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Post by scarpia on Aug 3, 2019 20:02:57 GMT
Yeah after the Elena Rogers debacle, I was hoping for a more "epic" Evita that blew people's minds the way JCS did... OK, Elena Roge r was *not* a debacle. She deservedly got rave reviews and an Olivier nomination for her superb performance on London (she'd probably have won the award had it not been for the very stiff competition that year). It's a shame it didn't translate to Broadway. (I saw the production on both sides of the pond; it paled on Broadway compared to the gorgeous production we were given at the Adelphi in 2006). REALLY disappointed to read about the reactions...because since Michael Grandage's production closed far too early, I've been craving a first-class Evita and was hoping - what with Jamie Lloyd being an excellent director and not some Laurence-Connor-type hack ( Dr Faustus aside) - that this would be it. It was insulting enough that Kenwright's cheap touring mess got two outings in the West End to fill dark theatres. I'll be going the night after press night...with my fingers crossed. |
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Post by chernjam on Aug 3, 2019 20:52:23 GMT
Yeah after the Elena Rogers debacle, I was hoping for a more "epic" Evita that blew people's minds the way JCS did... OK, Elena Roge r was *not* a debacle. She deservedly got rave reviews and an Olivier nomination for her superb performance on London (she'd probably have won the award had it not been for the very stiff competition that year). It's a shame it didn't translate to Broadway. (I saw the production on both sides of the pond; it paled on Broadway compared to the gorgeous production we were given at the Adelphi in 2006). REALLY disappointed to read about the reactions...because since Michael Grandage's production closed far too early, I've been craving a first-class Evita and was hoping - what with Jamie Lloyd being an excellent director and not some Laurence-Connor-type hack ( Dr Faustus aside) - that this would be it. It was insulting enough that Kenwright's cheap touring mess got two outings in the West End to fill dark theatres. I'll be going the night after press night...with my fingers crossed. After hearing all the hype from London, I too was excited for the Broadway production. With Ricky Martin hamming it up (after reading about Sheridan in Joseph, it seems similar... he was constantly winking and playing for laughs from the audience) and Elena not being nearly the powerhouse in terms of singing that she was said to have been in London - the whole thing felt flat to me. It was still thrilling to hear that score live on a Broadway stage, but having seen various re-productions of the Prince version over the years, including my college who did a stellar -almost Broadway caliber production - that NY revival really didn't seem memorable. At least not in a positive way. I'm hopeful after reading Dom's review and will be curious as the previews unfold and opening night comes what the consensus will be - Hit or miss. Also, will be curious to hear if the performances are strong enough vocally to warrant a new recording |
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Post by theatreian on Aug 3, 2019 21:32:01 GMT
And is Che wearing only a pair of denim cut off shorts at the end? Well at least there is one good thing about it!! Unfortunately I will not get to see this version of Evita. Interesting to see differing views , which of course there will always be. |
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Post by terrylondon79 on Aug 3, 2019 22:13:30 GMT
What a mess...
Classic case of trying to hard, as you don't like the source material.
Lloyd obviously saw six just before creating this, as this tried to portray eva as a sassy six style queen. It failed miserably.
Laboured metaphor with balloons popping and, well a certain dress that got a noticeable laugh of derision!
Loads of environmentally questionable effects. Walking round the back of the, theatre after the show. Their confetti was strewn all over the roads. Also loads of pyrotechnics and wasting balloons.
Maye had be spoilt by the vocals at the kiln Theatre for blues in the night recently. As actress playing Eva screamed and screeched her way way through her songs. Disappointing compared to others we've seen in the role.
Side grass banks weren't expensive , even if they cramped 5 to many people on each side for it to be comfortable.
All in all a throughly disappointing show.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 3, 2019 22:22:35 GMT
What a mess... Classic case of trying to hard, as you don't like the source material. Lloyd obviously saw six just before creating this, as this tried to portray eva as a sassy six style queen. It failed miserably. Laboured metaphor with balloons popping and, well a certain dress that got a noticeable laugh of derision! Loads of environmentally questionable effects. Walking round the back of the, theatre after the show. Their confetti was strewn all over the roads. Also loads of pyrotechnics and wasting balloons. Maye had be spoilt by the vocals at the kiln Theatre for blues in the night recently. As actress playing Eva screamed and screeched her way way through her songs. Disappointing compared to others we've seen in the role. Side grass banks weren't expensive , even if they cramped 5 to many people on each side for it to be comfortable. All in all a throughly disappointing show. You loved it then... What was the audience reaction? |
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Post by terrylondon79 on Aug 3, 2019 22:34:42 GMT
What a mess... Classic case of trying to hard, as you don't like the source material. Lloyd obviously saw six just before creating this, as this tried to portray eva as a sassy six style queen. It failed miserably. Laboured metaphor with balloons popping and, well a certain dress that got a noticeable laugh of derision! Loads of environmentally questionable effects. Walking round the back of the, theatre after the show. Their confetti was strewn all over the roads. Also loads of pyrotechnics and wasting balloons. Maye had be spoilt by the vocals at the kiln Theatre for blues in the night recently. As actress playing Eva screamed and screeched her way way through her songs. Disappointing compared to others we've seen in the role. Side grass banks weren't expensive , even if they cramped 5 to many people on each side for it to be comfortable. All in all a throughly disappointing show. You loved it then... What was the audience reaction? Generally those who hadn't left gave it a standing ovation! However its the first weekend, and it is one of Webbers best scores! |
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Post by theoracle on Aug 3, 2019 22:38:11 GMT
This thread is arousing so much curiosity. Do people recommend sitting in the front row for this production? I see its the same price for for many of the central seats and was just wondering whether the steps on stage will lead to neck ache if sat in row A-C. Also is Sammantha Pauly actually doing all 8 shows a week or is she doing the traditional 6 and if so which ones will she be missing? Thanks guys, love reading the comments
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Post by Stephen on Aug 4, 2019 3:30:38 GMT
Loads of pyrotechnics in Evita!? This just sounds odd. When do these happen?
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Post by mrbarnaby on Aug 4, 2019 9:10:52 GMT
Jamie Lloyd wanted to do it like Beyoncé at Coachella... it sounds either genius or completely dreadful. Can’t wait to see it!
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Post by richey on Aug 4, 2019 9:20:12 GMT
Quite a few pictures emerging on Instagram (won't post any links as I've already been a naughty boy) Gosh Che's boxers are rather tight. Not a lot left to the imagination
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 9:54:47 GMT
Loads of pyrotechnics in Evita!? This just sounds odd. When do these happen? Evita's funeral in the opening scene and during A New Argentina (which incidentally she sings as written - and not an octave lower - for all three verses). There might have been some in Act 2 as well but can't recall where.... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 10:10:24 GMT
Dom - thanks for your review (and the spoiler tag with all those extra details). The thing I loved about ALW-TR collaboration (aside from Joseph) is that JCS and Evita both are incredibly classic musical scores. Even those who don't consider themselves ALW fans usually will admit to liking these two. Rice's lyrics are often so sarcastic that leaves room for interpretation and different expression that is part of the brilliance. It's why JCS as a theatre production has always struggled to be financially successful and viable on stage (at least here in the U.S.) Evita, you had Hal Prince who was able to get into the spirit of it and come up with a production that successfully walked that tight rope of Eva as Saint/Bitch. The recent revival seemed to have leaned more on the "saint" side. Eva became more of a tragic character. Not being Argentinian myself, I found myself much less moved and left the theatre thinking "so what" as Ricky Martin and Elena Rogers took their bows together. It was a great set and lighting design; the new orchestrations were fantastic. But aside from that, what makes Evita compelling is trying to figure out is this a tragic story or a musical bio-pic (which the Madonna movie also seemed to be) I'm intrigued and totally agree with you that removing these properties from ALW/TR and their influences and allowing new sets of eyes to play with them is something I'd like to see more of. I appreciate where they might come from and would worry about a complete bastardization of their work. But to allow some creatives with a good reputation and credibility to bring a new take on it, I'd love to see more of. Sorry I can't get over to UK to check this out... but can't wait to read more of all your takes Definitely a classic score. And played beautifully here by an 18 piece orchestra with an expanded strings section compared to the Adelphi. In fact it is played very classically, more like the original than the Adelphi version which made more of the Latin rhythms and beats. Sounds fabulous! Though again this as an odd decision as rest of the production so unusual, you'd have thought they might have changed the sound of the piece and the orchestrations. Anyway, I think it sounds gorgeous. If you don't like what was on stage visually and symbolically you could shut your eyes and just appreciate the music. Yes, Adelphi/Grandage version was very sympathetic to Eva. This was a definitive version for me I loved it. And Elena Roger was sensational. SO many stories re her being below par when the production made it to Broadway though and the whole show just not being as tight. Never saw it in NYC. But this has been much said. Such a shame and no idea why as it was sensational in London. I do love the Broadway Roger/Martin CD though - the only recent recording of the whole show - such a shame for the Adelphi they just did highlights CD. Yes was a real eye opener for me seeing a quality professional production of an ALW show that music aside clearly had none of his influence running through it. I love all the RUG produced shows as they tend to be of the highest quality but for many (Cats, Starlight, Phantom, etc etc) they are all that have ever existed. Find it extraordinary that a new director can take things from a piece (that the authors may not have imagined) and convey those through staging even though the lyrics are identical. This has been seen much more for Sondheim I guess - as he has not had the long runners like ALW, his works are constantly being done again by new production teams/directors Anyway, doubt we will ever know but would love to know what ALW thinks of this new version if and when he sees it! |
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Post by Stephen on Aug 4, 2019 11:07:17 GMT
Loads of pyrotechnics in Evita!? This just sounds odd. When do these happen? Evita's funeral in the opening scene and during A New Argentina (which incidentally she sings as written - and not an octave lower - for all three verses). There might have been some in Act 2 as well but can't recall where.... Are they the loud kind or the sparky quiet kind? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 11:10:45 GMT
Evita's funeral in the opening scene and during A New Argentina (which incidentally she sings as written - and not an octave lower - for all three verses). There might have been some in Act 2 as well but can't recall where.... Are they the loud kind or the sparky quiet kind? Ummmm can't really recall how loud they were but they didn't make people jump! They mainly came amid the loud scenes anyway like A New Argentina! |
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Post by winonaforever on Aug 4, 2019 12:08:25 GMT
I'm a bit 😯 at all this! I'm going twice anyway, so I hope I don't hate it the first time. I've never seen it before (only the film) but I do like the music.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Aug 4, 2019 12:14:02 GMT
Any advice and recommendations on which is the best cast recording to listen to?
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Post by theatrefan77 on Aug 4, 2019 12:14:37 GMT
I agree that he has gone with the third option, as you would expect of him, but I also think he's failed. Maybe I'll change my mind with a second viewing next week. Also I have a problem with the extremely misogynistic view of Eva in this production. She doesn't seem to have any redeeming features and I think that's completely wrong. I love the score, although is clearly very sexist and tends to portray her mainly as a bitch, but other productions have managed to capture the human side of the character and play a bit with the saint/sinner dilemma. I appreciate what you say - and certainly in a production that often left me feeling "what on earth point are they making here," there was no subtlety in how Eva was viewed. (Though I don't think there is evidence to conclude this is misogynistic - said portrayal isn't due to her being a woman as far as we know). Would it be fair to say something about this production intrigued you and got to you though - otherwise surely you wouldn't be going back, given that OAT are accepting returns? Yes, that would be fair to say. I want to see it again. With the element of surprise gone, maybe I'll look at it differently. Evita is a favourite of mine and at worst I will still enjoy listening to it live. I will probably have to close my eyes when Peron does his Elvis Presley dance moves during I'd Be Surprisingly Good For You. I must admit that it was one of the bits which drove me mad. Nothing to do with Ektor Rivera who's a fine performer, just the way that part is directed. I guess at that moment I wasn't yet over that they have cast such a young performer as Peron, who is supposed to be 24 years older than Eva. Sorry, I'm rambling! Yes, I look forward to see it again. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 12:50:08 GMT
I appreciate what you say - and certainly in a production that often left me feeling "what on earth point are they making here," there was no subtlety in how Eva was viewed. (Though I don't think there is evidence to conclude this is misogynistic - said portrayal isn't due to her being a woman as far as we know). Would it be fair to say something about this production intrigued you and got to you though - otherwise surely you wouldn't be going back, given that OAT are accepting returns? Yes, that would be fair to say. I want to see it again. With the element of surprise gone, maybe I'll look at it differently. Evita is a favourite of mine and at worst I will still enjoy listening to it live. I will probably have to close my eyes when Peron does his Elvis Presley dance moves during I'd Be Surprisingly Good For You. I must admit that it was one of the bits which drove me mad. Nothing to do with Ektor Rivera who's a fine performer, just the way that part is directed. I guess at that moment I wasn't yet over that they have cast such a young performer as Peron, who is supposed to be 24 years older than Eva. Sorry, I'm rambling! Yes, I look forward to see it again. Haha, I agree Ektor was like a cute South American twink - not that I'm complaining. But certainly didn't have the gravitas Peron usually does! I assume this goes with the idea that the Eva had all the power and could eat him alive.... I didn't notice his moves in IBSGFY as was totally transfixed by the moves of the lady and the topless bloke at the back of the stage ;-) Evita also a fave of mine; but although the Grandage version is my preferred, I don't have a fixed idea on what it should look like so prob made it easier to digest. (And TBO, ANYTHING is better than the Kenwright tour - I mean Marti Pellow; what the hell were they thinking?!?!) For Cats and Starlight for example I don't think I'd cope with them being reimagined as I love the RUG versions so much. Sunset has also never been the same for me post the Adelphi.... But Evita, having been too young for the original which I know many find definitive, I am very open to different productions. Anyway, now it's me that's rambling lol. Very much looking fwd to hearing what you think of it on trip 2 :-) |
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Post by Jon on Aug 4, 2019 13:07:28 GMT
I think it's better for a director and creative team to be bold and take a big swing and fail rather than play it safe. Without reinvention, you'd be left with museum pieces.
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Post by d'James on Aug 4, 2019 14:01:02 GMT
Quite a few pictures emerging on Instagram (won't post any links as I've already been a naughty boy) Gosh Che's boxers are rather tight. Not a lot left to the imagination At least DM me the hashtags to search for ;-) |
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Aug 4, 2019 16:55:52 GMT
Any advice and recommendations on which is the best cast recording to listen to? I'd say the OBC. The OLC has large parts of the score missing and I much prefer the original Broadway orchestrations to the revival ones with Elena Rogers (and I think Patti LuPone's voice sounds a lot better than Elena's, even though I believe she wasn't quite as commanding as on the stage as she hadn't finished rehearsals yet or something along those lines). |
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Post by scarpia on Aug 4, 2019 17:02:41 GMT
Dom - thanks for your review (and the spoiler tag with all those extra details). The thing I loved about ALW-TR collaboration (aside from Joseph) is that JCS and Evita both are incredibly classic musical scores. Even those who don't consider themselves ALW fans usually will admit to liking these two. Rice's lyrics are often so sarcastic that leaves room for interpretation and different expression that is part of the brilliance. It's why JCS as a theatre production has always struggled to be financially successful and viable on stage (at least here in the U.S.) Evita, you had Hal Prince who was able to get into the spirit of it and come up with a production that successfully walked that tight rope of Eva as Saint/Bitch. The recent revival seemed to have leaned more on the "saint" side. Eva became more of a tragic character. Not being Argentinian myself, I found myself much less moved and left the theatre thinking "so what" as Ricky Martin and Elena Rogers took their bows together. It was a great set and lighting design; the new orchestrations were fantastic. But aside from that, what makes Evita compelling is trying to figure out is this a tragic story or a musical bio-pic (which the Madonna movie also seemed to be) I'm intrigued and totally agree with you that removing these properties from ALW/TR and their influences and allowing new sets of eyes to play with them is something I'd like to see more of. I appreciate where they might come from and would worry about a complete bastardization of their work. But to allow some creatives with a good reputation and credibility to bring a new take on it, I'd love to see more of. Sorry I can't get over to UK to check this out... but can't wait to read more of all your takes Definitely a classic score. And played beautifully here by an 18 piece orchestra with an expanded strings section compared to the Adelphi. In fact it is played very classically, more like the original than the Adelphi version which made more of the Latin rhythms and beats. Sounds fabulous! Though again this as an odd decision as rest of the production so unusual, you'd have thought they might have changed the sound of the piece and the orchestrations. Anyway, I think it sounds gorgeous. If you don't like what was on stage visually and symbolically you could shut your eyes and just appreciate the music. Yes, Adelphi/Grandage version was very sympathetic to Eva. This was a definitive version for me I loved it. And Elena Roger was sensational. SO many stories re her being below par when the production made it to Broadway though and the whole show just not being as tight. Never saw it in NYC. But this has been much said. Such a shame and no idea why as it was sensational in London. I do love the Broadway Roger/Martin CD though - the only recent recording of the whole show - such a shame for the Adelphi they just did highlights CD. Yes was a real eye opener for me seeing a quality professional production of an ALW show that music aside clearly had none of his influence running through it. I love all the RUG produced shows as they tend to be of the highest quality but for many (Cats, Starlight, Phantom, etc etc) they are all that have ever existed. Find it extraordinary that a new director can take things from a piece (that the authors may not have imagined) and convey those through staging even though the lyrics are identical. This has been seen much more for Sondheim I guess - as he has not had the long runners like ALW, his works are constantly being done again by new production teams/directors Anyway, doubt we will ever know but would love to know what ALW thinks of this new version if and when he sees it! The orchestrations for the 2006/2012 revival have become the standard now, although I find they don't work when they're played by too small an orchestra. They sounded terrific at the Adelphi and somehow sounded much tinnier at the Marquis when Grandage's production transferred there. They even use the revival orchestrations (and revised script) in the Hal Prince production that is touring internationally; this is a big mistake, IMHO, because the sound doesn't gel with the hard-edged take of that production, and Larry Fuller's original choreography does not work at all with some of the rewritten bits, such as the bridge in 'Buenos Aires'. Re Grandage's production, I saw it at the Adelphi 5 times (and while I thought it was top-notch, it did admittedly seem lacklustre when Elena wasn't there) and having made a trip to Broadway to repeat the experience (saw the Grandage production twice there), I was really saddened by Elena's hostile reception on Broadway. It came down to a lot of things: nationalism (the amount of Americans who kept complaining they wanted 'one of their own' to take on the role was absurd; a different viewpoint on Evita (Eva and Perón are still thoroughly demonised in the States and regularly called 'fascists'/'dictators', which isn't strictly true); a preference to have their Evita as a diva-bitch à la LuPone; a preference to have Broadway-type voices; and too long a period of the transfer (Roger's performance in London was fiery and soulful; on Broadway it sometimes came across as mechanical and bored, and it didn't help that Ricky Martin's non-existent acting meant she had nothing to respond to, which then diminished her own performance). Part of the reason the Grandage production was more sympathetic is that Eva as portrayed in the original Broadway production (less so the original London production) was a caricature that never existed. There's a reason that production never played Argentina. The whole purpose of the Grandage production was to go down the authentic route; anyone who researches Eva Perón will find that the way she was portrayed in the American version of Prince's production was not accurate (even if it might have been thrilling for the chewing-the-scenery effect). It's a real shame they didn't tour Grandage's production in this country after the West End run; instead they used that criminal Kenwright production which should have died a death some time ago. In the absence of either Hal Prince's/Michael Grandage's production, we need a big epic production that serves this material well...but I fear Lloyd's won't be it. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Aug 4, 2019 17:45:44 GMT
Any advice and recommendations on which is the best cast recording to listen to? I'd say the OBC. The OLC has large parts of the score missing and I much prefer the original Broadway orchestrations to the revival ones with Elena Rogers (and I think Patti LuPone's voice sounds a lot better than Elena's, even though I believe she wasn't quite as commanding as on the stage as she hadn't finished rehearsals yet or something along those lines). Thanks, the OBC is the one I prefer anyway. |
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Post by chernjam on Aug 5, 2019 3:42:50 GMT
Re Grandage's production, I saw it at the Adelphi 5 times (and while I thought it was top-notch, it did admittedly seem lacklustre when Elena wasn't there) and having made a trip to Broadway to repeat the experience (saw the Grandage production twice there), I was really saddened by Elena's hostile reception on Broadway. It came down to a lot of things: nationalism (the amount of Americans who kept complaining they wanted 'one of their own' to take on the role was absurd; a different viewpoint on Evita (Eva and Perón are still thoroughly demonised in the States and regularly called 'fascists'/'dictators', which isn't strictly true); a preference to have their Evita as a diva-bitch à la LuPone; a preference to have Broadway-type voices; and too long a period of the transfer (Roger's performance in London was fiery and soulful; on Broadway it sometimes came across as mechanical and bored, and it didn't help that Ricky Martin's non-existent acting meant she had nothing to respond to, which then diminished her own performance). Part of the reason the Grandage production was more sympathetic is that Eva as portrayed in the original Broadway production (less so the original London production) was a caricature that never existed. There's a reason that production never played Argentina. The whole purpose of the Grandage production was to go down the authentic route; anyone who researches Eva Perón will find that the way she was portrayed in the American version of Prince's production was not accurate (even if it might have been thrilling for the chewing-the-scenery effect). It's a real shame they didn't tour Grandage's production in this country after the West End run; instead they used that criminal Kenwright production which should have died a death some time ago. In the absence of either Hal Prince's/Michael Grandage's production, we need a big epic production that serves this material well...but I fear Lloyd's won't be it. Scarpia - interesting take on Rogers in the US. I don't know if I'd agree with the characterization of Americans wanting one of our own to take the role. Maria Friedman was warmly received in The Woman in White... I remember people being excited about having an Argentinian who was so well received in London taking the role in NY (and as one who thinks LuPone is way overrated, was hoping Rogers would erase any memories of LuPone). But I think you're spot on regarding Martin being mis-cast and making it harder for Rogers. From what I heard of his performance, people felt he was simply playing to the crowds (many Martin fans came out in droves). I specifically went to see when he wasn't on and Che was played by Max Von Essen - who was phenomenal. Rogers was good - but she was struggling vocally... which was another criticism that dodged her in her NY run. I felt badly for her and the production as a whole. Because they hung their hopes on Martin to sell it, that really re-shifted whatever focus the original production had (and yes that delay between London and NY was wayyyy too long) |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 10:51:10 GMT
Chernjam and Scarpia - thanks so much for your posts about the Broadway version of the Grandage production. So interesting to read. As someone who was firmly in the camp of loving Elena Roger in London is good to read some of the theories of why things didn't work out for her on Broadway (which was a real shame). Odd that her voice had started to struggle as was fine in London (though I do recall even then, it's quality wasn't to everyone's taste).
I do wonder if there was more of a drive to get a 'name' for Broadway due to disappointing sales in London where there were no 'names' (which incidentally was fine by me :-)). Before it opened in London there was a poll which had concluded it was the musical most people wanted to see revived. I think they thought it would run and run. In the event it had an opening buzz but it died pretty quickly. It just about made it to a year, had a cast change and then promptly announced closing. So a relative success but not I think what the producers had hoped for. (Personally I think this is due to changing tastes and less desire for the sung through mega musicals. Miss Saigon revival was sold out for 6 months, mostly with punters who fondly remembered the original, then also fell off very quickly - I don't think it gained much of a NEW audience).
Anyway, am rambling. But yes, Ricky Martin no doubt an attempt to get bums on seats for longer.
I do agree that is a great shame that the RUG/Grandage production didn't tour afterwards. In fact ALW's ambition (lack thereof) re the UK touring circuit has baffled me for a long time. They do produce tours (Cats, the Faith Brown Sunset, the Gale Edwards Aspects and JCS) but in the main he seems to leave it to others, most notably Kenwright.
I think sadly as ever the problem is financial. The awful Kenwright Evita sells out touring houses. So where is the incentive for producers to spend more? (Though Cam Mac does, as he wants to see his shows as the best version they can be - and this is a wonderful attitude I think).
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