23 posts
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Post by strallenfan on Mar 22, 2023 14:34:47 GMT
I really really don’t understand why it’s a massive great big deal who is going on when 👀 You get who you get.. just think of it like a kinder surprise but green.
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Post by cezbear on Mar 22, 2023 14:46:56 GMT
I really really don’t understand why it’s a massive great big deal who is going on when 👀 You get who you get.. just think of it like a kinder surprise but green. If I buy a kinder surprise it is advertised as a surprise. If I buy a wicked ticket I should have a reasonable expectation of getting the advertised lead cast. Of course barring illness, and holiday can be viewed on the site. But my odds, while never guaranteed, should be significantly better than a toss up. Under Lucie it was a toss up. |
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23 posts
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Post by strallenfan on Mar 22, 2023 15:45:54 GMT
I really really don’t understand why it’s a massive great big deal who is going on when 👀 You get who you get.. just think of it like a kinder surprise but green. If I buy a kinder surprise it is advertised as a surprise. If I buy a wicked ticket I should have a reasonable expectation of getting the advertised lead cast. Of course barring illness, and holiday can be viewed on the site. But my odds, while never guaranteed, should be significantly better than a toss up. Under Lucie it was a toss up. Not really because you’re buying a ticket to see the show. You have no idea the reasons Lucie was so patchy with her attendance - and more to the point you literally have no right to know. Her medical history is her own business, not yours. I don’t understand why everyone’s up in arms about it in this day and age.. 🤷🏼♀️ |
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Post by cezbear on Mar 22, 2023 15:56:03 GMT
If I buy a kinder surprise it is advertised as a surprise. If I buy a wicked ticket I should have a reasonable expectation of getting the advertised lead cast. Of course barring illness, and holiday can be viewed on the site. But my odds, while never guaranteed, should be significantly better than a toss up. Under Lucie it was a toss up. Not really because you’re buying a ticket to see the show. You have no idea the reasons Lucie was so patchy with her attendance - and more to the point you literally have no right to know. Her medical history is her own business, not yours. I don’t understand why everyone’s up in arms about it in this day and age.. 🤷🏼♀️ I have never asked for anyone's medical history, I very much wouldn't be interested. I was simply pointing out your comparison didn't make any sense. Which it doesn't. However, the cast are part of the package with the show. If that wasn't the case they'd put pictures up of absolutely anyone in costume. Again, I don't need to know their business. But it's wrong to suggest people shouldn't care who they see. Wicked has done very well out of fans who care a huge amount who they see. |
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Post by danb on Mar 22, 2023 17:28:34 GMT
If I buy a kinder surprise it is advertised as a surprise. If I buy a wicked ticket I should have a reasonable expectation of getting the advertised lead cast. Of course barring illness, and holiday can be viewed on the site. But my odds, while never guaranteed, should be significantly better than a toss up. Under Lucie it was a toss up. Not really because you’re buying a ticket to see the show. You have no idea the reasons Lucie was so patchy with her attendance - and more to the point you literally have no right to know. Her medical history is her own business, not yours. I don’t understand why everyone’s up in arms about it in this day and age.. 🤷🏼♀️ Because ‘in this day & age’ musical theatre is as much about its stars as it is about the shows. Social media has been utilised to drum up frenzies at every cast change. People have a right to expect to see the faces used to advertise the show. The show is sold on it. Blah blah sickness & holiday…blah blah medical privacy. Either go back to casting fabulous nobodies and CREATING stars or act with a bit of integrity and admit whatever voice saving schedule has been agreed. |
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Post by robertb213 on Mar 22, 2023 18:38:02 GMT
Exactly. They cast Lucie knowing she has a big fan base who'd want to see her, plus let's not forget she pulled out of the Waitress tour for it. It was a big deal and was sold as such, being all over the socials. She's one of the biggest "names" they'd had in the role for a while, and fans are allowed to be disappointed not to see her when they booked on the basis of her appearing. Yes Joe Public won't know either way, but Wicked fans are a loyal/intense breed and are significant in number, so there will have been a lot of people who felt let down by her patchy attendance (myself included).
It also seems to the only job in the world where it's fine to only turn up for 50% of the time (for whatever the reasons may be) and have someone else cover for you. In most jobs you'd be moved to a different position or asked to leave! 🤣
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Post by theshez on Mar 22, 2023 18:56:43 GMT
Letting Lucie do on average 4 shows a week for an entire year? But I read in this forum that she averaged 65% of shows. I do not have as much theatre experience as you or some here but that sounds like a good rate to me and more than some others who have performed . I think of people like Connie Fisher who burned their voices as they performed too much. I can’t imagine many people being able to do 8 shows a week every week without damage. It’s a skilled job and an artist needs to protect their voice. I know I was lucky and caught Lucie every one of the 5 times I went and Helen three times. I do think I would have been disappointed to not see her. But perhaps it is the expectation that is wrong not the artist and theatres should be more transparent. I do understand why they may not wish to be re ticket sales etc. I see no easy answers. I wonder if Lucie gets more stick than others because she already famous and I am not sure that’s fair if it is the case. Did anyone download the delete sentimental men podcast? |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 22, 2023 18:57:34 GMT
Waiting for someone to tell robertb213 to complain to the theatre if he’s that bothered 🙂 |
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23 posts
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Post by strallenfan on Mar 22, 2023 20:14:40 GMT
Not really because you’re buying a ticket to see the show. You have no idea the reasons Lucie was so patchy with her attendance - and more to the point you literally have no right to know. Her medical history is her own business, not yours. I don’t understand why everyone’s up in arms about it in this day and age.. 🤷🏼♀️ Because ‘in this day & age’ musical theatre is as much about its stars as it is about the shows. Social media has been utilised to drum up frenzies at every cast change. People have a right to expect to see the faces used to advertise the show. The show is sold on it. Blah blah sickness & holiday…blah blah medical privacy. Either go back to casting fabulous nobodies and CREATING stars or act with a bit of integrity and admit whatever voice saving schedule has been agreed. But as several people have pointed out to you numerous times, the cast are not billed above the title. Therefore you are not buying a ticket to see the cast you are buying a ticket to see the show. I’m not saying that people can’t be disappointed they didn’t get to see someone, I’m saying the same people moaning that Lucie only did a certain percentage of shows doesn’t mean that the show was wrong for not clarifying what was going on there. Someone else mentioned in other jobs that person would get fired or moved positions if they were on half the time. It genuinely depends.. like I keep saying over and over: we don’t know what issues Lucie was facing during Wicked. She could have a chronic health condition or suffering with mental health issues and therefore was only able to do a certain amount of shows a week. The producers not only do not need to clarify this, it would actually be against the law to share an employees medical issues without the permission of the employee. And also it would be discriminatory if it was such medical issues to not employ or to replace said employee. My kinder surprise comment was a joke btw but I’m glad everyone took it so seriously lol. |
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Post by robertb213 on Mar 22, 2023 20:43:58 GMT
Waiting for someone to tell robertb213 to complain to the theatre if he’s that bothered 🙂 I actually didn't mind, Amy took over after "Popular" so I got my first 'Witch Switch' 😁 So to be fair she was probably ill. Doesn't explain the other 51 weeks. But it's all good, I'm over it, and she's still wonderfully talented. |
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Post by robertb213 on Mar 22, 2023 20:48:31 GMT
Because ‘in this day & age’ musical theatre is as much about its stars as it is about the shows. Social media has been utilised to drum up frenzies at every cast change. People have a right to expect to see the faces used to advertise the show. The show is sold on it. Blah blah sickness & holiday…blah blah medical privacy. Either go back to casting fabulous nobodies and CREATING stars or act with a bit of integrity and admit whatever voice saving schedule has been agreed. But as several people have pointed out to you numerous times, the cast are not billed above the title. Therefore you are not buying a ticket to see the cast you are buying a ticket to see the show. I’m not saying that people can’t be disappointed they didn’t get to see someone, I’m saying the same people moaning that Lucie only did a certain percentage of shows doesn’t mean that the show was wrong for not clarifying what was going on there. Someone else mentioned in other jobs that person would get fired or moved positions if they were on half the time. It genuinely depends.. like I keep saying over and over: we don’t know what issues Lucie was facing during Wicked. She could have a chronic health condition or suffering with mental health issues and therefore was only able to do a certain amount of shows a week. The producers not only do not need to clarify this, it would actually be against the law to share an employees medical issues without the permission of the employee. And also it would be discriminatory if it was such medical issues to not employ or to replace said employee. My kinder surprise comment was a joke btw but I’m glad everyone took it so seriously lol. You're not "pointing anything out" to us, we're all aware of the "you paid for Wicked, you saw Wicked" argument. We're just saying that one of the leading reasons that people book certain shows is to see their favourite performers, so they're allowed to be disappointed when they're not on, that's all. |
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Post by newda on Mar 22, 2023 20:51:27 GMT
Listening to the Sentimental Men podcast mentioned here a while ago, in the Kerry Ellis episode even she said it was a hard gig, shouldn't be an eight show week, and that she had months/weeks where she was on and didn't feel she could give it her all.
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Post by Nelly on Mar 22, 2023 21:03:22 GMT
But as several people have pointed out to you numerous times, the cast are not billed above the title. Therefore you are not buying a ticket to see the cast you are buying a ticket to see the show. I’m not saying that people can’t be disappointed they didn’t get to see someone, I’m saying the same people moaning that Lucie only did a certain percentage of shows doesn’t mean that the show was wrong for not clarifying what was going on there. Someone else mentioned in other jobs that person would get fired or moved positions if they were on half the time. It genuinely depends.. like I keep saying over and over: we don’t know what issues Lucie was facing during Wicked. She could have a chronic health condition or suffering with mental health issues and therefore was only able to do a certain amount of shows a week. The producers not only do not need to clarify this, it would actually be against the law to share an employees medical issues without the permission of the employee. And also it would be discriminatory if it was such medical issues to not employ or to replace said employee. My kinder surprise comment was a joke btw but I’m glad everyone took it so seriously lol. You're not "pointing anything out" to us, we're all aware of the "you paid for Wicked, you saw Wicked" argument. We're just saying that one of the leading reasons that people book certain shows is to see their favourite performers, so they're allowed to be disappointed when they're not on, that's all. Being disappointed is one thing, I totally get that and we’ve all been there I’m sure. Ironically I was left disappointed (until the show started) when I first saw Waitress to catch Katharine McPhee and it was Lucie Jones on in her place that they’d drafted in before she officially started. But some people acting like there’s this big conspiracy / stitch up going on is a bit baffling? Not suggesting you have done that but others have implied it. I really don’t think there’s that much in it and ultimately like I and other have said, surely the majority of people going to see the show won’t care or probably even notice. I’m certain the company manager isn’t having a laugh every week going hahahah this is hilarious who shall we call this week to come back this week. |
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Post by danb on Mar 22, 2023 21:19:41 GMT
I think they are referring specifically to decisions that must have been made in advance, regarding when Lucie would go on but without publicising it. It is duplicitous and has caused all of ‘this’. As Robert says, we’re all intelligent enough to see the 360 degrees of the situation, but don’t have to like it.
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Post by strallenfan on Mar 22, 2023 22:17:54 GMT
But as several people have pointed out to you numerous times, the cast are not billed above the title. Therefore you are not buying a ticket to see the cast you are buying a ticket to see the show. I’m not saying that people can’t be disappointed they didn’t get to see someone, I’m saying the same people moaning that Lucie only did a certain percentage of shows doesn’t mean that the show was wrong for not clarifying what was going on there. Someone else mentioned in other jobs that person would get fired or moved positions if they were on half the time. It genuinely depends.. like I keep saying over and over: we don’t know what issues Lucie was facing during Wicked. She could have a chronic health condition or suffering with mental health issues and therefore was only able to do a certain amount of shows a week. The producers not only do not need to clarify this, it would actually be against the law to share an employees medical issues without the permission of the employee. And also it would be discriminatory if it was such medical issues to not employ or to replace said employee. My kinder surprise comment was a joke btw but I’m glad everyone took it so seriously lol. You're not "pointing anything out" to us, we're all aware of the "you paid for Wicked, you saw Wicked" argument. We're just saying that one of the leading reasons that people book certain shows is to see their favourite performers, so they're allowed to be disappointed when they're not on, that's all. So if you’re all aware why do we keep having the same debate 😂 I said you were allowed to be disappointed. If Alexia isn’t on when I drag myself back to London, I might just turn around and go back home 👀 No one is saying that you can’t be disappointed but I think quite a few of us don’t quite get the outrage that has been posted on the thread previously (not necessarily by you). |
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Post by sb on Mar 22, 2023 22:21:13 GMT
Alexia was back this evening it seems Both Alexia and Lucy were back tonight, Seems like it was something to do with Covid. Was Lucy definitely on last night? I’ve seen Sam and Alexia tagged in curtain call videos! |
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Post by starlight92 on Mar 22, 2023 23:17:30 GMT
Listening to the Sentimental Men podcast mentioned here a while ago, in the Kerry Ellis episode even she said it was a hard gig, shouldn't be an eight show week, and that she had months/weeks where she was on and didn't feel she could give it her all. Yeah, whereas in the (now deleted) Sentimental Men podcast with Lucie, she said she only went on when she felt she could give 100% (or words to that effect). So she prioritised quality over quantity which I guess is fair enough, although it definitely did disappoint a lot of people. Is it better to see Wicked with a cover Elphaba, or Wicked with Lucie giving a subpar performance for whatever reason? For Joe Public the former is preferable, but for Lucie fans maybe they'd prefer the latter 🤷. The producers should have announced a regular Alternate Elphaba when it became clear Lucie couldn't do the regular eight shows, then at least they'd save some disappointment (and maybe Lucie would have been able to sustain more seven-show weeks). |
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Post by deej4life on Mar 23, 2023 0:04:14 GMT
I often wonder why there is such an aversion to implementing an alternate system for Elphaba?
Many other shows in the West End and on Broadway have alternates for some of their leading roles. This ensures the lead is well rested and not pushed to their limit. Seemingly, this doesn't negatively impact their ticket sales.
Elphaba has also had many formal and informal alternate arrangements over the years...
Amanda Harrison in Australia had Jemma Rix as her alternate. Once Jemma became lead, her standbys would typically perform two shows per week.
Willemijn Verkaik had an alternate perform two shows per week in her non-English speaking productions of Wicked.
Jodie Steele was listed as alternate for Jackie Hughes on the Asia leg of the International Tour, and would usually perform two or more shows a week.
Even Jessica Vosk unofficially took a matinee off each weekend when she was on the 2NT in the US.
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Post by theshez on Mar 23, 2023 0:10:28 GMT
I honestly don’t think we should be discussing @health@ issues I don’t think Lucie performed any fewer shows than many other Elphaba’s. It’s just that she has been open about it and is more famous than some so it attracts more attention . I wish she had chosen to extend her contact and stay longer. I wish Helen had too tbh. If that had been not possible then that would be disappointing. I think their dynamic was great and lifted the show. That’s not to say I would not be disappointed if I tuned up to find out the main lead I had gone to see was not performing. Of course I would.. Frankly though I think 8 shows a week is just too much. Just my view. My hope is both will come back one day. I am not @in the know@ about the ‘company’ being disappointed etc and I think without evidence that’s debatable. All I do know is her fame and personality and charisma brought the show alive with Helen and I am please for that. By the way I had never encountered either Helen or Lucie before seeing Wicked so I am not strictly a @fan girl@. But I do appreciate good acting in musicals. I also respect that other ma may view things differently.
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Post by Being Alive on Mar 23, 2023 0:27:18 GMT
If I turned up to my job 65% of the time I was meant to be there I'd get sacked...just to put this all into perspective.
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Post by danb on Mar 23, 2023 6:13:21 GMT
If I turned up to my job 65% of the time I was meant to be there I'd get sacked...just to put this all into perspective. What? Your dream job that you know you’ll only be doing for a year? 😂🤦♂️ |
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Post by shady23 on Mar 23, 2023 6:37:31 GMT
In theory, yes, but in reality that just doesn't happen. Very rarely would a performer say they are 100% and a show would not accept people calling just because they felt they weren't at the very top of their game.
So long as you don't have a bad injury, lost your voice etc you go on. You just need to be able to give ENOUGH.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 23, 2023 7:00:12 GMT
You're not "pointing anything out" to us, we're all aware of the "you paid for Wicked, you saw Wicked" argument. We're just saying that one of the leading reasons that people book certain shows is to see their favourite performers, so they're allowed to be disappointed when they're not on, that's all. 😂 I said you were allowed to be disappointed. If Alexia isn’t on when I drag myself back to London, I might just turn around and go back home 👀 No one is saying that you can’t be disappointed but I think quite a few of us don’t quite get the outrage that has been posted on the thread previously (not necessarily by you). Because it’s a theatre discussion forum and we’re discussing it. Also, the matter of who is on/not on is the only point of interest keeping this thread alive at the moment and that has been for some time. If you want to introduce a new Wicked topic the thread is here, we’re here, go for it. |
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Post by strallenfan on Mar 23, 2023 7:45:22 GMT
If I turned up to my job 65% of the time I was meant to be there I'd get sacked...just to put this all into perspective. Again, not always the case for EVERY job. There is such thing as sick pay, phased return and reasonable adjustments. You don’t know that she was just “not turning up” and that’s why I think this whole discussion is stupid. |
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Post by strallenfan on Mar 23, 2023 7:47:08 GMT
So if you’re all aware why do we keep having the same debate 😂 I said you were allowed to be disappointed. If Alexia isn’t on when I drag myself back to London, I might just turn around and go back home 👀 No one is saying that you can’t be disappointed but I think quite a few of us don’t quite get the outrage that has been posted on the thread previously (not necessarily by you). Because it’s a theatre discussion forum and we’re discussing it. Also, the matter of who is on/not on is the only point of interest keeping this thread alive at the moment and that has been for some time. If you want to introduce a new Wicked topic the thread is here, we’re here, go for it. Lucie isn’t even the show now and Alexia is back from what clearly seemed like a Covid breakout. There’s plenty to keep the thread alive with a brand new cast. |
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