Cash

[basdfg]

Jun 27, 2020 20:13:14 GMT Phantom of London said:

Jun 27, 2020 15:11:50 GMT Someone in a tree said:

In Feb of this year I was mugged and my cards took a week to come. Thankfully I borrowed spare credit cards from a neighbour and my partner - but not everyone can do that. Yet I am in favour of generally going cashless. It's cleaner and safer.

Sorry to hear you were mugged, hope you are alright and must have been a horrible experience for you.

Jun 27, 2020 19:11:25 GMT dontdreamit said:

I booked an appointment for my two kids to get their haircut the week that it all opens. I normally pay cash and asked what they’d like- cash or card- and they still prefer cash.

No doubt want cash for one reason only and that is to pay less tax, on the little tax they pay anyway.

Jun 27, 2020 19:46:21 GMT joem said:

I'm not in favour of cashless although I don't use it that much. It is increasingly difficult to open bank accounts and there is increasing fraud with cards, especially on the net.

Neither am I in favour of any dogmatism which seeks to force others to change their lifestyles to suit someone else. Live and let live.

But you don’t to the best of my knowledge get fraud in shops with card readers. People need to be careful when doing transactions on line, fraud on-line is 100% preventable.

When I go out on my bike, I don’t even bother carrying my wallet now, just carry my phone and use that, less chance of losing phone.

Or because the cost of a card reader would push them into the zone of unprofitabilty.

[sf]

Jun 27, 2020 20:37:00 GMT basdfg said:

Or because the cost of a card reader would push them into the zone of unprofitabilty.

There are plenty of card readers available for small businesses to purchase outright, and there's no need to pay more than about £30. Transaction fees are in the 1%-3% range, but that's not uncompetitive with the cost of arranging the service via a bank.

These are not numbers likely to push any business into unprofitability.

[talkingheads]

Jun 27, 2020 20:49:26 GMT sf said:

Jun 27, 2020 20:37:00 GMT basdfg said:

Or because the cost of a card reader would push them into the zone of unprofitabilty.

There are plenty of card readers available for small businesses to purchase outright, and there's no need to pay more than about £30. Transaction fees are in the 1%-3% range, but that's not uncompetitive with the cost of arranging the service via a bank.

These are not numbers likely to push any business into unprofitability.

Precisely. It sounds cynical but if a business is such that buying a card reader would render it unprofitable then it can't have been very profitable to start with! If anything it should lead to more business. I haven't shopped anywhere that only takes cash recently because I just don't carry it, especially nowadays.

[Phantom of London]

I cannot remember the last time, I have wrote a cheque. Even my window cleaner, he drops me a text to say he has done by windows - I then transfer the money straight in his bank account.

[clair]

There's just one company I pay by cheque - they do have paypal set up but that has a per item charge so it's cheaper to post a cheque. If everything goes to card only it will save me money as I refuse to use a card for buying a cuppa, drink or programme at a theatre etc, I distrust contactless as I know far too many people who have been scammed so small amounts are cash. I'll save money, those places will lose it, simple.

[Deleted]

I think the fears about contactless payments are overstated. In principle it's possible for someone to get a card reader close enough to you to read your card without your permission, but they have to get very close indeed — think about how close you need to put your card to the reader to pay — and it's easy enough to store cards in a RF-blocking wallet anyway. And if someone steals your card: that's why the cards revert to chip and pin after (IIRC) five transactions or £130, and in the case of theft the banks have budgeted for refunding the transactions so it's not your loss.

There are stories of people having their bank accounts emptied from across the room, but those are lies. It turns out that banks know what types of card crime there are and take steps to prevent them.

[basdfg]

If your card gets stolen then days without a card and no where accepting cash would be tough. Remember some people find even phoning up to cancel an account a bit bewildering.

[mortal]

My card got cloned a year or so ago (got money back no problem) but it took nearly 2 weeks to receive a replacement. I always keep a bit of cash hidden away at home for emergencies and would have been stuffed without it

[Phantom of London]

You have Apple Pay on your internet enabled phone now, so the card isn’t a physical thing now. As I touched on earlier when I am out on my bike I don’t take my wallet out, less chance of losing in it, I just pay for everything on my phone.

Every card in your wallet/purse I guess it would be possible to put in you Apple Wallet, from your library card to your ATG card, membership cards and maybe your Nectar Card? So do you really need to carry a bulky wallet/purse now?

[basdfg]

Jun 28, 2020 13:23:00 GMT Phantom of London said:

You have Apple Pay on your internet enabled phone now, so the card isn’t a physical thing now. As I touched on earlier when I am out on my bike I don’t take my wallet out, less chance of losing in it, I just pay for everything on my phone.

Every card in your wallet/purse I guess it would be possible to put in you Apple Wallet, from your library card to your ATG card, membership cards and maybe your Nectar Card? So do you really need to carry a bulky wallet/purse now?

Do you not know how many people dont have a smartphone and therefore that is not an option. I hate getting my phone out in a public place so will not use a pay app until forced to either.

[alece10]

Jun 28, 2020 13:40:35 GMT basdfg said:

Jun 28, 2020 13:23:00 GMT Phantom of London said:

You have Apple Pay on your internet enabled phone now, so the card isn’t a physical thing now. As I touched on earlier when I am out on my bike I don’t take my wallet out, less chance of losing in it, I just pay for everything on my phone.

Every card in your wallet/purse I guess it would be possible to put in you Apple Wallet, from your library card to your ATG card, membership cards and maybe your Nectar Card? So do you really need to carry a bulky wallet/purse now?

Do you not know how many people dont have a smartphone and therefore that is not an option. I hate getting my phone out in a public place so will not use a pay app until forced to either.

I feel the same. After going through the trauma of having my phone stolen on public transport my current phone stays firmly in my pocket when I am out and about. Even if it rings (which it seldom does) I dont take it out of my pocket. So I would not consider having a payment app on my phone. But then I am a bit old school.

[Deleted]

Jun 28, 2020 13:23:00 GMT Phantom of London said:

Every card in your wallet/purse I guess it would be possible to put in you Apple Wallet, from your library card to your ATG card, membership cards and maybe your Nectar Card? So do you really need to carry a bulky wallet/purse now?

Your card can't have a flat battery. Or pick up malware. Or crash at inconvenient moments. Or break when you drop it. It doesn't have any resale value so it's less attractive as a target for theft. If one of your cards gets lost or stolen you don't lose all of them at once. Stealing your card doesn't give someone access to all your social media accounts, personal photographs or anything else. If your card gets stolen it's up to the bank to pay for its replacement; if your phone gets stolen it's up to you.

Bulky wallet? I can carry half a dozen cards and some just-in-case £20 notes in a wallet that's 80g. My phone is 180g. My phone is also 50% longer than my wallet, which means that when it's in my pocket it's visible.

All in all, for me cards are safer, lighter, more convenient and more reliable.

[Phantom of London]

When I am on my bike, I listen to music through my phone, so carry that anyway - so pointless carrying a wallet as well and risk losing my wallet, when I don’t have to.

To access my phone is done by fingerprint, to get to my debit card is done again via fingerprint, which is a lot more secure than a open wallet, where if someone steals your wallet, you also lose everything, they can go on and use you contactless card to make purchases, they cannot with your phone.. I never Have had my phone crash, as apple software is very stable. Your phone cannot be skimmed like a physical debit card.

It is up to you to get good protective casing for your phone, so it doesn’t break. When you drop it. Battery are a lot more efficient and last longer these days, but then again there are a lot more places now where you can charge your devices.

As you say your phone is heavier than your wallet, But then you then discounted if your put change in your wallet, that would make it heavier. But then again I don’t know who goes round weighing their phone and wallet. But never less you are going to carry your phone around with you anyway, so wallet is a additional extra weigh that you don’t have to carry. Then going back to the first point you don’t have to carry money, which is dirty, as you don’t know how clean the people were that handled your money.

[Deleted]

Jun 28, 2020 17:15:55 GMT Phantom of London said:

As you say your phone is heavier than your wallet, But then you then discounted if your put change in your wallet, that would make it heavier. But then again I don’t know who goes round weighing their phone and wallet. But never less you are going to carry your phone around with you anyway, so wallet is a additional extra weigh that you don’t have to carry. Then going back to the first point you don’t have to carry money, which is dirty, as you don’t know how clean the people were that handled your money.

But I don't use cash. I carry some emergency £20s in case I'm in a situation where I need to pay for something and no electronic payment is available but I don't actually use cash for anything. So the point about coins is meaningless. And I don't carry my phone everywhere because I don't feel the need to be in touch with everyone at all times.

I'm not sure what your point about weighing things is. I weighed my phone and wallet today because actual data is always better than vague opinions. But the fact is that my wallet is light enough that I don't notice the weight at all, while my phone is heavy and bulky enough that I'm constantly aware of it when I have it with me.

If using your phone for payments work for you, great. But your original claim was that wallets are bulky compared with phones and that's not remotely true for people who use cards for payment.

[lynette]

I use a - big voice now and very deep - HANDBAAAAAG!

[clair]

I, and many of my friends, don't have a smartphone - I have a cheap pay as you go which is all I need, I'm not so important that I have to be contactable 24/7 and neither do I feel that I need to be looking at a screen or plugged in at all times. As for the idiots who use their phones to pay on the bus - don't get me started. They simply hold the rest of us up - I timed the waiting on a bus journey to work once, with the amount of time wasted as people tried to get their phones to work, get signal etc that was 10 minutes that could have been spent having a cuppa at work before starting!

[sf]

Jun 28, 2020 19:27:35 GMT clair said:

As for the idiots who use their phones to pay on the bus - don't get me started. They simply hold the rest of us up - I timed the waiting on a bus journey to work once, with the amount of time wasted as people tried to get their phones to work, get signal etc that was 10 minutes that could have been spent having a cuppa at work before starting!

Depends how they're paying. Using downloadable tickets, yes, can be very slow if people don't get their act together before they board the vehicle. Paying via a contactless payment app like Apple Pay is no slower than paying via a contactless card or touching in with an Oyster card.

[Deleted]

I just make sure my assistants have cash. Why should I bother worrying about all this?

{sarcasm}

[Jon]

Jun 28, 2020 19:47:48 GMT sf said:

Jun 28, 2020 19:27:35 GMT clair said:

As for the idiots who use their phones to pay on the bus - don't get me started. They simply hold the rest of us up - I timed the waiting on a bus journey to work once, with the amount of time wasted as people tried to get their phones to work, get signal etc that was 10 minutes that could have been spent having a cuppa at work before starting!

Depends how they're paying. Using downloadable tickets, yes, can be very slow if people don't get their act together before they board the vehicle. Paying via a contactless payment app like Apple Pay is no slower than paying via a contactless card or touching in with an Oyster card.

Apple Pay has an Express Transit which activates when you put it on an Oyster pad. Just as fast as a debit/credit card or Oyster Card.

I use e-tickets with Apple Wallet for the odd train journey and honestly it’s great not having to worry about paper tickets

[NeilVHughes]

With Express Transit on iPhone or Watch set up all you have to do is hold it nearby the same way you would with a card and that’s it.

Feels strange when using the Watch as it almost feels magical just placing your wrist next to the yellow pad and the gates open. 

Very rarely if ever use cash and have been known to go elsewhere if they do not accept contactless as I have become quite attached to the £20 note I have had for months and abhor loose change in my pockets.

[marob]

I use my card for pretty much everything since contactless became more common. I've never had a wallet so it makes it easier than having random bits of change.

I'd imagine one benefit of going cashless would be that businesses would not be able to under report their earnings to the tax office.

[Jon]

I don't really get the snootiness around using your phone or smart watch to pay for public transport. It's just another payment method.

[Deleted]

Jun 28, 2020 20:44:23 GMT Jon said:

I don't really get the snootiness around using your phone or smart watch to pay for public transport. It's just another payment method.

It's more that it seems to fail more often, creating a queue. Or the even more annoying folk who take a phone call right up until they are standing in front of the card reader and then have to pause the call, find their card, tap in and move before anyone else can get on. Same thing happens in shop queues.

Plus, I care about my phone or my cards being lost or stolen, I don't care if my Oyster card goes as it never has much on it and will be capped at the daily cap by the time I cancel it. That is why my Oyster card is the only thing I keep reasonably accessible in my jacket pocket or an outer pocket of my bag!

[Phantom of London]

I am not advocating that we should use phones and I am merely curious whether everything in your wallet/purse can be put on you phone in the apple wallet? I still have a debit/credit card, as pointed out I don’t carry my wallet when I go for a ride. But when out I do.

But still worthy of making a great point that your phone payment is more secure than a plastic debit/credit card.

However I don’t feel the same with cash, which is very dirty and dangerous especially in these difficult dark days of Covid.

[maggiem]

In the last few months, I've used my credit/debit card (mainly debit) for online grocery orders, but for the few times that I've needed to go into town, I've had to have cash for bus fares as not all of the buses on my route have contactless payment!