1,562 posts
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Post by showtoones on Jun 27, 2019 23:10:05 GMT
Dove Cameron had horrible attendance in Clueless off Broadway too. Not sure why she keeps getting hired. More trouble than she’s worth.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2019 10:30:30 GMT
Went to see this on Wednesday evening. An interesting piece that I am glad I saw. I echo what others have said that the lush sound of the large orchestra was delightful and the performances were all fabulous. I did think that the score wasn't that amazing though - very easy on the ear but little hummable the next day - and I am not in a massive rush to listen to the CD again.
Story wise I don't feel a huge amount really happened and there wasn't a huge amount of drama. It was very gentle. I would also like them to have made clear what Clara's developmental problem actually was - was she just immature or did she have a more formal diagnosis that affected her emotions and social interactions.
Dove Cameron was off. I had never heard of her but she is clearly quite famous and it seems many people booked this on the basis of her name. Anyway, one of the producers came on before the start to say that Molly Lynch would be performing and to show her support as she has just learned the role. Anyway, you wouldn't have known that she hadn't been doing it for weeks. Beautiful voice and utterly charming in the character. She got a wonderful reception quite rightly and looked delighted and really moved at the end so that was lovely.
Now, a quick soapbox moment - the southbank centre tweeted to say that Dove was indisposed and that Lynch would be on and gave contact details should people wish to exchange. And oh my God - the Twitter aggression towards them and fury that they were "dissing understudies" "behaving disgracefully to Molly" "insulting the work of understudies etc etc." Now, I really don't think they were dissing anyone. It really was an innocuous Tweet giving people the option to exchange. Personally I know understudies are wonderful and I was very happy to see Molly. We also all know that you pay for the show, not the person. But, if you happened to be a massive Dove fan and had your heart set on seeing her - then if the producer afford you that option - that is good customer service.
It just seems to me sometimes that certain actors on Twitter are sat there just desperate to be offended. And it really feels like faux outrage. And it is ALWAYS-the-same-people! You know, the ones that were FURIOUS for Laura Baldwin - vast majority of whom have probably never met her! As someone that was there on Wednesday, Molly really doesn't need their faux concern - she gave a sensational performance and got a rapturous reception and I am sure had a wonderful night.
I feel for producers, not often lol, but sometimes. And here they are damned if they do, damned if they don't - I think the offer of the exchanges came after they had a high level of complaints last time Dove was off. And giving people the option is a good thing - those who wanted to see Lynch (like me) did and the Dove fans got the option to re-book - for once it is win win.
Also - this constant driving home on Twitter about how amazing understudies are is getting daft - because in the Twitter bubble, nobody does think understudies are lesser - we all know they are amazing! They are preaching, aggressively, to the converted.
I just wish people on Twitter would calm down and recognise the world is a place of nuance with many sides to any issue - it's not black and white.
Anyway, down off the soapbox now!
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Jun 28, 2019 11:20:25 GMT
Went to see this on Wednesday evening. An interesting piece that I am glad I saw. I echo what others have said that the lush sound of the large orchestra was delightful and the performances were all fabulous. I did think that the score wasn't that amazing though - very easy on the ear but little hummable the next day - and I am not in a massive rush to listen to the CD again. Story wise I don't feel a huge amount really happened and there wasn't a huge amount of drama. It was very gentle. I would also like them to have made clear what Clara's developmental problem actually was - was she just immature or did she have a more formal diagnosis that affected her emotions and social interactions. Dove Cameron was off. I had never heard of her but she is clearly quite famous and it seems many people booked this on the basis of her name. Anyway, one of the producers came on before the start to say that Molly Lynch would be performing and to show her support as she has just learned the role. Anyway, you wouldn't have known that she hadn't been doing it for weeks. Beautiful voice and utterly charming in the character. She got a wonderful reception quite rightly and looked delighted and really moved at the end so that was lovely. Now, a quick soapbox moment - the southbank centre tweeted to say that Dove was indisposed and that Lynch would be on and gave contact details should people wish to exchange. And oh my God - the Twitter aggression towards them and fury that they were "dissing understudies" "behaving disgracefully to Molly" "insulting the work of understudies etc etc." Now, I really don't think they were dissing anyone. It really was an innocuous Tweet giving people the option to exchange. Personally I know understudies are wonderful and I was very happy to see Molly. We also all know that you pay for the show, not the person. But, if you happened to be a massive Dove fan and had your heart set on seeing her - then if the producer afford you that option - that is good customer service. It just seems to me sometimes that certain actors on Twitter are sat there just desperate to be offended. And it really feels like faux outrage. And it is ALWAYS-the-same-people! You know, the ones that were FURIOUS for Laura Baldwin - vast majority of whom have probably never met her! As someone that was there on Wednesday, Molly really doesn't need their faux concern - she gave a sensational performance and got a rapturous reception and I am sure had a wonderful night. I feel for producers, not often lol, but sometimes. And here they are damned if they do, damned if they don't - I think the offer of the exchanges came after they had a high level of complaints last time Dove was off. And giving people the option is a good thing - those who wanted to see Lynch (like me) did and the Dove fans got the option to re-book - for once it is win win. Also - this constant driving home on Twitter about how amazing understudies are is getting daft - because in the Twitter bubble, nobody does think understudies are lesser - we all know they are amazing! They are preaching, aggressively, to the converted. I just wish people on Twitter would calm down and recognise the world is a place of nuance with many sides to any issue - it's not black and white. Anyway, down off the soapbox now! Completely agree with you regarding the understudies. Obviously their arguments are that you should book for the show and not the person but I'm not sure I agree with that? Maybe this is your only opportunity to see this person live in your life and missing them would be a huge disappointment? Obviously their understudy will be immensely talented but perhaps the original actor has had some profound impact or something. But even ignoring that for a moment, it's obvious that a lot of people have booked for Dove and it's obvious in other cases of large actors in shows that people have booked pacifically to see them so from a business perspective it's only fair to offer another opportunity to see the person these people booked for, whether you agree that they should have solely booked for an actor or not. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 28, 2019 11:22:31 GMT
I recently watched the film and greatly enjoyed it. I found it to have so much detail and explanation compared to the stage version.
In the film Clara does have some behavioural difficulties that could be the result of a cognitive impairment. In the RFH version I just thought she came accross as the result of poor parenting.
In the film, mum's motivation for agreeing to rhe marriage is so much clearer and believable (I won't give it away).
Since watching it on stage I have tried listening to the recording, yes the sound is lovley but I am not sure if it is anything more than that.
I will now move onto the book and rewatch the Lincoln Centre production!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2019 11:24:48 GMT
I recently watched the film and greatly enjoyed it. I found it to have so much detail and explanation compared to the stage version. In the film Clara does have some behavioural difficulties that could be the result of a cognitive impairment. In the RFH version I just thought she came accross as the result of poor parenting. In the film mum's motivation for agreeing to rhe marriage is so much clearer and believable (I won't give it away). Since watching it on stage I have tried listening to the recording, yes the sound is lovley but I am not sure if it is anything more than that. I will now move onto the book and rewatch the Lincoln Centre production! Thanks - that's very interesting info! Certainly seeing the musical having never seen the film or read the book, it wasn't obvious to me what the characters background and motivations were! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2019 11:26:24 GMT
Went to see this on Wednesday evening. An interesting piece that I am glad I saw. I echo what others have said that the lush sound of the large orchestra was delightful and the performances were all fabulous. I did think that the score wasn't that amazing though - very easy on the ear but little hummable the next day - and I am not in a massive rush to listen to the CD again. Story wise I don't feel a huge amount really happened and there wasn't a huge amount of drama. It was very gentle. I would also like them to have made clear what Clara's developmental problem actually was - was she just immature or did she have a more formal diagnosis that affected her emotions and social interactions. Dove Cameron was off. I had never heard of her but she is clearly quite famous and it seems many people booked this on the basis of her name. Anyway, one of the producers came on before the start to say that Molly Lynch would be performing and to show her support as she has just learned the role. Anyway, you wouldn't have known that she hadn't been doing it for weeks. Beautiful voice and utterly charming in the character. She got a wonderful reception quite rightly and looked delighted and really moved at the end so that was lovely. Now, a quick soapbox moment - the southbank centre tweeted to say that Dove was indisposed and that Lynch would be on and gave contact details should people wish to exchange. And oh my God - the Twitter aggression towards them and fury that they were "dissing understudies" "behaving disgracefully to Molly" "insulting the work of understudies etc etc." Now, I really don't think they were dissing anyone. It really was an innocuous Tweet giving people the option to exchange. Personally I know understudies are wonderful and I was very happy to see Molly. We also all know that you pay for the show, not the person. But, if you happened to be a massive Dove fan and had your heart set on seeing her - then if the producer afford you that option - that is good customer service. It just seems to me sometimes that certain actors on Twitter are sat there just desperate to be offended. And it really feels like faux outrage. And it is ALWAYS-the-same-people! You know, the ones that were FURIOUS for Laura Baldwin - vast majority of whom have probably never met her! As someone that was there on Wednesday, Molly really doesn't need their faux concern - she gave a sensational performance and got a rapturous reception and I am sure had a wonderful night. I feel for producers, not often lol, but sometimes. And here they are damned if they do, damned if they don't - I think the offer of the exchanges came after they had a high level of complaints last time Dove was off. And giving people the option is a good thing - those who wanted to see Lynch (like me) did and the Dove fans got the option to re-book - for once it is win win. Also - this constant driving home on Twitter about how amazing understudies are is getting daft - because in the Twitter bubble, nobody does think understudies are lesser - we all know they are amazing! They are preaching, aggressively, to the converted. I just wish people on Twitter would calm down and recognise the world is a place of nuance with many sides to any issue - it's not black and white. Anyway, down off the soapbox now! Completely agree with you regarding the understudies. Obviously their arguments are that you should book for the show and not the person but I'm not sure I agree with that? Maybe this is your only opportunity to see this person live in your life and missing them would be a huge disappointment? Obviously their understudy will be immensely talented but perhaps the original actor has had some profound impact or something. But even ignoring that for a moment, it's obvious that a lot of people have booked for Dove and it's obvious in other cases of large actors in shows that people have booked pacifically to see them so from a business perspective it's only fair to offer another opportunity to see the person these people booked for, whether you agree that they should have solely booked for an actor or not. Exactly! When Glenn was off, for me it was wonderful to get the chance to see Ria Jones and she had a great few performances and was I think very happy. But it didn't matter at all that exchanges were offered for those wanting Glenn. Again, not an entitlement (yes we book for the show) but good customer service. |
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Post by missthelma on Jun 28, 2019 18:08:07 GMT
Story wise I don't feel a huge amount really happened and there wasn't a huge amount of drama. It was very gentle. I would also like them to have made clear what Clara's developmental problem actually was - was she just immature or did she have a more formal diagnosis that affected her emotions and social interactions. I've been listening to the CD today trying to decide if I want to go and see this. Almost persuaded by the raves for Rob Houchen and the possibility of a £20 ticket but it is going to be hot tomorrow and I still don't really like the music/style. But anyway as it was playing I think Track 14 The Beauty Is (Reprise) explains Clara's issue {Spoiler - click to view}
she was kicked in the head by a horse as an adolescent |
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Post by fiyero on Jun 28, 2019 20:59:19 GMT
Story wise I don't feel a huge amount really happened and there wasn't a huge amount of drama. It was very gentle. I would also like them to have made clear what Clara's developmental problem actually was - was she just immature or did she have a more formal diagnosis that affected her emotions and social interactions. I've been listening to the CD today trying to decide if I want to go and see this. Almost persuaded by the raves for Rob Houchen and the possibility of a £20 ticket but it is going to be hot tomorrow and I still don't really like the music/style. But anyway as it was playing I think Track 14 The Beauty Is (Reprise) explains Clara's issue {Spoiler - click to view}
she was kicked in the head by a horse as an adolescent While that spoiler explains the cause it doesn't explain the affect. Is she just a bit slow, does she over-react, did she stop aging mentally at that point or get worse? |
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Jun 28, 2019 21:30:06 GMT
I've been listening to the CD today trying to decide if I want to go and see this. Almost persuaded by the raves for Rob Houchen and the possibility of a £20 ticket but it is going to be hot tomorrow and I still don't really like the music/style. But anyway as it was playing I think Track 14 The Beauty Is (Reprise) explains Clara's issue {Spoiler - click to view}
she was kicked in the head by a horse as an adolescent While that spoiler explains the cause it doesn't explain the affect. Is she just a bit slow, does she over-react, did she stop aging mentally at that point or get worse? I'm pretty sure the mum says pretty expressly that she doesn't develop mentally as quickly as the average person (or the doctors may have suggested that she may not develop mentally at all so it is slightly muddled although the mother draws attention to signs that lead her to doubt this diagnosis) so she essentially has a more child-like and innocent view of the world hence her fascination with everything and everyone and thus inappropriately speaking to random strangers and making untimely comments and her immature ripping up of the instructions and subsequent breakdown once she realises she's lost. |
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4,961 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 29, 2019 6:24:21 GMT
As someone who works with adults who are diagnosed with a learning disability - the mental age is horribly dated and oppressive term to use. What is important is a persons socialisation and understanding of situations.
you may see somone as 'childlike' but people often live as independently as possibly have a job, have sex, drink beer etc so they are not children at all.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Jun 29, 2019 7:17:10 GMT
As someone who works with adults who are diagnosed with a learning disability - the mental age is horribly dated and oppressive term to use. What is important is a persons socialisation and understanding of situations. you may see somone as 'childlike' but people often live as independently as possibly have a job, have sex, drink beer etc so they are not children at all. Sorry I didn't mean to use out-dated terms but that's the way the show seems to posit it but obviously it is dated since it's based on a story in the 50s but it also comes to the conclusion that Clara is her own adult and should be able to be independent of her mother and decide for herself etc. which is obviously the correct conclusion to come to and why I love the show so much and one of the reasons I found it so moving. I honestly didn't know those were offensive terms so again I apologise. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 29, 2019 7:25:23 GMT
Now, a quick soapbox moment - the southbank centre tweeted to say that Dove was indisposed and that Lynch would be on and gave contact details should people wish to exchange. And oh my God - the Twitter aggression towards them and fury that they were "dissing understudies" "behaving disgracefully to Molly" "insulting the work of understudies etc etc." Now, I really don't think they were dissing anyone. It really was an innocuous Tweet giving people the option to exchange. Personally I know understudies are wonderful and I was very happy to see Molly. We also all know that you pay for the show, not the person. But, if you happened to be a massive Dove fan and had your heart set on seeing her - then if the producer afford you that option - that is good customer service. It just seems to me sometimes that certain actors on Twitter are sat there just desperate to be offended. And it really feels like faux outrage. And it is ALWAYS-the-same-people! You know, the ones that were FURIOUS for Laura Baldwin - vast majority of whom have probably never met her! As someone that was there on Wednesday, Molly really doesn't need their faux concern - she gave a sensational performance and got a rapturous reception and I am sure had a wonderful night. Oh yes..... |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 29, 2019 7:27:04 GMT
Love the reply to CHF’s tweet from someone reminding her that she directed people to the box office for refunds when she was off from a show. And the inevitable passive aggressive response.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 29, 2019 7:32:32 GMT
Seeing the matinee today. What’s the air con like in there?
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Post by showtoones on Jun 29, 2019 7:38:31 GMT
Just because someone doesn’t want to see an understudy, doesn’t mean the understudy is not good. It just means people want to see who they want to see (and who was advertised).
People who see a lot of shows have seen many understudies in our time, but people who see shows only now and then may have booked to see a certain performer. That doesn’t make them a bad person. CHF needs to get over herself.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 29, 2019 7:53:34 GMT
As someone who works with adults who are diagnosed with a learning disability - the mental age is horribly dated and oppressive term to use. What is important is a persons socialisation and understanding of situations. you may see somone as 'childlike' but people often live as independently as possibly have a job, have sex, drink beer etc so they are not children at all. Sorry I didn't mean to use out-dated terms but that's the way the show seems to posit it but obviously it is dated since it's based on a story in the 50s but it also comes to the conclusion that Clara is her own adult and should be able to be independent of her mother and decide for herself etc. which is obviously the correct conclusion to come to and why I love the show so much and one of the reasons I found it so moving. I honestly didn't know those were offensive terms so again I apologise. It's fine. I recognised you were using the terminology that is in book (and that is line with its 1950's medical model of disability). |
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Jun 29, 2019 9:59:49 GMT
Seeing the matinee today. What’s the air con like in there? It was actually pretty chilly in there when I saw it a week ago. |
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Post by sagiirl on Jun 29, 2019 10:00:11 GMT
Seeing the matinee today. What’s the air con like in there? We were there last Saturday afternoon and it was good as it was also a very warm day. Enjoy |
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Post by missthelma on Jun 29, 2019 10:19:24 GMT
Love the reply to CHF’s tweet from someone reminding her that she directed people to the box office for refunds when she was off from a show. And the inevitable passive aggressive response. The arrogance from CHF is breathtaking, she sent people to the box office as her 'fans' demanded it yet it seems not to cross her mind that the Festival Hall may have been dealing with lots of upset fans of Dove Cameron. I truly don't see anything shady in the initial tweet, the first outraged retweet I saw was from Judy Kuhn and I was a touch baffled then, it's the most bland, information only announcement possible. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 10:24:15 GMT
It is the most ridiculous response to a tweet. Honestly, theatre people live in their own little bubble.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 29, 2019 10:43:48 GMT
Any virtue signalling tweet that ends with the words “Do better” immediately gets my hackles up 😝.
According to that well known gossip forum (which I do not read 🤥) CHF is struggling with her social media presence at the moment. Still lots of followers but the YouTube views are waaaay down.
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Post by danb on Jun 29, 2019 10:51:22 GMT
“ I truly don't see anything shady in the initial tweet, the first outraged retweet I saw was from Judy Kuhn and I was a touch baffled then, it's the most bland, information only announcement possible.”
But it isn’t is it? There’s a subtext. Not in theatre circles where everything is life or death, end of the world self induced hysteria. The pedestrian way it is worded encourages people not to see the understudy but to get a refund. It doesn’t even particularly sell the possibility of squeezing you into another date (despite tickets being massively ‘available’ for the rest of the run).
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Post by robertb213 on Jun 29, 2019 12:30:58 GMT
Loads of theatre stars responded to the tweet saying it was disrespectful, but once again Carrie is the one who gets singled out!
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Post by couldileaveyou on Jun 29, 2019 14:04:33 GMT
South Bank could have split the message in two tweets out of gracefulness, one to inform about Cameron's absence and one to suggest an alternative, but they did nothing wrong. If you advertise the star as much as you advertise the show you shouldn't be surprised to see people coming specifically for the star.
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19,676 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 29, 2019 14:11:12 GMT
Loads of theatre stars responded to the tweet saying it was disrespectful, but once again Carrie is the one who gets singled out! Yes but Carrie’s has the unique added flavour of someone pointing out that she has historically instructed her own fans to change dates rather than see her understudy. So a tad hypocritical. Do better Carrie! 😀 |
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