527 posts
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Post by Hamilton Addict on Apr 4, 2016 11:52:29 GMT
Went to the red carpet at 5:00pm and even though they'd run out of wristbands, they still had space! Didn't have the best space, but I got 7 autographs so I was chuffed! Wasn't overly impressed with Michael Ball's presenting skills. I really think it's a shame that these awards are shown live everywhere but the UK! Wasn't keen on the performances either. Thought Denise Gough's speech wasn't right as she was saying that the other nominees didn't deserve their places. Really happy for Kinky Boots and Imelda Staunton! I don't know how Kinky Boots are doing with ticket sales, but I think this will boost sales. That's not what Gough said. She pointed out the lack of diversity in her category (and, personally, I'm not sure that Mcteer did deserve a nomination for this particular performance, the others much moreso) But didn't the Olivier's choose these people because they were good? Yes, there were other people who were good, but perhaps the Olivier committee felt that the nominees they chose gave better performances. It was a big accusation to make that the committee were racists, but perhaps she had some insider information, so I may be wrong. I didn't see any of the nominations in this category so I'm not 100% sure. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 12:08:27 GMT
That's not what Gough said. She pointed out the lack of diversity in her category (and, personally, I'm not sure that Mcteer did deserve a nomination for this particular performance, the others much moreso) But didn't the Olivier's choose these people because they were good? Yes, there were other people who were good, but perhaps the Olivier committee felt that the nominees they chose gave better performances. It was a big accusation to make that the committee were racists, but perhaps she had some insider information, so I may be wrong. I didn't see any of the nominations in this category so I'm not 100% sure. You're putting words into her mouth, and if you think that lack of diversity automatically equals racism you've not just got the wrong end of the stick you haven't got a stick. From Matt Trueman from our erstwhile hosts on that very subject, among other things. www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/news/matt-trueman-women-diversity-olivier-awards_40106.html?cid=homepage_news |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 12:09:49 GMT
Double Post
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Post by Mr Wallacio on Apr 4, 2016 12:16:48 GMT
I took a guess at 17 awards and got 14 correct.
This is in part due to coincidentally not seeing every nominated show in each category, and luckily having seen the ones which won, so my support went to those I had seen.
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527 posts
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Post by Hamilton Addict on Apr 4, 2016 12:33:00 GMT
But didn't the Olivier's choose these people because they were good? Yes, there were other people who were good, but perhaps the Olivier committee felt that the nominees they chose gave better performances. It was a big accusation to make that the committee were racists, but perhaps she had some insider information, so I may be wrong. I didn't see any of the nominations in this category so I'm not 100% sure. You're putting words into her mouth, and if you think that lack of diversity automatically equals racism you've not just got the wrong end of the stick you haven't got a stick. From Matt Trueman from our erstwhile hosts on that very subject, among other things. www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/news/matt-trueman-women-diversity-olivier-awards_40106.html?cid=homepage_newsI'm really sorry if it came across that I was putting words in her mouth, I did not mean it that way in the slightest, it's just how I perceived her message. As I said, I haven't seen any of these performances so I really don't know that much. I just feel if the performances the committee chose were good, they should be nominated, you can't just pick certain nominees to be diverse. Once again, really sorry that I worded my message wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 12:36:48 GMT
It's the canary in the mineshaft. The nominees were clearly all deserving, otherwise they wouldn't have been there, but if all of the nominees in a category are white, then doesn't that speak of a deeper problem regarding the stories being told? If theatre were more diverse in general (lord knows it's still got a way to go!) then odds would be greater of seeing a more diverse set of nominees. No one's saying there should be a quota of representation at the awards, or that well-deserving white women should be knocked out of the running to ensure there's space for a token woman of colour, but theatre is still enormously white and still has work to do. When this work is being done, then it will naturally filter through and the lists of nominees will become more diverse organically.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 12:37:24 GMT
I'm really sorry if it came across that I was putting words in her mouth, I did not mean it that way in the slightest, it's just how I perceived her message. As I said, I haven't seen any of these performances so I really don't know that much. I just feel if the performances the committee chose were good, they should be nominated, you can't just pick certain nominees to be diverse. Once again, really sorry that I worded my message wrong. The actual quote was hardly an accusatory call to arms - "In a year where we have seen progress made in racial diversity on our stages I'm just a bit sad that it hasn't been represented in the nominees...I'm taking Noma Dumezweni with me and Marianne Jean Baptiste and Sharon D Clarke your work is extraordinary and it has really inspired me." Given your username I'm sure you have a good understanding of the issues, no need to apologise. |
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Post by westendwendy on Apr 4, 2016 12:46:43 GMT
WHAT on earth is wrong with the BEST people get the nominations?
This race thing is getting out of hand!
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Post by couldileaveyou on Apr 4, 2016 12:51:28 GMT
It's the canary in the mineshaft. The nominees were clearly all deserving, otherwise they wouldn't have been there, but if all of the nominees in a category are white, then doesn't that speak of a deeper problem regarding the stories being told? Absolutely. Non-white actors have been recognized with nominations and victories in the musical categories (Badella, Dew, Henry) where they delivered outstanding performances because their shows allowed them to showcase their talent. The 4 plays nominated for "best new plays" had an all white cast (with the exception - in supporting roles - of People, Places and Things), so the point is not actors not nominated because they're not white, but plays that doesn't show diversity. |
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Post by talkstageytome on Apr 4, 2016 12:55:33 GMT
WHAT on earth is wrong with the BEST people get the nominations? This race thing is getting out of hand! The argument being that the best people don't necessarily get the nominations (or even the opportunity to audition for roles because of casting stipulations which alienate non-white actors). Trivialising a lack of diversity is a worryingly shortsighted move in my opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 12:56:13 GMT
Baemax and couldileaveyou hit it on the head there-it's a wider issue than the nominations, it's that we need a more diverse theatre from which to pick more diverse nominees. I didn't see everyone nominated but I feel confident most were deserving of a nomination based on strong performances. They are mostly white because our theatre is mostly white. One can't change without the other.
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7,251 posts
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Post by Jon on Apr 4, 2016 13:05:52 GMT
There's defiantly a lack of diversity when it comes to new plays but maybe it's because of the lack of non white writers writing plays for British theatre.
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527 posts
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Post by Hamilton Addict on Apr 4, 2016 13:07:16 GMT
I feel there needs to be more race neutral casting. The Olivier's would be more diverse, if given the chance. I don't see why casting directors don't do race neutral casting more often.
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Post by caa on Apr 4, 2016 13:15:18 GMT
With regard to the nominations I think it would have been very easy to have chosen a more diverse and if honest a better list of performers, the problem as Mark Shenton noted was that the committee had no say in the final nominations and because it is SOLT plus those theatres that pay to join the club, not every theatre gets represented.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 13:19:14 GMT
I suspect there's a BUNCH of non-white writers out there creating, but they need to be found, they need to be nurtured, they need to have their plays produced. It's a long process, and there's potential at every step of the process to make things better. Even as audience members we can do our part, making sure we see the Ma Raineys and the Les Blancses just as much as the next Ayckbourn revival (and we'd probably find it ineffably more satisfying too). And, y'know, even by having the conversations we're having. It's tiny, but it's in the right direction.  |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Apr 4, 2016 13:25:56 GMT
Because if a posh white person is rewarded with success then OBVIOUSLY it's because they're just plain better than all the underprivileged people whose work goes ignored. Yep, that's absolutely logical, winning an award means you are unquestionably objectively The Best.  ? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 13:26:14 GMT
There's certainly a need to stage more writing from diverse backgrounds, because 'colourblind' casting only goes so far-we also need to properly represent diversity in theatrical stories not just throw out a diverse cast in a Shakespeare production or two.
As Baemax says we can all play a part-when choosing between shows why not try and consciously pick the more diverse (this goes for gender diversity as well) because the age old 'audiences don't want it' argument can and will be trotted out otherwise. Before anyone jumps on it I'm not saying you MUST see plays because they are 'diverse' but how about when you're really on the fence about one or another picking the most diverse cast as a deciding factor? or as audiences deliberately broadening our horizons and helping to seek out plays from non-white writers etc etc.
No we aren't going to change it overnight but it's all a start right?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 13:32:03 GMT
And, of course, if we find ourselves in a position where people are going to listen to what we're saying - like Denise Gough did last night - speaking up about it. If you're in a position of privilege, then being a mouthpiece for those who are still not getting the recognition is a good way to be an ally. As is listening when people talk about it, rather than dismissing the subject (either consciously or otherwise).
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Post by westendwendy on Apr 4, 2016 14:48:47 GMT
With Lion King, Miss Siagon, Dreamgirls, Mormon, Beautiful, Memphis, BodyGuard, Thriller all having a large majority of BAME cast members - I don't think there is anything to worry about!
Dare I say this but aren't minorities meant to be a minority? Same with LGBTQI+ issues... I think UK theatre leads the way in both fields!
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Post by 49thand8th on Apr 4, 2016 14:54:25 GMT
Dare I say this but aren't minorities meant to be a minority? Same with LGBTQI+ issues... I think UK theatre leads the way in both fields! ...?! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 14:55:40 GMT
Wow...I actually have no words for that.
"Keep the minorities down, we don't want no equality here"
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1,016 posts
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Post by talkstageytome on Apr 4, 2016 14:59:58 GMT
Dare I say this but aren't minorities meant to be a minority? Same with LGBTQI+ issues... I think UK theatre leads the way in both fields! Oh dear. That's an... interesting... take on the issue.  Minorities may be 'a minority' in terms of numbers/population, but by no means does this mean that they should be sidelined. Seems like you're suggesting that UK theatre does it's bit by filling a quota, but tokenism is not the same as diversity! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 15:19:39 GMT
With Lion King, Miss Siagon, Dreamgirls, Mormon, Beautiful, Memphis, BodyGuard, Thriller all having a large majority of BAME cast members - I don't think there is anything to worry about! Dare I say this but aren't minorities meant to be a minority? Same with LGBTQI+ issues... I think UK theatre leads the way in both fields! This is what I mean about listening instead of dismissing. What we have here is a fine example of dismissive behaviour, and frankly I'm a little embarrassed to even be on the same board as someone who doesn't see the problem in making posts like this. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 15:31:34 GMT
Apart from anything else, I'm impressed that anyone thinks theatre leads the way in diversity; if you go to the theatre more than once in a blue moon and see a story in which white blokes aren't the main characters and drivers of narrative, you'd doing a lot better than me!
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Post by jaqs on Apr 4, 2016 15:56:20 GMT
The lack of diversity backstage, writing, direction, sound, lighting always seems to be glaring at award shows when the shortlist photos go up. But easy to forget about the rest of the time.
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