Hadestown - NT / Lyric Theatre

[n2n]

Hey there, American here. I haven't had the chance to see Hadestown yet, but it has become my favorite musical over the last few months. I've been following it as much as I can through audio bootlegs (I know boots are divisive, so I ask that you don't chastise me for this––it's my only way of accessing the newer incarnations of the show, and I absolutely intend to see it when I get the chance). Yesterday, I found an audio for the first preview from London, so while I can't comment as to the staging itself, I'll give my thoughts as to that:

Reeve Carney is much of the problem with the current production. He is a very talented performer, but this musical is not right for him. If you listen to Damon Daunno on the 2016 Off-Broadway recording, his clear, powerful falsetto gives the Epic songs (the "la la la" ones mentioned above) a gorgeous quality that really does make them feel divine. In a more gruff, raspy, rock-oriented voice, it loses that, and it doesn't feel genuine that this song is something from the gods that can change the world.

I agree that the new openings to the Epics need work. I like that the show is making an effort to more strongly link the couples through the music, but the phrases are too short and replace stronger lyrics. However, I am glad to see that Epic II/III (depending on the version––the second act one in front of Hades) lost the pretty, but unfortunately gay-erasing lyric about a man's heart only loving a woman.

Eva Noblezada seems quite strong on the audio, though I can't speak to her physical embodiment of the character. I like her much more than TV Carpio from Edmonton, though Nabiyah Be still seems to be the best embodiment of the character, both due to her grit and her unique vocal coloration.

I agree that Wait For Me needs to end the act. However, I don't think Why We Build The Wall should open the second act; that would necessitate the cutting of Our Lady of the Underground, as it is outside the world of the story, and I think that would be a shame. It's a wonderful song that fleshes out life in Hadestown, and gives a great moment for Persephone. Instead, I would put "Wall" right *before* Wait For Me, with the little tag after that ends the act coming after Wait For Me. That would set up Eurydice's dire state and make Orpheus' descent far more urgent, without disrupting the narrative flow. And having the tag be after the song would help show the simultaneity of the lovers' actions.

I haven't seen photos of the London set yet, but I will say that I think it is probably intentional that the show does not have a specific setting. It's supposed to be very allegorical and mythological in nature; in tying it too strongly to any one era, it loses its universality. This speaks for the lyrics as well––getting too literal undermines the purpose of the show. You have to remember that this show is not a traditional book musical, and if you go in expecting one, you're not going to walk away with the right experience in tow. I don't know what could be done to better articulate this, though––perhaps having it mentioned in the Playbill once it hits Broadway (since Londoners don't get free pamphlets) might help.

I'm disappointed to hear that there are problems with the staging. I think the show has some brilliant writing, and it's worrying that it might not be captured perfectly on stage. Hopefully Chavkin is able to continue fine-tuning her work and addressing these issues; she's been crucial to the development of the show for the stage, so I can't imagine they'll bring in a different director.

[pianowithsam]

[pianowithsam]

I know this isn't exactly related to the National Theatre's "Hadestown", but I think is incredibly inspiring to watch.

[steven22]

Any suggestions where to sit at the national?

[Deleted]

Welcome n2n - If you search Hadestown on Instragram you'll see many pictures from the audience of the set/stage. Its all exposed pre-show and brightly light (with lots of shadows to boot), so not littered with mid-show covert snaps.
I get the point about about not being too specific with its setting; but if thats the case, why's there a jukebox and telephone booth on stage? Both surplus to requirement. They've tried to keep it a malleable playing space but then provided these really specific items that create an assumption of location.

[n2n]

Thanks—made the account just to post in this thread, haha.

Found some good photos on twitter, and now I understand the confusion. The set is quite a different direction than the previous two versions, which had an ambiguous wall made of steel pipe-like beams, and a giant dead tree. It’s a gorgeous set, but very different from my expectations based on those productions.

During Wait For Me, did lanterns fly in? That was supposedly a really cool feature in Edmonton and I’m curious whether that was scrapped with the new setting.

[Rukaya]

Nov 10, 2018 8:37:34 GMT n2n said:

Thanks—made the account just to post in this thread, haha.

Found some good photos on twitter, and now I understand the confusion. The set is quite a different direction than the previous two versions, which had an ambiguous wall made of steel pipe-like beams, and a giant dead tree. It’s a gorgeous set, but very different from my expectations based on those productions.

During Wait For Me, did lanterns fly in? That was supposedly a really cool feature in Edmonton and I’m curious whether that was scrapped with the new setting.

Can confirm that they flew! It was really cool

[stageysteven]

Nov 9, 2018 14:30:22 GMT @remark said:

Oh, also. Something they need to fix for the Broadway run. The overall stage design is great in the theatre and it really works for the piece but on a smartphone it doesn't photograph well.
This may sound like a trivial point (and it shouldn't be the case) but in this age of social media and hashtaggery I think designers needs to be considering how stages look on smartphones for instagramming etc.
Look at the simplicity of Company. You get in the auditorium and you've got a big black wall and the word Company backlit. Thats all people can photograph and its everywhere, all over instagram, and even those inept at smartphones can take a good photo of it.
The set of Hadestown is incredibly detailed and looks amazing, but takes some real work to get a decent smartphone photo. Again this comes back to lighting, its lit too bright to begin with.

Hahahaha... the fact that one of your reasons for disliking the production is because the curtain set doesn’t photograph well, is an absolute joke! I do hope it’s total sarcasm, if it isn’t, I feel genuinely sorry for you. You shouldn’t even be taking pictures in the theatre, anyway?! It’s a unwritten rule of any theatre. Unless that passage of text is meant to be said in jest, you are an idiot.

A message to any theatregoers, turn your phone off the moment you enter a theatre. Respect the theatre. It’s not something to be “hashtagged” or “instagrammed”. If someone wants to see a show, they should buy a ticket and get their arse on a seat. Simple. If they can’t afford it? Tough. It’s not like tickets are outrageously expensive. People like that have started to erode away at the magic of the theatre. If you are expecting a phone call or “what if there’s an emergency?!” Suck it up or don’t go!

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2018 10:03:16 GMT stageysteven said:

Nov 9, 2018 14:30:22 GMT @remark said:

Oh, also. Something they need to fix for the Broadway run. The overall stage design is great in the theatre and it really works for the piece but on a smartphone it doesn't photograph well.
This may sound like a trivial point (and it shouldn't be the case) but in this age of social media and hashtaggery I think designers needs to be considering how stages look on smartphones for instagramming etc.
Look at the simplicity of Company. You get in the auditorium and you've got a big black wall and the word Company backlit. Thats all people can photograph and its everywhere, all over instagram, and even those inept at smartphones can take a good photo of it.
The set of Hadestown is incredibly detailed and looks amazing, but takes some real work to get a decent smartphone photo. Again this comes back to lighting, its lit too bright to begin with.

Hahahaha... the fact that one of your reasons for disliking the production is because the curtain set doesn’t photograph well, is an absolute joke! I do hope it’s total sarcasm, if it isn’t, I feel genuinely sorry for you. You shouldn’t even be taking pictures in the theatre, anyway?! It’s a unwritten rule of any theatre. Unless that passage of text is meant to be said in jest, you are an idiot.

A message to any theatregoers, turn your phone off the moment you enter a theatre. Respect the theatre. It’s not something to be “hashtagged” or “instagrammed”. If someone wants to see a show, they should buy a ticket and get their arse on a seat. Simple. If they can’t afford it? Tough. It’s not like tickets are outrageously expensive. People like that have started to erode away at the magic of the theatre. If you are expecting a phone call or “what if there’s an emergency?!” Suck it up or don’t go!

Well now I don't think there's any need to start calling people an "idiot" for what was a harmless comment, no matter how much you disagree with them. I think an apology would perhaps be the decent thing to do on this occasion as I imagine you weren't intending to seem so disrespectful as maybe it comes across in writing.

[Deleted]

Not wanting to row about it stageysteven but I didn't say I disliked the production. In fact if you pull your head out your arse and read my other posts, I am quite a fan.
There is no jest or sarcasm imparted with this suggestion.

Welcome to 2018. People use their phones and this can be utilised in a positive way socially. If you can't recognise that then conversely I feel sorry for you.
No-one that I saw had their phones out during the performance, thankfully, phone-use during a performance I am vehemently against.
However, if you look at the online social demographic of Hadestown supporters, there are a lot of millenials and sub-30s, talking and interacting online (tweeting, instagramming, youtubing) about the show. A large percentage from the US who won't get to the show in the UK but have a remarkable interest in it. Their only way of finding out more is social networking online.
Some people live for theatre. It is their absolute passion and this passion compels them to spread their love for this art form. In this day and age they do so in the most effective form of communication there is, online. It is an incredibly ignorant opinion to suggest that theatre is not something to be talked about. To infer that people should buy a ticket, attend and then never speak of it again is ludicrous.

I go to a lot of theatre, I get into the auditorium early, sit down and (unless there are visual signs asking for no photography, which I will respect) I will take a photo of the stage for my own records. It's easier and much more effective to have a photo in a digital album than retain hundreds of paper tickets. Im also a massive geek so will use that to zoom in on some technical elements, to work out what brand of lighting fixture/speaker etc is being used.
I resent your implication that people like me have "stared to erode away the magic of theatre".

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2018 10:28:08 GMT @remark said:

Not wanting to row about it stageysteven but I didn't say I disliked the production. In fact if you pull your head out your arse and read my other posts, I am quite a fan.
There is no jest or sarcasm imparted with this suggestion.

Welcome to 2018. People use their phones and this can be utilised in a positive way socially. If you can't recognise that then conversely I feel sorry for you.
No-one that I saw had their phones out during the performance, thankfully, phone-use during a performance I am vehemently against.
However, if you look at the online social demographic of Hadestown supporters, there are a lot of millenials and sub-30s, talking and interacting online (tweeting, instagramming, youtubing) about the show. A large percentage from the US who won't get to the show in the UK but have a remarkable interest in it. Their only way of finding out more is social networking online.
Some people live for theatre. It is their absolute passion and this passion compels them to spread their love for this art form. In this day and age they do so in the most effective form of communication there is, online. It is an incredibly ignorant opinion to suggest that theatre is not something to be talked about. To infer that people should buy a ticket, attend and then never speak of it again is ludicrous.

I go to a lot of theatre, I get into the auditorium early, sit down and (unless there are visual signs asking for no photography, which I will respect) I will take a photo of the stage for my own records. It's easier and much more effective to have a photo in a digital album than retain hundreds of paper tickets. Im also a massive geek so will use that to zoom in on some technical elements, to work out what brand of lighting fixture/speaker etc is being used.
f*** you for implying that people like me have "stared to erode away the magic of theatre".

Hmmm, I'm not entirely sure you've helped the situation from turning into an "argument" either with some of your choice words.

We all disagree on many things here but (and this isn't actually directed at anyone in particular) can we all agree that being a little kinder and using more respectful language towards each other makes the discussion more interesting for everyone and the board a nicer place? There's enough dreadful theatre out there to drag our moods down without it extending here too. By all means disagree, that's part of the joy of debate, but if it's going to result in insults being hurled back and forth then maybe it's better to do that via personal messages instead?

I'll even promise to say something nice about Alexandra Burke if we do.

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2018 3:04:19 GMT steven22 said:

Any suggestions where to sit at the national?

I don't think I've ever had a bad view at The Nash to be honest.

[n1david]

Nov 10, 2018 10:48:31 GMT @ryan said:

Nov 10, 2018 3:04:19 GMT steven22 said:

Any suggestions where to sit at the national?

I don't think I've ever had a bad view at The Nash to be honest.

I have. It was looking at Light Shining in Buckinghamshire.

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2018 10:03:16 GMT stageysteven said:

You shouldn’t even be taking pictures in the theatre, anyway?! It’s a unwritten rule of any theatre.

Actually, it's a written rule at the Nash. Check the small print in your programme or free cast list, it says "in the auditorium, please, no smoking, photography, recording, or refreshments". That 'please' is awkward as hell but they're pretty clear - it's not just "don't take photos of the show", it's explicitly "don't take photos in the auditorium full-stop".

I think everyone else has the "wow that was kinda rude" part covered already...

[Deleted]

Yes @ryan I agree my initial response was perhaps a bit too bolshy, I did make some edits, but standpoints like this really trigger me. Apologies all.

However, ultimately, it's people with outlooks and opinions such as that presented at myself that have destroyed the music industry. It's the 'ignore it and it'll go away' approach as employed with the revolution of digital music.
With hindsight, if the music industry had responded appropriately to the likes of Napster perhaps musicians these day would actually earn a living off their record sales. Instead they put the blinkers on, sue-ed the wrong people and have created an environment unconducive to the value of art.
There are direct parallels from that situation then to the current choice of whether to embrace social media within theatre.
There is also a huge hypocrisy in coming onto an online forum smiting someone for suggesting that social media interaction should be a consideration of designers and producers.
The music industry has learnt this lesson - It's a shame others haven't - and now begun to embrace the smartphone revolution. To the point now that Mix Engineers actually reference music on devices like phones to ensure the audio sounds the best it can on all devices, and this is the point I'm suggesting that producers could look at.

Interesting @baemax - Didn't buy a programme or pickup a cast list. Maybe that makes me a bad theatre goer.

Anyway, this is the wrong place for that discussion.

Back to Hadestown.

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2018 8:03:11 GMT @remark said:

I get the point about about not being too specific with its setting; but if thats the case, why's there a jukebox and telephone booth on stage? Both surplus to requirement. They've tried to keep it a malleable playing space but then provided these really specific items that create an assumption of location.

 I’m guessing because they refer to the key themes of music and communication. The Spring Awakening set was similarly symbolic, as I recall.

EDIT: Just checked the set on twitter and can see a jukebox but not a telephone booth. Where should I be looking for it?

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2018 12:57:16 GMT @cardinalpirelli said:

Nov 10, 2018 8:03:11 GMT @remark said:

I get the point about about not being too specific with its setting; but if thats the case, why's there a jukebox and telephone booth on stage? Both surplus to requirement. They've tried to keep it a malleable playing space but then provided these really specific items that create an assumption of location.

 I’m guessing because they refer to the key themes of music and communication. The Spring Awakening set was similarly symbolic, as I recall.

Ding. That would make sense.
Reading about the history of Hadestown, the set was a lot more opulent, to the point of being distracting from the material so they reduced it considerably obviously in the process making the conscious decision to leave those items in situ.

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2018 12:57:16 GMT @cardinalpirelli said:

Nov 10, 2018 8:03:11 GMT @remark said:

I get the point about about not being too specific with its setting; but if thats the case, why's there a jukebox and telephone booth on stage? Both surplus to requirement. They've tried to keep it a malleable playing space but then provided these really specific items that create an assumption of location.

 I’m guessing because they refer to the key themes of music and communication. The Spring Awakening set was similarly symbolic, as I recall.

EDIT: Just checked the set on twitter and can see a jukebox but not a telephone booth. Where should I be looking for it?

Stage left, top of the small staircase.

Also are the musicians on stage themselves not an appropriate enough reference to the theme of music? [rhetorical]

[Steve]

I loved this, but I'm biased, as I love Anais Mitchell. It combines the cosy folky friendly we're-all-storytellers-in-a-bar Once aesthetic with a more mythic (and "Mythic") metaphor about the walls and falls we're all destined to make through life. While the drama fizzles in the first half, it (appropriately) catches fire in the second half, and I felt exhilarated by the end.

Some spoilers follow. . .

If you get a chance to see "Mythic" at Charing Cross before you see this, DO. This plays beautifully as a sequel, for those who have, adding unexpected resonances to the drama between, world-weary couple, Hades and Persephone (Patrick Page and Amber Gray) in the second half of this show. "Mythic" is the story of how a youthful love-struck Persephone follows Hades to the Underworld, so to find them in their dotage in this is like graduating from early Harry Potter to late Harry Potter;

For me, Eva Noblezada is gold, as she gives Eurydice an innocence coupled with inquisitiveness that empathetically embodies the Eve-in-the-garden-of-Eden prototype that the character represents. She made me care about her character though she has little textual characterisation to work with.

Reeve Carney fares worse, in the first half, only because he has nothing character-wise to work with. This is the result of the intrinsic catch-22 of mythic storytelling: whereby the simplicity and universality of the myth trumps characterisation.

The same problem befell Tom Cruise in Ridley Scott's myth movie "Legend," where, given no character to work with, Cruise came off the most bland he ever has. Carney does considerably better than Cruise, though, lifted by his young Bryan Adams hoarse rock rasp, which really kicks into gear in the second half.

The masterpiece of a song "Why we build the wall" is coincidentally topical these days, and is played understandably grimly, with the denizens of Hadestown looking like Democrats suffering under the rule of Hades' wall-building Trump. But I think I preferred the hazy loving delivery of Anais Mitchell herself, who duetting with Irish singer, Wallis Bird, and backed by her psychedelic Young Man band, at the Lexington in 2012, made building the wall sound like crazy raucous communal fun. After all, the key to Trump is that his followers love both him and his wall, and I prefer the brainwashed counterpoint of that to the moroseness we get here.

This mythmaking musical picks up feverishly in the second half, escalating in both passion and poignancy, with the final coda nailing it's life metaphor perfectly.

Throughout, there are wonderful performances, with Patrick Page's baritone powerful yet jaded, Andre De Shields experienced yet enthused, and the three Fates ever fabulous.

I loved this, and if the love story at the beginning were better characterised, I'd love it more, as I've never felt that specificity in characterisation hurt a story, not even essential and pure myths and fairy tales.

For Noblezada's emotively lost Eve-like Eurydice, for Anais Mitchell's timeless and brilliant folk compositions, for Amber Gray's ageless passion, for Patrick Page's boom and bust Hades, and for making the Olivier seem as communal as the pub-size Lexington, I give this 4 stars.

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2018 13:40:29 GMT @remark said:

Nov 10, 2018 12:57:16 GMT @cardinalpirelli said:

 I’m guessing because they refer to the key themes of music and communication. The Spring Awakening set was similarly symbolic, as I recall.

EDIT: Just checked the set on twitter and can see a jukebox but not a telephone booth. Where should I be looking for it?

Stage left, top of the small staircase.

Also are the musicians on stage themselves not an appropriate enough reference to the theme of music? [rhetorical]

Something not to be used can also be a choice, maybe indicating the absence of something. I immediately thought ‘here’s a jukebox but this is not a jukebox musical’, having heard the music as an album first, just the connection I made. A phone that doesn’t ring? Makes me think about what is not being said, as in why does nobody call?

[pianowithsam]

Nov 10, 2018 10:52:13 GMT @theatremonkey said:

Nov 10, 2018 3:04:19 GMT steven22 said:

Any suggestions where to sit at the national?

My site has a lot. Basically, though, the Olivier theatre sightlines are good, and it just depends what you want to spend and whether you prefer being close for faces or an overall view. Main tips are that stalls rows B and C don't have much legroom, which is part of the reason they are cheaper. Sometimes, the side blocks in the stalls, if you are a long way out in the front few rows get a bit of a dud view as well. In the circle, the back corners are a fair way back and quite steep, while the middle of the circle doesn't always get the best sound.

Going towards the end of the run.
We're seated D55 & D56.

Any insight into our view?

[herculesmulligan]

Well I enjoyed this but didn’t love it. I’m glad I saw it but did t find it that groundbreaking or different or exceptional. I can’t quite put my finger on why. There were moments in the first 10 minutes where I got excited and thought, ‘this is going to be great’ but then. It wasn’t. It felt like it was treading water for a long time before anything happened.

Plus points were that there is some exceptional music and staging, especially towards the end of act 1, there’s some wonderful choreography and some great casting, especially the Fates, Hades and narrator whose character name I’ve forgotten. Also plus points for diversity and disability casting. I thought it was excellent to see someone with a physical difference as part of the company. Oh and Eva is a delight to watch, a voice which effortlessly soars.

Problems lie with the music becoming very samey, the general story and book and some of the performances. Reeve who I’m sure is very talented just isn’t right for this. He is too wet, there’s not much going on with the character and he adds nothing to the weak book. I simply didn’t care about him, didn’t believe his love and found him incredibly annoying and bland. The way he ran, the face he made when he did the la la la bit (which he does a lot), the fact it sounds like he struggles to hit that note. He just wasn’t good enough for this. Same goes for Amber Gray who I felt like was giving it SO much that it became distracting and annoying. He drunk portrayal was straight out of a school play, she over played everything, never seemed to be still, over emphasised every mark, pulled too much focus and I felt like I just wanted her to do less and be more real. For example a moment towards the end of act 2 where she is crying, from my seats j could see she wasn’t but she still wiped her whole face many many times as if she was soaked in tears, it was all too much, not at all genuine and really turned me off. Which is a shame as she has a beautiful voice.

So in all, I did enjoy the show, would recommend it but I don’t see it having much of a life after this in its current state.

[Deleted]

Nov 11, 2018 7:51:45 GMT herculesmulligan said:

I thought it was excellent to see someone with a physical difference as part of the company. 

I also noted this. It was the fourth production in as many months that I had attended to do so. Soon I hope it will become the norm and comment won't even pass.

[stageysteven]

Nov 10, 2018 10:28:08 GMT @remark said:

Not wanting to row about it stageysteven but I didn't say I disliked the production. In fact if you pull your head out your arse and read my other posts, I am quite a fan.
There is no jest or sarcasm imparted with this suggestion.

Welcome to 2018. People use their phones and this can be utilised in a positive way socially. If you can't recognise that then conversely I feel sorry for you.
No-one that I saw had their phones out during the performance, thankfully, phone-use during a performance I am vehemently against.
However, if you look at the online social demographic of Hadestown supporters, there are a lot of millenials and sub-30s, talking and interacting online (tweeting, instagramming, youtubing) about the show. A large percentage from the US who won't get to the show in the UK but have a remarkable interest in it. Their only way of finding out more is social networking online.
Some people live for theatre. It is their absolute passion and this passion compels them to spread their love for this art form. In this day and age they do so in the most effective form of communication there is, online. It is an incredibly ignorant opinion to suggest that theatre is not something to be talked about. To infer that people should buy a ticket, attend and then never speak of it again is ludicrous.

I go to a lot of theatre, I get into the auditorium early, sit down and (unless there are visual signs asking for no photography, which I will respect) I will take a photo of the stage for my own records. It's easier and much more effective to have a photo in a digital album than retain hundreds of paper tickets. Im also a massive geek so will use that to zoom in on some technical elements, to work out what brand of lighting fixture/speaker etc is being used.
I resent your implication that people like me have "stared to erode away the magic of theatre".

Oh dear. Sit down.

[kiwi]

So I managed to get to see this last night and I LOVED it. I've been obsessed with the off broadway album for ages so I was super excited for it and it didn't disappoint. I agree with what others here have said though, Wait for me needs to be the act break number, Reeve Carney doesn't quite work and theres too much on the spot running. But even without those changes I had a fantastic time and think it may be one of my favourite shows of the year.