the producer not the theatre. Mincemeat’s pricing is absurd, but it’s down to Avalon, not ATG.

Every theatre has a small number of seats (usually between 8-12 per show) which are owned by the venue, and they keep all of the revenue from these. These are the ones that ATG tend to add their packages onto, and these were the ones for Shirley Valentine which were priced at a level against the wishes of the producer.

Aside from that small number of seats, the lion’s share of Box Office revenue goes to the producer, and they are the ones who make the call on pricing. I know we all love to hate ATG but they’re not responsible for this, the responsibility lies entirely at Avalon’s door.

I assume Avalon didn't allow package seats for OM as there are none. 

I do find it odd that people complain that ATG is profit obsessed. 

[Being Alive]

I made the point some pages back that this is all to do with Avalon, and not ATG

[BVM]

Fair points, thanks - as I said I don't know the details of this show's producers.
But it is coincidental then, as it's all totally in line with my experience of shows in ATG venues.

Also producers and venues do by definition work together - as a condition of the extension, ATG could easily have asked them not to put the prices up - I also don't believe for a second they aren't getting a cut of the higher prices.

[Rory]

ATG *is* profit obsessed. The shows in their West End venues - for example, Cock, A Streetcar Named Desire, Shirley Valentine, A Little Life, Cabaret - are hands down the most expensive shows with dynamic pricing ramped up to massively exorbitant prices. Sure, it's the producers to a degree but ATG bear a large responsibility for this.

[Being Alive]

They would on premium seats, which we have evidence for, but I'm almost certain that ATG are not the party who have decided on the 'one size fits all' blanket policy of the pricing.

[yokollama]

The price hike is another punch to the gut, for sure, but is not the main source of ire here. From a paying theatregoer's pov, the blanket pricing strategy is absolutely bonkers - even more so for those who can only afford the time to visit over the weekend.

The cherry on the cake is the loyalty scheme, which is almost a roundabout way of telling us to f*** off if we dare contemplate saving a penny.

[Jon]

Jun 28, 2023 14:09:39 GMT Rory said:

ATG *is* profit obsessed. The shows in their West End venues - for example, Cock, A Streetcar Named Desire, Shirley Valentine, A Little Life, Cabaret - are hands down the most expensive shows with dynamic pricing ramped up to massively exorbitant prices. Sure, it's the producers to a degree but ATG bear a large responsibility for this.

I’ll give you Streetcar and Cabaret as they were produced by ATG but all the others were produced by the likes of Wessex Grove, David Pugh and Harper Elliott and as been mentioned ATG didn’t set the pricing for those shows.

I’ll be piled on for saying this but this is commercial theatre where the objective is to break even and hopefully make money and these venues were hit financially because of the pandemic, I don’t blame them trying to make more money. I don’t agree with charging huge amounts for a show but I understand why they charge so much.

[bobbievanhusen]

@bvm The producer did make a big deal about his top prices for Shirley Valentine, but then he only had to pay 1 cast member and crew. lets see him produce Les Mis and charge £70 top price.

For all the complaining on here, what pepple need to realise is that Mincemeat doesnt need the loose change you want to pay for a ticket,its doing quite well enough with pricing as it is. why would you reduce prices??

[max]

Jun 29, 2023 3:34:19 GMT bobbievanhusen said:

@bvm The producer did make a big deal about his top prices for Shirley Valentine, but then he only had to pay 1 cast member and crew. lets see him produce Les Mis and charge £70 top price.

For all the complaining on here, what pepple need to realise is that Mincemeat doesnt need the loose change you want to pay for a ticket,its doing quite well enough with pricing as it is. why would you reduce prices??

I'm not complaining about prices.  They're a commercial show, of course they can do what they like.  What I object to is their pretence of largesse, and of being grateful mates with their audience/supporters.  The Loyalty and Family Tix arrangements are so hobbled by conditions as to be unusable by many/most.  'Hey we're cute' 'Hey we're mates'  - that's what I'm not buying (as well a ticket).

[BurlyBeaR]

First we had Hamilton and their bonkers rules about ID and only the person whose name was on the booking could enter the theatre. Then we had Cabaret putting stickers on people’s expensive private property. Now we have this lot wanting people to prove where they live and who they live with to get a tenner off.
Two words: Get. Stuffed.

[BVM]

Jun 29, 2023 3:34:19 GMT bobbievanhusen said:

@bvm The producer did make a big deal about his top prices for Shirley Valentine, but then he only had to pay 1 cast member and crew. lets see him produce Les Mis and charge £70 top price.

For all the complaining on here, what pepple need to realise is that Mincemeat doesnt need the loose change you want to pay for a ticket,its doing quite well enough with pricing as it is. why would you reduce prices??

Great point. He probs made a bigger profit with those prices and the Shirley running costs than CM does with higher prices but Les Mis running costs!

[Matt]

Jun 29, 2023 3:34:19 GMT bobbievanhusen said:

For all the complaining on here, what pepple need to realise is that Mincemeat doesnt need the loose change you want to pay for a ticket,its doing quite well enough with pricing as it is. why would you reduce prices??

Just because it’s selling doesn’t mean it’s doing well financially.

[fiyerorocher]

Jun 29, 2023 3:34:19 GMT bobbievanhusen said:

@bvm The producer did make a big deal about his top prices for Shirley Valentine, but then he only had to pay 1 cast member and crew. lets see him produce Les Mis and charge £70 top price.

For all the complaining on here, what pepple need to realise is that Mincemeat doesnt need the loose change you want to pay for a ticket,its doing quite well enough with pricing as it is. why would you reduce prices??

because it's unethical to make your prices so high as to be accessible to so many people, in light of the fact that it doesn't have to be that way at all as no other show adopts the same pricing strategy. You can see Hamilton on a Saturday night for £20 and, after the price increases, Operation Mincemeat will cost you £90 for the equivalent show (despite having a much smaller cast and lower running costs)... That just seems wrong. Besides, it's getting them all kinds of bad press amongst theatre goers. The word of mouth news on this show used to be 'it's excellent', now it's 'it's just too expensive'. And not to mention the fact that it isn't selling all that well. Mondays are selling well for the whole run, though, when tickets are cheapest...

So that is why I'd reduce prices. They can up the higher prices all the like if people are stupid enough to pay them, but not having lower ticket prices is a bad look.

[NorthernAlien]

You know, this is a moment when I wish the West End did what Broadway does, i.e. publishing the figures weekly - because I would love to know how this pricing strategy is working for them. As it is, we have no idea, and we never will, and there's just so many moving parts in a show in the West End, most especially what deal is done between ATG and Avalon - maybe it's a vastly different deal from most other productions? Who knows? All we have is speculation, really.

I do think, regardless of how I personally feel about £90 for a seat in the back row of the Upper Circle on a Saturday, that's it's a very different way to price theatre/a musical, and that merits study.

[anthony40]

I saw this show during its run at the Southwalk Playhouse and as cleverly performed as it was, it was a heck of a lot cheaper then what that it is right now.

[fiyerorocher]

Jun 29, 2023 10:00:01 GMT anthony40 said:

I saw this show during its run at the Southwalk Playhouse and as cleverly performed as it was, it was a heck of a lot cheaper then what that it is right now.

I saw it multiple times during earlier runs but have now essentially been priced out unless I can win the ticket lottery, which just feels like a damn shame. I used to take so many friends to see it because people would unanimously love it - now I just can't recommend it to anyone at the current prices.

[Rory]

Avalon are shooting themselves in the foot. What a nonsensical pricing policy!

[jennifer]

Jun 29, 2023 10:08:14 GMT fiyerorocher said:

Jun 29, 2023 10:00:01 GMT anthony40 said:

I saw this show during its run at the Southwalk Playhouse and as cleverly performed as it was, it was a heck of a lot cheaper then what that it is right now.

I saw it multiple times during earlier runs but have now essentially been priced out unless I can win the ticket lottery, which just feels like a damn shame. I used to take so many friends to see it because people would unanimously love it - now I just can't recommend it to anyone at the current prices.

I'm in exactly the same position! Now when I recommend it to people I warn them not to pay full price.

They must be losing a lot of sales by pricing the tickets that way, and also a lot of goodwill. While people are willing to give a lot of leeway to a £20 fringe show (and in that category Operation Mincemeat always stood out as exceptionally good), when the entire theatre has had to pay £90 to see the show of course the audience are going to have much higher expectations.

I still think the show it holds its own in the West End, but not everyone will in those circumstances.