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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 10:52:53 GMT
And Sharon D Clarke was General Cartwright and Clive Rowe was Nicely-Nicely Johnson. The fact it's taken 20 years to get from "some black cast members" to "hell let's do it ALL black!" is... interesting.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 1, 2017 11:06:02 GMT
An all black cast?? I think this is a disgrace and PC blind colour casting gone too far. What about an all white cast of The Lion King? Madness... I'm sorry but it has to be said. It only has to be said by racists. I don't think you should accuse him of racism because he objects to an all-black cast. Indeed, I think there's something racist about the idea of staging it as something taking place among all those black folks. But that's not the same as colour-blind casting, which ignores race differences and doesn't try to emphasise race. Further to the matter of colour-blind casting, doesn't anyone remember that Sky Masterson was played by Clark Peters, who's black, in the NT's 1997 revival? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 11:35:35 GMT
It only has to be said by racists. I don't think you should accuse him of racism because he objects to an all-black cast. I stand by it. To go as far as calling an all black cast "a disgrace", coupled with a Richard Littlejohnesque "It's PC gone mad" and an instance that "it has to be said" indicates to me a person with unsavoury views on race. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 11:49:23 GMT
To be honest, anyone who uses "PC" as a pejorative is the internet equivalent of a poisonous insect being brightly coloured. A highly visible way to give people in the know an idea of what's going on beneath the surface.
Also, read the thread, Paul, you can't sit there saying over and over again that you're the only person who remembers Clarke Peters has been in the show before when other people have already commented with "yes, I already know that".
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Post by maggiem on Dec 1, 2017 11:54:49 GMT
I don't care who's doing it.
I'm going because:-
I have never seen this musical before, on stage or film, although I have heard the songs before.
It's a pre-Christmas treat, after 3 months of bloody hard work.
With my NUS card, it's £7 for the ticket - BARGAIN!
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Post by musicalmarge on Dec 1, 2017 12:37:06 GMT
I don't think you should accuse him of racism because he objects to an all-black cast. I stand by it. To go as far as calling an all black cast "a disgrace", coupled with a Richard Littlejohnesque "It's PC gone mad" and an instance that "it has to be said" indicates to me a person with unsavoury views on race. I think it’s wonderful that we are having an all black cast Guys and Dolls. We are all pink inside. What I do disagree with is forcing theatres to have BAME representation in the front of house and backstage. If they don’t meet a certain quota they can be fined or lose funding. In places like Chester 98 percent of the population are white. It should not be about ticking boxes. |
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Post by princeton on Dec 1, 2017 13:36:53 GMT
if they don’t meet a certain quota they can be fined or lose funding Says who? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 14:48:34 GMT
In places like Chester 98 percent of the population are white. 1) The ME in BAME stands for "minority ethnic" and so includes black, white and everything else. For example, Irish-heritage people are BAME. Many of them are white. 2) The audience of a theatre in Chester don't all reside in Chester. There isn't a big sign over the entrance saying: "CHESTER THEATRE FOR CHESTER RESIDENTS". Is there? 3) Aaaggghhhh!!!! And 4) Chester (or Caer) was invaded and governed by multi-ethnic Roman Empire people, two millennia ago. |
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Post by sf on Dec 1, 2017 17:04:07 GMT
Nobody here seems aware that when the National Theatre did Guys and Dolls in 1997, Sky Masterson was played by Clark Peters, who's black ... Really? NOBODY here seems aware of it? Some of us actually saw it. More than once. |
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 1, 2017 17:07:55 GMT
Nobody here seems aware that when the National Theatre did Guys and Dolls in 1997, Sky Masterson was played by Clark Peters, who's black ... Really? NOBODY here seems aware of it? Some of us actually saw it. More than once. I said nobody *seems* aware of it. And that was because no-one has mentioned it in the context of this discussion. "Nobody here seems aware of it" does not mean "No-one reading this board saw it." |
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 1, 2017 17:08:59 GMT
It only has to be said by racists. I don't think you should accuse him of racism because he objects to an all-black cast. Indeed, I think there's something racist about the idea of staging it as something taking place among all those black folks. But that's not the same as colour-blind casting, which ignores race differences and doesn't try to emphasise race. Further to the matter of colour-blind casting, doesn't anyone remember that Sky Masterson was played by Clark Peters, who's black, in the NT's 1997 revival? Doing it *all* black is racist. |
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Post by martin1965 on Dec 1, 2017 17:10:12 GMT
In places like Chester 98 percent of the population are white. 1) The ME in BAME stands for "minority ethnic" and so includes black, white and everything else. For example, Irish-heritage people are BAME. Many of them are white. 2) The audience of a theatre in Chester don't all reside in Chester. There isn't a big sign over the entrance saying: "CHESTER THEATRE FOR CHESTER RESIDENTS". Is there? 3) Aaaggghhhh!!!! And 4) Chester (or Caer) was invaded and governed by multi-ethnic Roman Empire people, two millennia ago. Mods how do i ignore posters? Thanx😡😡 |
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 1, 2017 17:11:10 GMT
Nobody here seems aware that when the National Theatre did Guys and Dolls in 1997, Sky Masterson was played by Clark Peters, who's black ... Oh yes I was.  I didn't deny you were there. I said no-one had shown awareness that Masterson was played by a black actor. And that was true. |
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 1, 2017 17:17:51 GMT
I don't think you should accuse him of racism because he objects to an all-black cast. I stand by it. To go as far as calling an all black cast "a disgrace", coupled with a Richard Littlejohnesque "It's PC gone mad" and an instance that "it has to be said" indicates to me a person with unsavoury views on race. He may think it's a disgrace as being racist--as involving a deliberate attempt to people the stage with actors of one race only. I agree that his use of "PC" is mildly ominous--people who use the phrase quite often have nasty attitudes--but not enough to be as conclusive as you suggest. "It has to be said" could spring from the view that casting it all black is itself racist. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 17:20:40 GMT
Bore off.
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Post by jadnoop on Dec 1, 2017 17:23:39 GMT
What I do disagree with is forcing theatres to have BAME representation in the front of house and backstage. If they don’t meet a certain quota they can be fined or lose funding. I'd be interested in seeing a source on that. However, I'm not sure why it's surprising or disagreeable when it comes to public funding that those funds should go to events and places that work towards the type of society we want to become. After all, the demand for funding greatly outstrips the supply, so it's necessary to somehow decide which projects are most deserving of funding. The reality is that in order to get public arts funding there are a whole series of boxes you need to tick. From my limited experience I can remember showing how your event aims to make the arts more accessible, more universal, and inclusive in terms of your audience was a big thing. Granted 'quotas' might be a crude means of achieving things like encouraging greater diversity in people going into the arts. However, the unfortunate reality is that softer means take ages to have any effect, if they do at all. You only need to look at the lack of diversity that still exists in some of the Oxbridge colleges to see that it's not easy to undo a huge and complex momentum. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 17:27:33 GMT
Mods how do i ignore posters? Thanx😡😡 Replying to their posts is probably a bad start. |
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Post by sf on Dec 1, 2017 17:48:11 GMT
Doing it *all* black is racist. Good grief. Did I fall asleep and wake up in 1937? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 17:56:46 GMT
What I do disagree with is forcing theatres to have BAME representation in the front of house and backstage. If they don’t meet a certain quota they can be fined or lose funding. I'd be interested in seeing a source on that. I used to work as a public sector commissioner. It's just about unthinkable that any tendering process would be undertaken that doesn't require those bidding to demonstrate a commitment to equality and diversity. It strikes me as unlikely though that this commitment would take the form of racial quotas - they would be both politically volatile and near impossible to enforce. If you're really keen to start digging around the tendering documents, you may have to fake a registration to the Bravo platform to do so, but here would be a place to start - www.artscouncil.org.uk/supply-us |
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Post by princeton on Dec 1, 2017 17:57:40 GMT
if they don’t meet a certain quota they can be fined or lose funding Says who? By which I mean I find it highly unlikely that any arts organisation would lose it funding, or worse, be fined because of imposed quotas on backstage and front of house staff. I'd like to know what organisations are giving out these diktats and which are in receipt of them. Of course may arts organisations are given funding on the basis of increasing diversity amongst its staff and audiences - but i've not heard of such specific quotas being imposed. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 1, 2017 18:53:04 GMT
I don't care who's doing it. I'm going because:- I have never seen this musical before, on stage or film, although I have heard the songs before. It's a pre-Christmas treat, after 3 months of bloody hard work. With my NUS card, it's £7 for the ticket - BARGAIN! I’m going in the new year in that HIDEOUS period in January when it’s dark, and cold, and Christmas is over and there’s nowt to look forward to. |
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Post by martin1965 on Dec 1, 2017 19:05:27 GMT
Me too! Sat mat on 20 Jan, looking forward to it lots.
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Post by martin1965 on Dec 1, 2017 19:07:00 GMT
Mods how do i ignore posters? Thanx😡😡 Replying to their posts is probably a bad start. Very helpful, thanks |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 1, 2017 19:10:47 GMT
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 1, 2017 20:37:49 GMT
Doing it *all* black is racist. Good grief. Did I fall asleep and wake up in 1937? No. It's racist because it depends on the thought: "Hey, there's these people of a certain race. Hey! Let's put it on and include no actors except people of THAT race. That shows just how anti-racist we are. Race--Oh, it never crosses our minds." |
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