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Post by zsazsa on Aug 12, 2017 10:39:26 GMT
I saw the matinee yesterday and on the whole found it enjoyable.
Will Parker & Ado Annie were the standout performances for me as well as the sublime John Wilson Orchestra. How wonderful it is to here the orchestrations in their original glory.
My only disappointment was Ali Hakim.
I am interested to see how this comes across on television. I think there was a mix of people choosing to perform to the big house off the Albert Hall and those giving a more subtle performance for radio/television.
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Post by tmesis on Aug 12, 2017 10:54:35 GMT
Looking back on my original thoughts on this it comes over more negatively than I intended.
I did really enjoy it but mainly for the orchestra and choreography.
I've been to virtually all the Proms Wilson has done and there has been a problem with all of them. What Wilson gets out of the orchestra is as good as it gets in the world today. You'll never hear this genre of music better played anywhere. That therefore demands vocalists of equal calibre which is pretty near impossible to achieve. His My Fair Lady and Kiss me Kate both had better casts than Oklahoma!
When he does his concerts the problem is even more apparent. To do these songs justice you need a Frank Sinatra, Mel Torme, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan et al. His best vocalists for his concerts have been Julian Ovenden and Anna-Jane Casey.
Even seasoned performers like Kim Criswell and Clare Teal have been lacking compared to the standard set by the orchestra.
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Post by CG on the loose on Aug 12, 2017 12:02:30 GMT
Yep, too long and started late, so missed my train by 2 mins with an hour wait for the last, all-stopping service which is only just now leaving London - should be home by 2am! But I loved it and I can lie-in tomorrow so I'll stop grumbling. You weren't by any chance talking about trains from London Marylebone at the bus stop were you? If so then I was stood beside you and talking to you about which buses were coming next until the number 10 stopped and started letting people on from the back of the queue instead and the lady I was talking to had to run to get on it. Yep, that was me!  Fabulous evening, just a long haul home! |
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Post by zsazsa on Aug 12, 2017 12:32:47 GMT
What we need to keep in mind is that these semi staged musicals and more so with the concerts have limited rehearsal time.
It is, sadly, all too rare that vocalists get the opportunity to sing with an orchestra of this size, style and callable.
Even by 40's and 50's standards the size of the John Wilson Orchestra (for most of their concerts) is often the size of studio orchestra where as in live setting the likes of Ella Fitzgerald, Judy Garland and Frank Sinatra would have performed with a smaller combo.
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Post by theatrefan77 on Aug 12, 2017 12:58:09 GMT
This was a fun night. The orchestra sounded great although I had the impression that it was smaller than in other John Wilson concerts.
The performers were good in general. Will Parker and Ado Annie were the standouts for me. I wish Julian Ovenden would have played Curly though, he would have been just perfect.
For me this wasn't as good as other John Wilson concerts, but maybe is because Oklahoma! has never been a favourite of mine. The songs are glorious and they were was wonderfully sung, but I found some parts of the book quite tedious and a bit dated.
In spite of the boring bits, overall it was a very enjoyable evening specially because on the wonderful score.
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Post by tonyloco on Aug 12, 2017 13:30:46 GMT
To do these songs justice you need a Frank Sinatra, Mel Torme, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan et al. His best vocalists for his concerts have been Julian Ovenden and Anna-Jane Casey. I have to say that I continue to be puzzled by some of the posts I have seen on this Oklahoma! thread. I will not pick up further on the comments complaining about the almost all-white cast and the lack of a genuine Persian to play Ali Hakim, but I really don't understand what tmesis means by saying we need singers like Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, etc to do these songs justice. The John Wilson concerts are about show songs performed by experienced stage performers as they were originally intended. The performances of Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, etc are in a totally different genre. None of those people have ever appeared in a stage musical and their personalised performances would be totally out of place at a John Wilson concert where the singers are expected to sing the music exactly as the composers wrote it. Of course I love what Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald et al do with songs from the Broadway Songbook but that's not what I go to a John Wilson concert to hear! |
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Post by tonyloco on Aug 12, 2017 13:42:11 GMT
Agreed that Strallen was miscast in this. I would be interested to know why mrbarnaby says Scarlet Strallen was miscast as Laurey. I suspect Laurey may be one of those roles for which people have a strong image of their ideal interpreter but never actually see them. For me such roles include Shakespeare's Lady Macbeth and Verdi's Violetta in 'La traviata' I've seen various talented ladies playing both roles but never to my total satisfaction! I thought Scarlet Strallen was fine, more so on the TV than live at the matinee, but I was not disappointed. For the record, I have seen just four previous Laureys (including Shirley Jones in the 1955 film) but thought none of them seemed ideal although I'm not sure why! |
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Post by tmesis on Aug 12, 2017 13:49:37 GMT
When Wilson is giving a concert rather than staging a musical he is not looking for a totally literal performance and indeed didn't get it from the likes of Clare Teal, Curtis Stigers, Matthew Ford and Seth McFarlane. It's not so much the style of the Sinatras etc that I find lacking in his vocalists but the lack of charisma to match the star-quality of his orchestra.
For his complete stagings of musicals obviously a more exact approach is appropriate and I thought I made that distinction.
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Post by tonyloco on Aug 12, 2017 13:56:22 GMT
Oops! Sorry tmesis. I overreacted to your comments about Frank Sinatra etc and I fully understand now what you meant.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 14:32:52 GMT
You weren't by any chance talking about trains from London Marylebone at the bus stop were you? If so then I was stood beside you and talking to you about which buses were coming next until the number 10 stopped and started letting people on from the back of the queue instead and the lady I was talking to had to run to get on it. Yep, that was me! Fabulous evening, just a long haul home! Such a small world! Nice to meet you, albeit briefly! I managed to squeeze on that number 10 bus as well in the end! |
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Post by CG on the loose on Aug 12, 2017 15:12:06 GMT
Yep, that was me! Fabulous evening, just a long haul home! Such a small world! Nice to meet you, albeit briefly! I managed to squeeze on that number 10 bus as well in the end! Likewise And it was you - I thought I saw you at the front through the throng! |
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Post by fossil on Aug 12, 2017 15:47:29 GMT
I was not at the RAH and can only comment on this as a TV event. As such I thought this to be one of the best television showings of a staged musical production I have seen. I will echo the praise that posters have given the performers, orchestra and choreographer and what really did not disappoint was the TV direction.
The director last night in the main showed us what we want to see - the performance on stage. There was little of the irritating gimmicky TV direction one usually gets when musical events are televised (i.e. frequently cutting from camera to camera, too many shots from beneath the stage, the back of the stage, far distance, rapidly moving cameras, etc.)
The choice of camera angles and distance usually matched the action on stage so I feel a good deal of thought and rehearsal must have been involved. Sound balance was pretty good too.
The only thing that jarred was the inane prattle from the TV announcer, whoever she was, over the applause.
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Post by alece10 on Aug 12, 2017 19:00:03 GMT
Interesting item on Proms Extra just now. Julian Ovenden was on talking about Oklahoma and said rehearsals were only 10-11 days. Amazing! Also said he has a man crush on Robert Fairchild.
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Post by CG on the loose on Aug 12, 2017 19:05:59 GMT
David Seadon-Young tweeted about a "crazy two weeks"... but they probably had a day or two off in there somewhere!
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Post by tmesis on Aug 12, 2017 20:04:30 GMT
Interesting item on Proms Extra just now. Julian Ovenden was on talking about Oklahoma and said rehearsals were only 10-11 days. Amazing! Also said he has a man crush on Robert Fairchild. What a glorious image that conjures up. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 12, 2017 20:24:03 GMT
Am slowly making my way through the TV broadcast and enjoying most of it. The main distraction is that Ms Strallen seems to channel the young Lesley Garrett in parts of her voice - particularly when she is trying to open out the top of her voice for soaring phrases. Now I can't get that idea out of my head...
To be fair, if that Curly were to sing like he does to me, I would be a bit distracted!!
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Post by tonyloco on Aug 12, 2017 20:59:51 GMT
Interesting item on Proms Extra just now. Julian Ovenden was on talking about Oklahoma and said rehearsals were only 10-11 days. Amazing! Also said he has a man crush on Robert Fairchild. Who doesn't? |
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Post by tmesis on Aug 12, 2017 21:09:32 GMT
Am slowly making my way through the TV broadcast and enjoying most of it. The main distraction is that Ms Strallen seems to channel the young Lesley Garrett in parts of her voice - particularly when she is trying to open out the top of her voice for soaring phrases. Now I can't get that idea out of my head... To be fair, if that Curly were to sing like he does to me, I would be a bit distracted!! I've come full circle with Garrett. I thought she was excellent when she was an unknown jobing soprano at ENO but then when she was pushed as a TV star and 'crossover' artist she became quite unbearable. Now, with hindsight, and the dreadful Jenkins on the the scene she seems like an artist of the highest integrity. A year ago ago she was in the quite uncompromising opera Pleasure at The Lyric Hammersmith. The voice had worn really well and she played an ex prostitute working as a toilet attendant in a gay night club. This enabled her to sing one of my favourite ever lines: 'I'm the slapper from the crapper.' You don't get that in Verdi. |
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Post by wickedgrin on Aug 12, 2017 22:58:52 GMT
I thought about going to see this a few weeks ago but when I checked the tickets prices (only top prices left) I thought I would leave it as it was to be shown on BBC4.
I enjoyed this on the TV - I thought well filmed for a change. The superb orchestra was the star - a wonderful sound of a great score. Surely this show is due for a revival. A whole new generation must never have seen it.
I thought the staging was excellent (although in a small space?) with superb choreography.
My only reservation was the mixed bag of the cast - superb were Robert Fairchild and Lizzy Connolly. I also liked Scarlett Strallen although slightly too "operatic" for my taste in the role. Rather poor, however, was Belinda Lang as Aunt Eller who took "hollerin" to a whole new level with no warmth to her performance at all and truly dreadful was Marcus Brigstocke as Ali Hakim.
Also the show is too long especially the first act and you always think the show is over with the wedding of Curly and Laurey and Oklahoma but no there is another 15 minutes!
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Post by tonyloco on Aug 13, 2017 8:56:51 GMT
My only reservation was the mixed bag of the cast - superb were Robert Fairchild and Lizzy Connolly. I also liked Scarlett Strallen although slightly too "operatic" for my taste in the role. Rather poor, however, was Belinda Lang as Aunt Eller who took "hollerin" to a whole new level with no warmth to her performance at all and truly dreadful was Marcus Brigstocke as Ali Hakim. I agree with most of that. For those of us no longer in the first flush of youth, I thought Belinda Lang's hollering and her characterisation in general were a good imitation of Mammy Yokum from 'Li'l Abner'. And I wonder whether the problem with Ali Hakim is in the writing rather than in the performer. |
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Post by ronsdivas on Aug 13, 2017 12:44:47 GMT
It is TOTALLY bizarre that Ali Hakim was played by ... huh? .... Marcus Brigstocke! How did the R&H estate allow that?? But then again in the Donmar COMMITTEE musical, Camila B., who is Anglo-Iranian and a real person (unlike Ali Hakim, in case anyone wonders why the distinction: i.e. we're not talking a fictional construct here) was played (very well) by Sandra Marvin, who is black. At this rate, I can't wait to see who plays Tina Turner on the West End next year .... Sorry..but you have totally missed the point of Ali Hakim. He is a Jewish peddler...pretending to pass himself off as something "exotic" (a.k.a. Persian)..but he is no more Persian than Will Parker. He is ALWAYS played like this in every production I've seen and done. R& H cast Eddie Albert in the movie version...so I think they knew what they were doing. |
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Post by d'James on Aug 13, 2017 12:53:08 GMT
It is TOTALLY bizarre that Ali Hakim was played by ... huh? .... Marcus Brigstocke! How did the R&H estate allow that?? But then again in the Donmar COMMITTEE musical, Camila B., who is Anglo-Iranian and a real person (unlike Ali Hakim, in case anyone wonders why the distinction: i.e. we're not talking a fictional construct here) was played (very well) by Sandra Marvin, who is black. At this rate, I can't wait to see who plays Tina Turner on the West End next year .... Sorry..but you have totally missed the point of Ali Hakim. He is a Jewish peddler...pretending to pass himself off as something "exotic" (a.k.a. Persian)..but he is no more Persian than Will Parker. He is ALWAYS played like this in every production I've seen and done. Interesting. I didn't know that. (I only saw the show once and I'm not sure what I though.) |
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Post by tonyloco on Aug 13, 2017 21:48:09 GMT
My only disappointment was the the cast at the end did not line up for an encore of the title song, go down on one knee and raise their arms in a wide arc as they sang. I am sure this is what happened at the end of the original Australian production in 1949 but I might just be mis-remembering. I know every amateur musical society in Sydney did that in every revue for the next couple of years! Regarding my earlier quote about the finale, I have now found my copy of the piano vocal score, which lists the original Drury Lane cast including 'Harold' Keel as Curly, and the front shows a photo which must be either the Drury Lane production or the original Broadway production and there is the entire cast lined up along the footlights singing the title number. I was wrong in thinking it was a single line because it seems to be three lines where it is just the front line down on one knee and the others standing in two lines behind them. For technical reasons that elude me I am unable to put this image up here on Theatre Board. I cannot find this picture anywhere on the internet but at least it proves I was not wrong and I was really looking forward to that happening at the Albert Hall last Friday. |
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Post by vabbian on Aug 13, 2017 22:22:08 GMT
Robert Fairchild is just kinda dreamy...
every time he came on stage I lost the plot
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Post by tonyloco on Aug 13, 2017 22:29:31 GMT
There is only one star at a John Wilson prom and that is the man himself and, by extension, his orchestra. He conducts Roger's music better than any of the other Broadway/Hollywood greats that he specialises in. The orchestra were magnificent, beautifully balanced textures, subtle rubato and sumptuous string tone. I have only just properly read this post from tmesis and I want to comment further on how John Wilson's superb realisation of Rodgers's music lets us fully appreciate how working with Oscar Hammerstein allowed Rodgers to develop the romantic and poetic side of his composing which for various reasons had been suppressed during his time working with Larry Hart. Yes, I know they wrote love songs like 'My funny Valentine' and 'Blue moon' but I think in 'Oklahoma!' we suddenly hear new beauty and a wider range of emotions in the music than ever before, and all this was perfectly displayed in Wilson's inspired direction of the orchestra. |
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Fabulous evening, just a long haul home!
