747 posts
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 15, 2017 19:45:59 GMT
I think it was the correct decision and she deserves credit for listening to the arguments and changing her mind! It was a woman playwright for heavens sake and it provided a strong voice for women on how they see/react to abusive relationships of all kinds! I saw it at Oxford and thought it added greatly to the debate about women's place in society and the power they do/do not have in life. Well done VF! It is not weak to change your mind when you have judged the arguments and listened...the world would be a better place if changing your mind was not always considered weak!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 20:09:49 GMT
Far too in thrall to middle class hand-wringers who wouldn't know a working class existence if it hit them, they really are tone deaf to such issues now. They managed to screw up Road, making it into a museum piece (at times, literally, in a glass box) with no warmth and little wit, but the nice, comfortable audience they have could remain so at a nice distance, so job done, I suppose.
Dunbar, if people don't know, spent her earliest years in a refuge because of a physically abusive father and was led into prostitution while still a child, it's not about 'voices being heard', it's about how those voices need to be forcibly taken away from that type of abuse - completely, not as part of a supposed 'debate'. Any amount of patronising about 'working class voices' doesn't cut it either, when they can't seem to find any contemporary working class writers and have to resort to a couple of eighties retreads to fill the gap. It became a cosy middle class ghetto under Cooke (really, one of the most depressing of regimes in a major British theatre) and now this crumbling in the face of people who've probably only seen a sink estate in a TV drama. I thought, for once, that they'd finally realised the above and might just be trying to recalibrate, but clearly not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 20:21:53 GMT
I spoke to her
You can all thank me
You will be seeing it in London
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406 posts
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Post by MrBunbury on Dec 15, 2017 20:39:33 GMT
I think it was the correct decision and she deserves credit for listening to the arguments and changing her mind! It was a woman playwright for heavens sake and it provided a strong voice for women on how they see/react to abusive relationships of all kinds! I saw it at Oxford and thought it added greatly to the debate about women's place in society and the power they do/do not have in life. Well done VF! It is not weak to change your mind when you have judged the arguments and listened...the world would be a better place if changing your mind was not always considered weak! I agree. Admitting that one is wrong is not so obvious (not that we see much of that on this forum :-)). They had not yet refunded my ticket so the RC wrote me that I can keep it for the original date. |
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923 posts
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Post by Snciole on Dec 15, 2017 20:45:12 GMT
I think ultimately Royal Court has to choose whether it is a theatre that puts on plays with a message or a social justice warrior that has its own agenda.
By cancelling it was a understandable decision if you believed Rita, Sue and Bob Too was MSC's work and not Dunbar, a woman who lived her work and is no longer here to remind people what it means.
The issue is the cancelling of Dunbar's worked looked like a censorship of her, and not a desperate white washing of MSC/OOJ's relationship of the Royal Court.
Even if it was worried about triggering then firstly not everyone is going to see this play and at least put on this two week production in London so people have the choice.
The decision was always undermined by the fact that this work was acceptable to be seen outside the Royal Court, which has become the subject when a conversation about harrasment in the industry needs to had and has been overshadowed
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923 posts
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Post by Snciole on Dec 15, 2017 20:49:40 GMT
There is something about this that leaves a nasty taste. Others have pointed out plays that complicate the debate and which were programmed during VF's "reign". I'll add another one: "The Nether". I believe this play, that imagines a virtual world where paedos are allowed to safely indulge their fantasies, even transferred to the West End. They might well say that they wouldn't programme such a play today and my question is "why not?" If indeed they wouldn't programme this play today it makes them complicit in what happened before the whole sexual harassment stuff came to light. If theatres are going to start censoring they'd better take a good look at themselves and their own culpability in the process. It was recently revived by Sedos amdram and the audience were mostly baffled. I like the play because it is so challenging. Theatre is not TV, you can protect people from being of ended by continuing to make tickets highly priced  |
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1,861 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Dec 15, 2017 23:26:43 GMT
The right decision, cancelling only hurt the cast crew and people who wanted to see the play, not the intended target.
Only issue I have booked another play on the original Saturday night as the refund has come through, will have to try for another night, have a feeling interest in the play will be high and if not sold out will definitely be now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 23:48:07 GMT
Public booking opens on Thu 21 Dec at 12noon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 1:03:44 GMT
Wait, what? She changed her mind?! I’m surprised but I think it is a good decision. It is not going to be easy because the play is problematic, but they just need to hold their nerve and be prepared to defend Dunbar’s work and legacy.
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1,064 posts
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Post by bellboard27 on Dec 16, 2017 7:54:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 8:08:20 GMT
Feels to me that running post-show talks as they now are doing would have been the sensible decision in the first place - show the play but then put it in context and discuss the problems.
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3,532 posts
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Post by Rory on Dec 16, 2017 9:04:36 GMT
Feels to me that running post-show talks as they now are doing would have been the sensible decision in the first place - show the play but then put it in context and discuss the problems. Totally agree. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 10:05:32 GMT
Feels to me that running post-show talks as they now are doing would have been the sensible decision in the first place - show the play but then put it in context and discuss the problems. Totally agree. Again My idea |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 10:25:06 GMT
I spoke to her You can all thank me You will be seeing it in London I don't know whether to be perversely excited or rather frightened that P has so much influence over London theatre . . . |
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1,064 posts
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Post by bellboard27 on Dec 16, 2017 10:42:43 GMT
I spoke to her You can all thank me You will be seeing it in London I don't know whether to be perversely excited or rather frightened that P has so much influence over London theatre . . . Now to see if P leaves at the interval |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 10:47:21 GMT
There is no interval!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 10:51:40 GMT
National Express are profiting from this scheduling, cancellation and reinstatement with post-show talk.
First, I purchased a ticket to travel back home straight after the play.
Then, I bought a second ticket to travel home in the early evening because of the cancellation.
Now, I may choose to stay for a talk, and would need to get a third, later, ticket home.
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1,064 posts
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Post by bellboard27 on Dec 16, 2017 10:53:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 11:00:50 GMT
I don't know whether to be perversely excited or rather frightened that P has so much influence over London theatre . . . Now to see if P leaves at the interval Well you can’t believe a word of it, although with the complete tin ear to working class concerns at the expense of the bien pensant clientele and ‘censorship’ as a cover to get around the inconvenience of having to go further than Sloane Square to see it, maybe it does explains a lot. It does show how the class issues that dog the Court now are being overridden and the idea of that same clientele sitting around having a chat after so everything can be alright is pretty sickening. Parsley will secretly hate it, as the characters are the the type he constantly and virulently rails against, behaving in ways that make him apoplectic. They should take coaches down from the Buttershaw and similar estates to pack the audience with people who have a real life connection with it, now that really would be a radical answer to the problem, starting a real conversation. Much better than the usual audience having a bit of a debate amongst themselves. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 11:09:47 GMT
Now to see if P leaves at the interval Well you can’t believe a word of it, although with the complete tin ear to working class concerns at the expense of the bien pensant clientele and ‘censorship’ as a cover to get around the inconvenience of having to go further than Sloane Square to see it, maybe it does explains a lot. It does show how the class issues that dog the Court now are being overridden and the idea of that same clientele sitting around having a chat after so everything can be alright is pretty sickening. Parsley will secretly hate it, as the characters are the the type he constantly and virulently rails against, behaving in ways that make him apoplectic. They should take coaches down from the Buttershaw and similar estates to pack the audience with people who have a real life connection with it, now that really would be a radical answer to the problem, starting a real conversation. Much better than the usual audience having a bit of a debate amongst themselves. Yet interesting How many of my favourite plays Are those by or about angry people Often from difficult backgrounds Shouting out about inequality or injustice Rita Sue and Bob Too Don’t Look Back In anger Many of the sarah Kane plays A taste of honey (when staged properly) Port Ecstasy Recently Boy at Almeida Are a few which pop to my mind I am highly understanding of true deprivation And lack of real opportunity And social inequalities As opposed to simple diotic behaviour which many people demonstrate and try to excuse by the above issues There is a distinction between the two |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 11:13:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 11:15:47 GMT
My error I am sealing the tiles At the same time |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 11:23:31 GMT
This play is not about inequality or injustice though (and that sort of approach may be what derailed Road if it was what Tiffany thought).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 11:38:29 GMT
Actually - if we're playing this game - I believe the idea of post show discussions was first mooted by someone else on this thread (I can't remember who). However, I too like to feel that this discussion thread must have played some small part in the decision. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 11:51:42 GMT
Actually - if we're playing this game - I believe the idea of post show discussions was first mooted by someone else on this thread (I can't remember who). However, I too like to feel that this discussion thread must have played some small part in the decision. My ideas were sent elsewhere Other than this forum |
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