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Post by lynette on Apr 29, 2019 12:53:03 GMT
I can’t find a thread on this so here goes.
A real puzzle this one. It would seem obvious these days that swapping the roles would be interesting and challenging and those of us who saw the Measure for Measure at the Donmar which did this, would I think, agree that it was just that. But here I was less convinced. Here is the iconic play by our Bard and all these years we have railed against it and hated it and yet gone to see it and to see how they do it. At last someone comes along and makes it contemporary and for me, it just didn’t work. Some terrific acting all round, as you expect. An Elizabethan setting and costume design which you don’t get to see very often these days but again, fun though it was seeing the women move in the dresses as if on rollers ( remember Rylance when he did that at the Globe in Twelfth Night) again, this didn’t work for me.
Katherine- they keep the name for him despite making the other names change gender - is like a damaged teenager who is silent and still except for moments of outraged attempted violence. Petruchio is full of energy and sex appeal and fancies him rotten. It is as if she takes him to boot camp for a week. Emotional engagement I did not see. And funnily enough although here the women are in charge of their situations, it still seemed that they were not equal to men. They were still seeking marriage, still needing money, still having to resort to deception to get their way. Perhaps the most successful switch for me is that of the old gals, Hortensia, Katherine's mother, out for best dowry for Bianco ( who here is a spoilt petulant brat I can’t imagine anyone wanting to marry but there you are, modern times) and Vincentia who is a real dragon of a mum going to check on her daughter.
It was irritating that although they had done this switch they still kept in lines that made nonsense of it in the Elizabethan context. A bit of cutting here and there might have made it consistent. Made me think though about the play again. It is like those classical comedies with wily servants and foolish parents and silly slapstick tricks. That Shakespeare made anything more of it is something remarkable. He was perhaps concerned with 'order' as he is in other plays. Probably good that he wrote a few other plays too. 🤪
I would love to hear what others make of this. Excuse me if you already have and direct me to the thread. Ta.
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Post by learfan on Apr 29, 2019 15:51:57 GMT
Hmmm, interesting Lynette, im going on 18 May, actually looking forward to it.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 29, 2019 16:38:00 GMT
With lynette on this one. The final monologue made no sense as the women despite being in a matriarchy continued to come over as ‘bodies soft and weak and smooth unapt to toil and trouble in the world’ Not sure how the Cardiff production was set but the women in the Production were still primarily female characters and difficult to believe they would toil in the same way as the men were understood to do in Shakespeare’s time as per Kate’s monologue. A play that continues to perplex in only a way Shakespeare can - A mirror to the men in the audience that this is not a way to treat women (modern positive skin?) - His true opinion on the status of women (in conflict with some of his later female characters?) A play I detest and find the treatment of Kate abhorrent, my appreciation of Shakespeare means I continue my quest for a production that appeases my concerns but maybe this play was of ‘of an age' rather than ‘for all time' |
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Post by kathryn on Nov 9, 2019 19:44:43 GMT
Switching the genders doesn’t stop this play being deeply disturbing, does it.
It made me very uncomfortable. Not sure if that was the intended effect ...
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Post by Jan on Nov 9, 2019 19:51:36 GMT
Switching the genders doesn’t stop this play being deeply disturbing, does it. It made me very uncomfortable. Not sure if that was the intended effect ... Tough play to direct. Greg Doran’s was very good, his starting point was that both the principals were emotionally damaged to an equal extent, Petruchio by his father’s death which has happened just before the action, he is still grieving. |
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Post by kathryn on Nov 9, 2019 22:51:10 GMT
When I read the play way back in the day at uni I was struck by the fact that Petruchio puts himself through the same disreputable appearance, fasting, sleep deprivation and discomfort as Kate - though of course he is in control the whole time. That seemed to me the only possible levelling factor - but the submission of Kate is so awful, it is hard to see how it can be played without being disturbing.
I suppose if Petruchio is actually suffering from a Hamlet-like grief-madness - and the audience is not quite sure if he is actually in control or not, then maybe the dynamic could be a bit more equal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 16:55:48 GMT
Reversing the genders of play is an interesting thing but it has to be done in moderation. The All Male of Female Shakespeare companies in recent years were an interesting idea as the plays were originally played by all male companies and flipping them gives them a nice symmetry.
I wonder if some actors have now actually played the role reversal part as opposed to the part that they would have normally played opposite to it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 13:48:39 GMT
Found this very disappointing. The gender swapping worked OK although it's still all very unpleasant. Far too many scenes where most of the characters stood motionless in a line with fixed expressions on their faces for long periods, while one or two characters stood around shouting in the general direction of the audience.
Much preferred the previous RSC Shrew I saw which was the Lucy Bailey one where the set was giant bed.
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Post by peggs on Dec 2, 2019 19:52:58 GMT
Somehow got lost coming from Moorgate underground, cue half an hour wandering around swearing at google maps on my phone and failing to find the barbican on those big street map things. In end hopefully followed a trail of people in case they were going there.
Lovely stompy lady sitting behind eating something very loud and crunchy.
Spent beginning trying to mentally cross reference roles against the only previous production i'd seen to work out who everyone was.
I'm not sure this worked, the problem nature of it is still a problem with genders the other way round and the word panto did float across my mind at times at some of the pulling of faces (I may have forgotten this is supposedly a comedy). Still I was so relieved to have got there and had gone with low expectations from what i'd heard hear and had no great production to compare it to in my head so I did okay. If nothing else the sight of Claire Price striding across the stage appearing to relish all those lines was quite appealing, I was always rather waiting for her to come back on whenever she went off. I like the music too.
Overheard someone talking about their journey back and hopefully followed them back to Moorgate which was something of a relief.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 3, 2019 7:18:18 GMT
Since I moved to London in 2002 I have noticed that the yellow line around the Barbican estate has needed repainting...
But finding your way around is more difficult due to all the ongoing works at Moorgate.
You did well to find it shame the reward the end was not very good.
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Post by lynette on Dec 3, 2019 11:33:54 GMT
It was noted at the time the Barbican was finished that we seem to be ashamed of our large buildings these days and give them small entrances, often underground. But you wouldn’t get lost finding the entrance to St Paul’s Cathedral.
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Post by peggs on Dec 3, 2019 17:57:53 GMT
If you come out of the wrong exit at Moorgate, it's difficult. Get it right - the one next to the back entrance of Boots, and you can cut through the piazza opposite and you are there in no time. Think I had options of east or west exits, clearly picked wrong one, of course whether I remember which one next time I go is another matter, I think I chose left option. |
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Post by learfan on Dec 3, 2019 18:05:09 GMT
If you come out of the wrong exit at Moorgate, it's difficult. Get it right - the one next to the back entrance of Boots, and you can cut through the piazza opposite and you are there in no time. Think I had options of east or west exits, clearly picked wrong one, of course whether I remember which one next time I go is another matter, I think I chose left option. Never used Moorgate to get there when i lived in London. Always either Barbican or St Paul's. |
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Post by peggs on Dec 3, 2019 20:28:22 GMT
Think I had options of east or west exits, clearly picked wrong one, of course whether I remember which one next time I go is another matter, I think I chose left option. Never used Moorgate to get there when i lived in London. Always either Barbican or St Paul's. Moorgate is easiest for me to get to hence why I went there, obviously I rather offset that. |
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Post by dlevi on Dec 4, 2019 11:05:18 GMT
Meanwhile, inside the theatre - assuming one can find it and not be the victim of yet another misleading sign once inside the Barbican ( this one at the Silk Street entrance which has an arrow pointing INTO the gift shop which is a dead end - ( the Barbican staff member at the entrance denied that the sign was misleading but when I was leaving the theatre it had been placed in a more appropriate position) - where was I? Oh yes, once inside the theatre I found the production to be pretty much a disaster from start to finish. The gender swapping would've been fine if it was consistent, but it wasn't . Why were some names feminized and not others? What was Katherine still Katherine when he was now a man? Putting that aside, the staging was as stagnant as I'm guessing a provincial tour of Donald Wolfit's in the 1950's. The neutral design was dull and the music as generic a Shakespeare score as I have ever heard. The RSC is in trouble artistically, competent actors not great ones, and uninspired productions. The fact that the theatre was perhaps one third full should make the management realize that something needs to change.
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Post by Jan on Dec 4, 2019 14:59:17 GMT
Meanwhile, inside the theatre - assuming one can find it and not be the victim of yet another misleading sign once inside the Barbican ( this one at the Silk Street entrance which has an arrow pointing INTO the gift shop which is a dead end - ( the Barbican staff member at the entrance denied that the sign was misleading but when I was leaving the theatre it had been placed in a more appropriate position) - where was I? Oh yes, once inside the theatre I found the production to be pretty much a disaster from start to finish. The gender swapping would've been fine if it was consistent, but it wasn't . Why were some names feminized and not others? What was Katherine still Katherine when he was now a man? Putting that aside, the staging was as stagnant as I'm guessing a provincial tour of Donald Wolfit's in the 1950's. The neutral design was dull and the music as generic a Shakespeare score as I have ever heard. The RSC is in trouble artistically, competent actors not great ones, and uninspired productions. The fact that the theatre was perhaps one third full should make the management realize that something needs to change. One game they play at the Barbican is to continually move the theatre box office - currently it is inside the gift shop so maybe that partly explains the misleading signage, I can remember at least 5 or 6 other locations for it, 3 of them on completely different levels to where it is now. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 4, 2019 15:25:18 GMT
At least the BO is now wheelchair accessible. Shame it is in a cramped space though.
The revamp of the Barbican public spaces 15 ish years ago did improve things a bit but it still has a long way to go.
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Post by dlevi on Dec 4, 2019 18:07:48 GMT
Meanwhile, inside the theatre - assuming one can find it and not be the victim of yet another misleading sign once inside the Barbican ( this one at the Silk Street entrance which has an arrow pointing INTO the gift shop which is a dead end - ( the Barbican staff member at the entrance denied that the sign was misleading but when I was leaving the theatre it had been placed in a more appropriate position) - where was I? Oh yes, once inside the theatre I found the production to be pretty much a disaster from start to finish. The gender swapping would've been fine if it was consistent, but it wasn't . Why were some names feminized and not others? What was Katherine still Katherine when he was now a man? Putting that aside, the staging was as stagnant as I'm guessing a provincial tour of Donald Wolfit's in the 1950's. The neutral design was dull and the music as generic a Shakespeare score as I have ever heard. The RSC is in trouble artistically, competent actors not great ones, and uninspired productions. The fact that the theatre was perhaps one third full should make the management realize that something needs to change. One game they play at the Barbican is to continually move the theatre box office - currently it is inside the gift shop so maybe that partly explains the misleading signage, I can remember at least 5 or 6 other locations for it, 3 of them on completely different levels to where it is now. |
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Post by dlevi on Dec 4, 2019 18:11:28 GMT
The box office for advance sales is deep in the gift shop but to pick up tickets one has to go down two flights and walk to the very end and then wait in a queue and then walk all the way back to the entrance to then enter the theatre. That renovation 15 years ago at a cost of 8 Million pounds did improve things, but the clarifications which have taken place since then have made it all much much worse. If the main entrance is Sil Street then put the box office there and damn the foolish gift shop. Grrrrrr.
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Post by Jan on Dec 4, 2019 18:44:22 GMT
Back in May this year, the "advance" box office was a circular thing one flight down at the theatre stalls entrance. They had a staff member working the line constantly to weed out the "ticket collection" customers and send them to a desk another level down on the opposite side of the building. Didn't know they've now made it even more complicated. What was wrong with the old desks at the Silk Street doors? Oh yes, they took up valuable retail space... because selling tickets isn't the priority of any arts venue with ticketed events... The shop is now on two levels which seems to have prompted the most recent box office change. When the Barbican first opened the theatre advance box office was on a level way above the theatre, I think it's now called Level 3, which was a crazy place to have it. |
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Post by peggs on Dec 4, 2019 19:00:44 GMT
I didn't realise there a gift shop, have not had to collect tickets and determinedly go where I went before in fear of going elsewhere and getting lost.
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Post by lynette on Dec 4, 2019 19:19:50 GMT
I haven’t been to the B for yonks, too far, too much nothing to see, too awful the food, grim. When it opened and yes I do remember when it opened, there was a teeny shop. It just went to show how poorly the place was thought out. There was no food, they put little stalls in the foyer, nothing to see, outside space was like a prison ( imagining here..do put me right) and the toilets were, prob still are, down v shallow steps ,hard to walk down in heels or frankly any kind of shoes for normal size feet, and entered from two sides so always a tense movement going for an empty loo before the person on the other side in the other queue. Terrible. The theatre itself is too wide. the studio space, the PIT, absolutely ridiculous if well named, the entrance by the cinema entrance. And to top it all, they couldn’t even make the floor flat. It slopes. Wheelchair friendly? I don’t think so. Who makes the floor slope in a modern building? Who passed that? The flats there are, I’m told, nice and well located for city workers.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Dec 4, 2019 20:01:32 GMT
A rare occasion lynette and I are in disagreement. I love the Barbican and it is one of my favourite London Theatres, outside the RSC season there is always an interesting and rather eclectic range of plays especially the surtitled European imports, of which Medea was in my top five this year and I never get bored of those automatically closing doors. On a tour earlier this year and asking about the difficulty in finding your way around it was explained that the marked walkways naturally take you to the main entrance on the ground floor and the Silk Street entrance which I always use was never meant to be used as a general entrance, did try the route advised and it did make sense but as a creature of habit reverted back to using the tunnel and Silk Street entrance. The flats are also on my if I ever win the lottery list, would be my perfect central London abode (Theatre / Concert Venue / Cinema just down the stairs) even if finding my way home could be a bit of a puzzle. |
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Post by Jan on Dec 5, 2019 7:24:17 GMT
A rare occasion lynette and I are in disagreement. I love the Barbican and it is one of my favourite London Theatres, outside the RSC season there is always an interesting and rather eclectic range of plays especially the surtitled European imports, of which Medea was in my top five this year and I never get bored of those automatically closing doors. On a tour earlier this year and asking about the difficulty in finding your way around it was explained that the marked walkways naturally take you to the main entrance on the ground floor and the Silk Street entrance which I always use was never meant to be used as a general entrance, did try the route advised and it did make sense but as a creature of habit reverted back to using the tunnel and Silk Street entrance. The flats are also on my if I ever win the lottery list, would be my perfect central London abode (Theatre / Concert Venue / Cinema just down the stairs) even if finding my way home could be a bit of a puzzle. Yes I'm with you on that, Lynette has always had a blind spot about the delights of the place. The RSC designed the stage and had it built to their exact specifications, the width was to match the old RST stage, which means it's now unsuitable for RSC transfers but that's their own fault. I looked round one of the flats there once as I thought, like you, it would be a good place to live but what kills you there is not so much the up-front cost but the annual service charge, all those lifts and other facilities to be maintained come at a high price. |
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Post by Jan on Dec 5, 2019 13:12:11 GMT
The shop is now on two levels which seems to have prompted the most recent box office change Would rather live in the West End than out there, far more shows to hand. When Peter Hall was running the NT he lived in a penthouse flat at the top of one of the tower blocks in the Barbican, the NT associate directors at the time (Harold Pinter etc.) used to have weekly meetings there. The theatre itself was designed long enough ago that Hall and John Bury then at the RSC were involved. The only other notable resident I know about is Arthur Scargill who I used to see jogging around the walkways occasionally. |
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