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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 29, 2017 13:53:28 GMT
I was thinking gherkins, to be honest.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 14:12:02 GMT
I don't agree with this notion of musicals not having a good and engaging plot. I agree that if you want a plot alone, a play is obviously better, but there are many musicals with strong, engaging plots, characters and situations.
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Post by Dawnstar on Oct 29, 2017 18:31:31 GMT
Not all musical theatre has to be a highbrow story, not all musical theatre has to give you an important lesson or message to take away, not all musical theatre has to have a good plot (let's face it, half of musicals don't really). A good plot is essential to a play because that is necessarily the major part of the production, whereas a musical also has singing, and often dancing, so the focus is dissipated. I don't need a musical to make me think deeply, that's not why I go to see them. I completely agree with these points. I go to the theatre mostly for escapism myself. However what I do need from a show is that it makes me care about the characters, and 42nd Street doesn't manage to do that for me. It doesn't help that there's no indication at the end as to whether Peggy will go for Billy or Julian. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 19:35:45 GMT
I don't agree with this notion of musicals not having a good and engaging plot. I agree that if you want a plot alone, a play is obviously better, but there are many musicals with strong, engaging plots, characters and situations. I didn't say all musicals lack a decent plot, I said some of them do, which is clearly true for many jukebox musicals at least. |
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Post by Jon on Oct 29, 2017 19:43:30 GMT
42nd Street was Merrick's last hurrah as a producer. He threw everything at it to ensure it was going to be a hit and I suppose in the 1980s, people knew the songs of Dubin and Warren and went to see the show because it had those songs and having the huge cast, tap dancing and glitzy costumes were big sellers as well, it's no different to Mamma Mia! today.
The plot is a bit thin in 42nd Street but it's never been sold on the plot and it works for the show.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 21:21:04 GMT
42nd Street was Merrick's last hurrah as a producer. He threw everything at it to ensure it was going to be a hit and I suppose in the 1980s, people knew the songs of Dubin and Warren and went to see the show because it had those songs and having the huge cast, tap dancing and glitzy costumes were big sellers as well, it's no different to Mamma Mia! today. The plot is a bit thin in 42nd Street but it's never been sold on the plot and it works for the show. It’s quite a lot better Than Mamma Mia! Today or any other day |
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Post by andrew on Oct 29, 2017 22:13:50 GMT
It’s quite a lot better Than Mamma Mia! Today or any other day Yeah I mean it's bad but it's not Mamma Mia bad.I really enjoyed everyones perspectives on what they want from a musical. I really wish the stuff @cardinalpirelli talked about were evident in this production. I feel much better now, thank you for everyones support through this difficult time. I'm going to be staying away from all golden colours for a few weeks as part of my rehab. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 22:18:09 GMT
i disagree, i think mamma mia has more plot than 42nd Street. Even by the standard of most musicals from the golden age of Hollywood and musical comedies in general 42nd Street is pretty thin, and weirdly it doesnt need to be. They could easily have made slightly more will she/wont she succeed, put a few more hurdles in the way but theres nothing.
Its an amazing spectacle but as has been mentioned, away from the big production numbers its actually a bit of a boring show
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 22:42:33 GMT
It’s quite a lot better Than Mamma Mia! Today or any other day Yeah I mean it's bad but it's not Mamma Mia bad.I really enjoyed everyones perspectives on what they want from a musical. I really wish the stuff @cardinalpirelli talked about were evident in this production. I feel much better now, thank you for everyones support through this difficult time. I'm going to be staying away from all golden colours for a few weeks as part of my rehab. If only The NHS Had production standards Half as good as 42nd Street Things might be a bit different 😂😂😂 |
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Post by zak97 on Oct 30, 2017 14:05:01 GMT
Which are the quiet(ish) days for this. I know there were a few posts about the balcony sometimes being closed - just wondering if there has been any pattern in that (and if it might be worth getting a seat in the balcony and hoping on the off chance for a possible upgrade).
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Post by sf on Oct 30, 2017 14:14:19 GMT
I can’t think of a single musical which has a proper “plot” Think harder. |
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Post by daniel on Oct 30, 2017 14:17:45 GMT
Which are the quiet(ish) days for this. I know there were a few posts about the balcony sometimes being closed - just wondering if there has been any pattern in that (and if it might be worth getting a seat in the balcony and hoping on the off chance for a possible upgrade). Generally midweek evenings, from what I gather three levels is the norm. |
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Post by zak97 on Oct 30, 2017 14:31:06 GMT
Which are the quiet(ish) days for this. I know there were a few posts about the balcony sometimes being closed - just wondering if there has been any pattern in that (and if it might be worth getting a seat in the balcony and hoping on the off chance for a possible upgrade). Generally midweek evenings, from what I gather three levels is the norm. Ah, I’ll have a look at the seating plans, possibly Wednesday. Would go tomorrow but with it being Halloween and and 35 minute walk back I’ll avoid the inevitable idiot who wants to scare people. |
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Post by dippy on Oct 31, 2017 14:51:37 GMT
However what I do need from a show is that it makes me care about the characters, and 42nd Street doesn't manage to do that for me. It doesn't help that there's no indication at the end as to whether Peggy will go for Billy or Julian. I don't care about any of the characters either but for some reason in this it doesn't bother me that much. However the end is very odd and like you say having no idea what will happen next doesn't help. When I left the theatre once I was walking behind two people who were having a big discussion about how it should have finished one scene later at the party and their ideas about what would have happened there. I feel like Peggy has more interest in Julian than Billy because of her "grand, grand, grand, if you could come" but I think it's also very strange that he doesn't even congratulate her after the show until everyone else has gone. Oh well, odd ending to a show which tells you "who cares if there's a plot or not" so I guess they don't care about the plot! Random question does anyone who has seen the show lately and also ages ago feel that Stuart is a bit too over the top now? Maybe I noticed a big difference because the time before that I went I saw Philip Bertioli as Billy and he plays a less camp version of Billy. Maybe nothing in Stuart's performance has changed but I found it annoying and hadn't done so before. Also this show seems to have cut shows really often, I'm sure I've only seen a full ensemble a couple of times. Do cut shows happen loads on all musical productions or is this dance heavy show more likely to have injuries? I'm a numbers person and often count the number of people on stage, easy at times hard at other times. When I saw it on Saturday there were definitely swings doubling up roles. Embarrassingly I have seen the show enough to know when a certain ensemble track is being played by multiple people and before they got in the additional cast members leading to three extra swings I'd even seen a woman sitting in a man's spot for "There’s a Sunny Side to Every Situation". |
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Post by zak97 on Oct 31, 2017 15:09:54 GMT
Just a thought that came to mind, not based on any rumours or anything like that, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Darius takes over as Julian Marsh. Like Tom Lister, he has a name, he has musical theatre experience too, but is not too famous that it upstages the overall quality of the piece.
Personally, I hope this doesn't happen, just because I don't think he's a that great of an actor, but it wouldn't surprise me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 19:49:00 GMT
I have a feeling someone like Louise Dearman could be the next Dorothy Brock. And I kow some will like "urgh, fangirl" but I think she'd be ace in that part, I can see it. However, if Finding Neverland decides to come over soon, Louise girl, feel free to head on over there. That Laura Michelle Kelly role is one I have wanted you to play the moment I heard that solo.  |
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Post by zak97 on Oct 31, 2017 20:08:16 GMT
I imagine it’ll be another’name’ who’s slightly past it, to put it politely.
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Post by Dawnstar on Oct 31, 2017 20:19:39 GMT
I don't care about any of the characters either but for some reason in this it doesn't bother me that much. However the end is very odd and like you say having no idea what will happen next doesn't help. When I left the theatre once I was walking behind two people who were having a big discussion about how it should have finished one scene later at the party and their ideas about what would have happened there. I feel like Peggy has more interest in Julian than Billy because of her "grand, grand, grand, if you could come" but I think it's also very strange that he doesn't even congratulate her after the show until everyone else has gone. Oh well, odd ending to a show which tells you "who cares if there's a plot or not" so I guess they don't care about the plot! Random question does anyone who has seen the show lately and also ages ago feel that Stuart is a bit too over the top now? Maybe I noticed a big difference because the time before that I went I saw Philip Bertioli as Billy and he plays a less camp version of Billy. Maybe nothing in Stuart's performance has changed but I found it annoying and hadn't done so before. Also this show seems to have cut shows really often, I'm sure I've only seen a full ensemble a couple of times. Do cut shows happen loads on all musical productions or is this dance heavy show more likely to have injuries? I'm a numbers person and often count the number of people on stage, easy at times hard at other times. When I saw it on Saturday there were definitely swings doubling up roles. Embarrassingly I have seen the show enough to know when a certain ensemble track is being played by multiple people and before they got in the additional cast members leading to three extra swings I'd even seen a woman sitting in a man's spot for "There’s a Sunny Side to Every Situation". I agree that including the party would be a good idea. I personally would rather Peggy went for Billy, as he seems more suitable age-wise for her. Also nowadays she'd probably be shopping Julian for sexual harrassment for when he grabs her & kisses her in the rehearsal! I can't say I noticed any difference between Stuart Neal's performance between when I saw it in previews & earlier this month. However, having only seen it once in the interim, I wouldn't say I can remember his performance in April in real detail. I'm no expert but I think dance heavy shows are logically more likely to have more injuries. Mamma Mia is the only show I know of to have 3 covers for each role rather than 2 & I think that's at least partly because of the amount of dance in that. Most long-running musicals have cut shows with reasonable regularity though. I've seen both Phantom & Les Mis with multiple ensemble tracks cut & neither of them are what I'd call dance heavy. |
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Post by showtoones on Oct 31, 2017 20:28:07 GMT
I have a feeling someone like Louise Dearman could be the next Dorothy Brock. And I kow some will like "urgh, fangirl" but I think she'd be ace in that part, I can see it. However, if Finding Neverland decides to come over soon, Louise girl, feel free to head on over there. That Laura Michelle Kelly role is one I have wanted you to play the moment I heard that solo. Finding Neverland sadly is dead. Harvey Weinstein won't be producing anything anywhere for a good long while. |
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Post by dippy on Oct 31, 2017 22:16:30 GMT
I agree that including the party would be a good idea. I personally would rather Peggy went for Billy, as he seems more suitable age-wise for her. Also nowadays she'd probably be shopping Julian for sexual harrassment for when he grabs her & kisses her in the rehearsal! The end needs a rewrite! Very true, Julian would be in the news. I don't feel like either of them are right for her, Billy seems a bit too temperamental and gets annoyed with her for going to help a "man friend" and is very happy to let her go off and then dances with Annie. Julian, I really don't understand, as I mentioned before. Maybe he does really like her but isn't showing it in front of others but then has no problem with Maggie watching him kiss her. Oh, I don't know, and I guess there's no point in trying to think too much about it really because there is no answer. I can't say I noticed any difference between Stuart Neal's performance between when I saw it in previews & earlier this month. However, having only seen it once in the interim, I wouldn't say I can remember his performance in April in real detail. I do think it's probably me and I'm just preferring one interpretation to the other. I'm no expert but I think dance heavy shows are logically more likely to have more injuries. Mamma Mia is the only show I know of to have 3 covers for each role rather than 2 & I think that's at least partly because of the amount of dance in that. Most long-running musicals have cut shows with reasonable regularity though. I've seen both Phantom & Les Mis with multiple ensemble tracks cut & neither of them are what I'd call dance heavy. I guess I've not seen enough shows regularly enough to notice properly, good to know it's pretty common. |
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Post by wickedgrin on Nov 1, 2017 0:09:45 GMT
I am afraid I just leave my usual (highly) critical faculties at the door for this show and just ENJOY it! I am in musical theatre heaven every time the orchestra strikes up the overture.
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Post by tonyloco on Nov 1, 2017 9:53:47 GMT
I am afraid I just leave my usual (highly) critical faculties at the door for this show and just ENJOY it! I am in musical theatre heaven every time the orchestra strikes up the overture. I couldn't agree more. To sit in the front row end seats is the most fun one can have with one's clothes on, certainly for £15 or even £25. Curiously, I paid £25 for my seat on 20 October 2018 but only £15 for A24 on Thursday week. I thought all the £15 seats had finished but obviously not, or is that dynamic pricing acting in my favour? Perhaps the Monkey can explain. |
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Post by daniel on Nov 1, 2017 10:42:04 GMT
I am afraid I just leave my usual (highly) critical faculties at the door for this show and just ENJOY it! I am in musical theatre heaven every time the orchestra strikes up the overture. I couldn't agree more. To sit in the front row end seats is the most fun one can have with one's clothes on, certainly for £15 or even £25. Curiously, I paid £25 for my seat on 20 October 2018 but only £15 for A24 on Thursday week. I thought all the £15 seats had finished but obviously not, or is that dynamic pricing acting in my favour? Perhaps the Monkey can explain. the £15 is changing to £25 from the date of when the next block of tickets went on sale  |
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Post by tonyloco on Nov 1, 2017 11:54:50 GMT
Simply that prices change on 17th February, so hurry, hurry!
Daniel was typing same time as I was, obviously . Thanks daniel and TM. I had better comb through the dates between now and 17 February and snap up a few more at £15 before members of TheatreBoard buy them all. By the way, I don't know why people are concerned as to what happens at the end of the show. I think it's a perfectly satisfactory ending. Julian has got his hit show and will recoup his financial losses – 'Pretty Lady' is expected to run for maybe two years so all the dancers will be in work. Dorothy has found happiness in marrying Pat, Peggy went out a youngster and came back a star – surely that's enough for her for now without worrying whether she will go on to have a relationship with Julian or Billy? As Julian sings: 'The big parade goes on for years...' It's only a musical, after all! |
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Post by Mr Snow on Nov 1, 2017 15:56:45 GMT
"only a musical..." Words fail me. Luckily I can quote that sage Julian March, "Musical Comedy, the greatest words in the English language..." |
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