Six the Musical - Arts / Lyric / Vaudeville

[hitmewithurbethshot]

It's hardly sour grapes at not getting the theatre they expected, a quick look at the Nimax theatres website and you can see the difference in accessibility for the Apollo & Vaudeville Theatres is staggering.

Apollo: Platform lift that can accomodate up to 300kg, full accessible toilet in the stalls
Vaudeville: Stair climber with max. weight of 190kg that has to be pre-booked and the patron has to arrive 45 minutes prior to curtain, no accessible toilets but an escort offered to the one at the hotel down the road

Also, it's not like your average Joe Bloggs disabled theatre goer has any power or say in how theatres are run and their accessibility, their only option is to draw attention to it online and hope enough people take notice

[andrew]

People without access requirements having an opinion on which theatre is more accessible than the other based on toilet cubicles' size is peak ignorance, to say the least. Another day, another embarrassment.

[TallPaul]

What is probably best described as a holding statement has now been released.

[Jon]

Jul 14, 2021 10:01:21 GMT JJShaw said:

Gosh you're right, lots of people are very upset. Seeing that their access toilet isn't even in the building I can understand being annoyed at that and how that hasn't been sorted out sooner is bizarre and unacceptable. However people saying that they specifically chose a theatre that is inaccessible is just wrong and not really thinking something through.

I do hope that they are able to make the building more accessible before opening, but at the same time people do have to realise A) London theatres are extremely old and protected Grade 2 listed, and B) its a business, this show is a cash cow but only in the right venue, and the Vaudeville is a perfect step up from the Arts but not too big like the Lyric at full capacity. I really don't think a producer is looking and the few potential theatres to transfer their show into and going "hmm but is it accessible? Our show is all about that!" Sadly not I think. But I am hopeful that they are able to try and fix some issues, perhaps a pass-door to the Adelphi?

I imagine Six had limited options theatre wise since most are booked up, Nica Burns took the decision of putting Jamie on hiatus in order for Six and Magic Goes Wrong to stay put in her theatres, I'm not sure if another theatre operator would have been as generous.

[dontdreamit]

Jul 14, 2021 12:28:09 GMT Dawnstar said:

Jul 14, 2021 11:15:40 GMT FairyGodmother said:

I think there are some rose tinted glasses going on.

The Arts Theatre: 1 wheelchair space, 1 or 2 transfer seats (circle)

Vaudeville: 2 wheelchair spaces, all left hand aisle seats suitable for transfer (stalls)

At the Vaudeville, the toilet situation isn't great, and some larger/heavier chairs can't access the stalls to be seated. But I think it could actually accommodate more manual wheelchair users than the Arts.

(And I have looked at this at other theatres before because we used to go with my grandma who can only walk a couple of steps — I'd be quite confident that with a phone call to the box office we'd be ok at either.)

Is there something about this show that attracts a large number of physically disabled audience members? When Mischief announced their year-long residency at the Vaudeville back in 2019 I don't recall seeing any comments online complaining that the venue wasn't very accessible for wheelchairs. In terms of loos, the loos at the Arts are at stalls level so I don't see them being very accessible, especially as they're some of the narrowest cubicles I can think of using in a theatre.

There is an accessible toilet on the circle level- I’ve used it when going to that theatre before.

[marob]

I wish the owners would move past the romanticised history of these places (as seen in Cameron Mackintosh’s letter to Boris) and give more thought to the customer’s comfort, because a lot of these theatres really aren’t fit for purpose anymore.

I guess they went with the Vaudeville because the proscenium wouldn’t be a problem with Six?

[FairyGodmother]

It sounds like at the Arts only the circle is accessible, and at the Vaudeville, only the stalls is (with limitations).

I imagine it might be the first show they've had where there's a young audience with a big social media fanbase? For other shows I expect individuals would have phoned the Box Office and talked through their options so we wouldn't have heard about it the same.

[christya]

I'm not really sure what solution people are looking for here? I can't imagine there were a lot of choices of theatre, and something is going to be at the Vaudeville - would they rather the show closed? Or is it that the theatre only lacks accessibility because nobody has invested, and it could be done with a bit of cash? It's a Grade II listed building so there will be limitations there. Short of buying up one of the properties either side (which might not be a terrible idea actually, if expensive) I can't see much they can do, and certainly not in two months.

[greeny11]

In all fairness, in this day and age, all theatres should be accessible to all - it shouldn't have taken a mega-hit musical to take up residence for this issue to be looked at.

[FairyGodmother]

I think some theatres are 'luckier' than others. For example, I did my degree in Edinburgh and often went to the King's Theatre. They take out over 100 seats every year so children who use wheelchairs can easily attend their relaxed pantomime performance. But they can only do that because they had the space for a platform lift.

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2021 15:28:57 GMT marob said:

I wish the owners would move past the romanticised history of these places (as seen in Cameron Mackintosh’s letter to Boris) and give more thought to the customer’s comfort, because a lot of these theatres really aren’t fit for purpose anymore.

I guess they went with the Vaudeville because the proscenium wouldn’t be a problem with Six?

It's not so much to do with the owners, it's planning law. You need a huge number of consents to do so much as change a light bulb in a Grade II listed building, and it's not as if additional floor space can be magicked out of thin air in somewhere as densely populated in terms of buildings as the Strand...

Access obviously needs to be improved, but people are being very naive about timescales and what is possible. It isn't possible do anything like what you are all demanding before Six opens in September. Logistically and legally that will inevitably take years. It's complicated and it can't be done overnight.

[Seriously]

I wonder why people haven't made this much noise with previous productions going in there?

[Mark]

Jul 14, 2021 17:00:03 GMT Seriously said:

I wonder why people haven't made this much noise with previous productions going in there?

I wonder this too. It's had some fairly high profile productions over the years.
Either way I do hope they're able to find a solution to the access to allow heavier wheelchairs in.

[FairyGodmother]

I would guess the people affected in the past phoned the box office and chatted through options with them. And I suspect in a lot of cases there's a way around it. Some people use a power chair day-to-day, but for a theatre trip could either go in a manual chair or transfer at the theatre before the steps — people who do para sports for example will be used to changing from chair to chair, and lots of people have separate 'home' and 'out' chairs. So if they spoke to the venue and came up with a way that was safe and they were happy to do, they've probably just gone and enjoyed the show!

[alison]

And for those people, that's not ideal but if they can find a way round it then good for them. For others, that's just not an option. I know two people, one of whom is a huge Six fan and has been following the show since the first London run, who use a power chair all the time and so are just unable to access the theatre at all. One of them really wanted to see the play Emilia when it was on but it was just physically impossible. And yes, they have complained in the past but like so much disability access, it was completely ignored by the abled majority.

The reason people are making such a noise now is probably because it is a more popular show with a younger audience. And yes, I do agree that sometimes the younger Twitter mob can go too far on calling for things to be cancelled, but in this case I don't think that's what most people are asking for - and they're not wrong. The fact that in 2021 this level of inaccessibility is allowed, and justified based on the structure of a building, is completely unacceptable. People should be more important than buildings, sorry not sorry!

[inthenose]

So why *is* this show so popular with people with disabilities? Looking through Twitter, there are several mentions of people with autism and other mental conditions as well as physical impairments. Disproportionately high, or at least disproportionately vocal about it.

Oh, and dozens of angry teenagers saying it should be cancelled and considering protesting at the theatre.

They look like you'd expect, use pronouns and have pride flags next to their names.

[fiyero]

Oh my gosh there’s a lot of anger in the Twitter posts and retweets.
They announce the show doesn’t have to close (basically) but he theatre has issues so people aren’t happy.
They announce they’ll open a conversation but people aren’t happy it’s an image of text.
They repost with alt text but people aren’t happy as they should t have to give ideas for free.

I genuinely feel bad for those with issues but as has been mentioned there is often a solution, even if not ideal. Keyboard warriors going hammer and tongs won’t help.
I hope nimax and the producers work out a better solution than going to a hotel nearby to use the loo but that is a solution that seems suitable with planning, Six has no interval so no rush with planning. The more important thing is physical access to the auditorium I think, my local big theatre built access at the side, not possible with the Vaudeville’s location I guess.

Please don’t think I’m belittling the issues some patrons have and will have but this is smelling of cancel culture right now!

[danb]

I kind of agree. For everybody with the actual issue I’m pretty sure there are 5 being appalled on their behalf. A solution/work round will be found.

[Phantom of London]

The Vaudeville was built in the days when patrons didn't need comfort provisions.

I am a disabled toilet (radar key holder) user, I don't however have any mobility issues and can manage stairs. This theatre has the worst provisions and especially now the other Gents with just 2 cubicles have now been made gender neutral, especially with my disability.

This theatre used to have an arrangement with the Adelphi Theatre next door to use their toilets. The theatre staff have always been very understanding and allowed me to use the toilet in the circle, when it has been closed and have used the Adelphi also.

Six is the ideal show has having no interval, goes someway to alleviating this issue.

The Vaudeville has a glorious auditorium, so wonder if there is a way they could build a decent theatre, whilst preserving the auditorium?

The Ambassador Theatre is a worse theatre. Also Broadway who theatres are more recent are much worse than the West End.

[Dawnstar]

Jul 14, 2021 18:12:11 GMT inthenose said:

So why *is* this show so popular with people with disabilities?

No one has yet answered my similar query a page back. I was under the impression that SiX had a younger audience than your average musical. Therefore I would have thought there would be a smaller proportion of audience members with limited mobility than, say, a Rodgers & Hammerstein revival which would attract an older audience who would be more likely to require wheelchairs or walking frames. (Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not saying their are no younger people requiring wheelchairs but that the proportion of people needing them increases with age.)

[Jon]

Short of demolishing the theatres which thankfully will not happen, making venues which are old more accessible is a challenge.

[Seriously]

Jul 14, 2021 19:46:02 GMT Dawnstar said:

Jul 14, 2021 18:12:11 GMT inthenose said:

So why *is* this show so popular with people with disabilities?

No one has yet answered my similar query a page back. I was under the impression that SiX had a younger audience than your average musical. Therefore I would have thought there would be a smaller proportion of audience members with limited mobility than, say, a Rodgers & Hammerstein revival which would attract an older audience who would be more likely to require wheelchairs or walking frames. (Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not saying their are no younger people requiring wheelchairs but that the proportion of people needing them increases with age.)

I would imagine a show about empowerment against the odds would strike a much stronger chord with disabled audience members. 

An older audience is probably more used to the reality that theatres built in the 1920s don't easily gain the infrastructure that modern audiences demand, and as they usually have more funds, perhaps they're happier to pay for a more expensive seat in the stalls rather than trek up to the higher levels?

[l0islane]

It seems like there possibly is a solution to the access part but they just aren't willing to invest the money? (see whole twitter thread)

[Dawnstar]

Jul 14, 2021 23:01:00 GMT Seriously said:

I would imagine a show about empowerment against the odds would strike a much stronger chord with disabled audience members. 

An older audience is probably more used to the reality that theatres built in the 1920s don't easily gain the infrastructure that modern audiences demand, and as they usually have more funds, perhaps they're happier to pay for a more expensive seat in the stalls rather than trek up to the higher levels?

Wouldn't all wheelchair spaces be at the same price irrespective of where in the theatre they were located? I thought most theatres had a standard price for access seats, and that that price was usually a fair bit lower than the top price tickets. Though that's only the impression I have from general theatregoing; as my problems are mental rather than physical I've never looked at access seats in detail.

[Seriously]

Jul 15, 2021 12:02:49 GMT Dawnstar said:

Jul 14, 2021 23:01:00 GMT Seriously said:

I would imagine a show about empowerment against the odds would strike a much stronger chord with disabled audience members. 

An older audience is probably more used to the reality that theatres built in the 1920s don't easily gain the infrastructure that modern audiences demand, and as they usually have more funds, perhaps they're happier to pay for a more expensive seat in the stalls rather than trek up to the higher levels?

Wouldn't all wheelchair spaces be at the same price irrespective of where in the theatre they were located? I thought most theatres had a standard price for access seats, and that that price was usually a fair bit lower than the top price tickets. Though that's only the impression I have from general theatregoing; as my problems are mental rather than physical I've never looked at access seats in detail.

Yes, but my post was answering someone who was talking about limited mobility and walking frames too.