Fat Friends the Musical - 2022 Tour

[theatremadness]

As much as I am a fan of Jodie Prenger, she is missing the point entirely that he is not just 'starting somewhere' or is a 'new talent', he simply would not have been offered the part, or probably been even slightly considered, if he wasn't 'Freddie Flintoff'.

[Deleted]

Exactly. And the kind of talent shows she points to usually attract a cohort who are trained/in training or have done some time on the amatuer/fringes. Hell at the very least most X Factor wanabees have sung in the local pub. It's the fact that a man from the world of sport appears to be walking into a role that could have gone to an experienced actor.

All that aside, is Cricket fans a demographic that's going to lead to mass ticket sales?!

[CG on the loose]

I can't really imagine that many cricket fans would want to go and see Flintoff on stage anyway - cricket fans who are already theatre fans, sure, but otherwise? Surely they like him (if they do) for his cricket, and perhaps his personality, neither of which will (in theory) be in evidence as he plays a role in a musical.

[TallPaul]

Even makes today's Times, albeit page 17:

"The former England captain has been signed up to appear in Fat Friends after his singing bowled over the organisers." (It must have taken literally seconds to come up with that pun, and since when are musicals organised?)

"Nicholas Lloyd Webber, the musical's composer, said he was thrilled to have Freddie on board. 'He immediately really impressed us in our audition,' he said"...'Our starting XI is now nothing short of sensational.'"

[duncan]

Jun 23, 2017 12:37:55 GMT CG on the loose said:

I can't really imagine that many cricket fans would want to go and see Flintoff on stage anyway - cricket fans who are already theatre fans, sure, but otherwise? Surely they like him (if they do) for his cricket, and perhaps his personality, neither of which will (in theory) be in evidence as he plays a role in a musical.

I think its far more likely to be a success in the musical area than if they were dropping him in alongside Nigel Havers in the Art tour. I still think its wrong mind you.

[johartuk]

Jun 23, 2017 12:27:54 GMT theatremadness said:

As much as I am a fan of Jodie Prenger, she is missing the point entirely that he is not just 'starting somewhere' or is a 'new talent', he simply would not have been offered the part, or probably been even slightly considered, if he wasn't 'Freddie Flintoff'.

She's also missing the point that Daniel Boys didn't 'start out' in Any Dream Will Do - he was already a professional performer, with training and experience under his belt when he auditioned for ADWD.  Given that Jodie also got her 'break' through a casting show (with at least two 'seasoned theatre pros' and 'experienced singer' Jodie amongst those who made the live I'd Do Anything shows), you'd think she'd realise that many of those who auditioned for, and made, the live stages of these shows, weren't novices.  In fact one of the things that was stated numerous times on the casting shows was how hard it was for an unknown performer to make the leap from understudy to principal/lead role - and that's mainly because producers tend to cast 'names' to get bums on seats!

The casting of Flintoff takes 'name casting'/'stunt casting' to a whole new level!  What next?  Ed Balls as the Phantom, with Ann Widdicombe as Christine?  Jessica Ennis-Hill as Elphaba?  Mo Farah as Lola in Kinky Boots?  Lewis Hamilton in...er...Hamilton?

[alece10]

Jun 23, 2017 14:15:03 GMT johartuk said:

Jun 23, 2017 12:27:54 GMT theatremadness said:

As much as I am a fan of Jodie Prenger, she is missing the point entirely that he is not just 'starting somewhere' or is a 'new talent', he simply would not have been offered the part, or probably been even slightly considered, if he wasn't 'Freddie Flintoff'.

She's also missing the point that Daniel Boys didn't 'start out' in Any Dream Will Do - he was already a professional performer, with training and experience under his belt when he auditioned for ADWD.  Given that Jodie also got her 'break' through a casting show (with at least two 'seasoned theatre pros' and 'experienced singer' Jodie amongst those who made the live I'd Do Anything shows), you'd think she'd realise that many of those who auditioned for, and made, the live stages of these shows, weren't novices.  In fact one of the things that was stated numerous times on the casting shows was how hard it was for an unknown performer to make the leap from understudy to principal/lead role - and that's mainly because producers tend to cast 'names' to get bums on seats!

The casting of Flintoff takes 'name casting'/'stunt casting' to a whole new level!  What next?  Ed Balls as the Phantom, with Ann Widdicombe as Christine?  Jessica Ennis-Hill as Elphaba?  Mo Farah as Lola in Kinky Boots?  Lewis Hamilton in...er...Hamilton?

Yes but do we know if any of the celebrities you have mentioned can sing? We do know that Freddie Flintoff can sing and is pretty good at it. Well certainly as far as Elvis songs go.

[theatremadness]

Jun 23, 2017 14:15:03 GMT johartuk said:

She's also missing the point that Daniel Boys didn't 'start out' in Any Dream Will Do - he was already a professional performer, with training and experience under his belt when he auditioned for ADWD.

Yes, absolutely! A point Daniel Boys even tried to make to Jodie himself on twitter, but to no avail.

As for

Jun 23, 2017 14:21:01 GMT alece10 said:

We do know that Freddie Flintoff can sing and is pretty good at it.

Well, from the clip Burly posted earlier in this thread and from the Elvis clip I've seen, in my opinion, that is a gross, gross overstatement. What I would say is that "Freddie Flintoff can hold a tune and is pretty good at singing an Elvis song....for Freddie Flintoff". Not "Wow, what a voice that Freddie Flintoff has, better than any trained voice I've ever heard, let's get him as the lead in our brand new musical because he's so bloody brilliant definitely not because he's Freddie Flintoff". The level of expectation for Freddie Flintoff being a good singer is 0%, right? So when he sings, and is pretty mediocre to OK, certainly much worse than anyone who actually would claim to be a singer, it actually makes him seem far better than he really is, because the expectation is so low. This is the problem. He'll appear to be "good" because everyone expects him to be bad and he may slightly exceed those expectations, when in fact he's still actually pretty bad.

Of course I'm not in any way suggesting that's what you were saying, alece10, I just think we have to be realistic about it. I'll say again, even if he turns out to be OK to good, that's still not good enough for me, because then it'll be a case of "Wow we weren't expecting that" and then the creative team can say "See, this is why we cast him!", when really they just got bloody lucky. Why, when you already have 'names' in a cast, could they not simply have just cast someone who would have reliably played the role with no question marks surrounding their ability. This will probably be the understudy. Putting Freddie Flintoff in a musical when you already have Jodie Prenger & Sam Bailey just seems like you're putting together a cast for a Panto to me, and totally screams that the creative team & producers have absolutely no faith what-so-ever in the quality of this new musical. Whilst I'm sure Fat Friends the Musical will be no piece of high-art, it really does make a laughing stock of the industry.

[duncan]

I can see the Flintoff casting working, I mean Chicago seemed to have some very odd casting decisions in its West End Run but by that time it was a known and popular show.

I can see Flintoff working in a show like Jackie - The Musical where a lot of the audience are there for a sing a long to the hits of the 70s/80s/90s.

I struggle to see Flintoff working in a show with an unknown score based on a TV show from 15 years ago that a lot of people have forgotten about. They are essentially selling the show on "Andrew Flintoff" rather than the music, lyrics, book, direction, design, name of the show, etc etc etc.

[Deleted]

It was a bit of leftfield casting with Andrew Flintoff. I'm a big cricket fan and he was a fantastic player plus he did lose a fair amount of weight in the early 2000's so I can see the logic of him in something like this. But he has never acted before not even in panto which fellow cricketer Sir Ian Botham did for a number of years.

I would not make too much issue with Sam and Jodie coming from TV talent/casting shows. Jodie has played a large number of roles over the last few years and has carried one person shows to good success and like Sam this is a natural for this type of show. Elaine C. Smith will bring humour to the show too.

[wickedgrin]

It's an utter disgrace and totally disrespectful to trained professional actors. I wonder how he would feel if actors turned up on his team to play cricket! Julian Clary batting for the other team.

[Deleted]

This is Fat friends the musical, its not like he is the next phantom or javart. And Jodie is hardly an outstanding talent, she basically plays herself in everything.

The weird thing is he is very blokey and i cant imagine his fanbase being drawn to see fat friends the musical just because he is in it.Does he have a huge female fanbase?

[alece10]

Jun 23, 2017 14:36:28 GMT theatremadness said:

Jun 23, 2017 14:15:03 GMT johartuk said:

She's also missing the point that Daniel Boys didn't 'start out' in Any Dream Will Do - he was already a professional performer, with training and experience under his belt when he auditioned for ADWD.

Yes, absolutely! A point Daniel Boys even tried to make to Jodie himself on twitter, but to no avail.

As for

Jun 23, 2017 14:21:01 GMT alece10 said:

We do know that Freddie Flintoff can sing and is pretty good at it.

Well, from the clip Burly posted earlier in this thread and from the Elvis clip I've seen, in my opinion, that is a gross, gross overstatement. What I would say is that "Freddie Flintoff can hold a tune and is pretty good at singing an Elvis song....for Freddie Flintoff". Not "Wow, what a voice that Freddie Flintoff has, better than any trained voice I've ever heard, let's get him as the lead in our brand new musical because he's so bloody brilliant definitely not because he's Freddie Flintoff". The level of expectation for Freddie Flintoff being a good singer is 0%, right? So when he sings, and is pretty mediocre to OK, certainly much worse than anyone who actually would claim to be a singer, it actually makes him seem far better than he really is, because the expectation is so low. This is the problem. He'll appear to be "good" because everyone expects him to be bad and he may slightly exceed those expectations, when in fact he's still actually pretty bad.

Of course I'm not in any way suggesting that's what you were saying, alece10, I just think we have to be realistic about it. I'll say again, even if he turns out to be OK to good, that's still not good enough for me, because then it'll be a case of "Wow we weren't expecting that" and then the creative team can say "See, this is why we cast him!", when really they just got bloody lucky. Why, when you already have 'names' in a cast, could they not simply have just cast someone who would have reliably played the role with no question marks surrounding their ability. This will probably be the understudy. Putting Freddie Flintoff in a musical when you already have Jodie Prenger & Sam Bailey just seems like you're putting together a cast for a Panto to me, and totally screams that the creative team & producers have absolutely no faith what-so-ever in the quality of this new musical. Whilst I'm sure Fat Friends the Musical will be no piece of high-art, it really does make a laughing stock of the industry.

No that's not what I was saying and you only half quoted me. I actually said he could sing, at least an Elvis song. Doesn't mean he could now go on and do Sondheim but I am sure he will be perfectly fine in the role he has been given.

[djp]

Jun 23, 2017 15:00:10 GMT duncan said:

I can see the Flintoff casting working, I mean Chicago seemed to have some very odd casting decisions in its West End Run but by that time it was a known and popular show.

I can see Flintoff working in a show like Jackie - The Musical where a lot of the audience are there for a sing a long to the hits of the 70s/80s/90s.

I struggle to see Flintoff working in a show with an unknown score based on a TV show from 15 years ago that a lot of people have forgotten about. They are essentially selling the show on "Andrew Flintoff" rather than the music, lyrics, book, direction, design, name of the show, etc etc etc.

Its just  a bad concept . poor Jodie has now gone the complete circle from winning a  weight loss show to starring in Fat Friends. She's targetted at whoever voted for her in I'Do Anything. Flintoff is targetted at someone who wants blokey bloke,  and he won I'm a Celebrity so there must be some fanbase. The bigger  problem isn't can he warble , its can he act. But if the story is optional too...

Meanwhile,  more than usual of the top west end talent either seems to be doing so well its been exported where i can't see it , or its been unused , and the West End seems full of fallen pound tourists  willing to pay £ 95 for my £67 seat of a couple of years ago-  to often watch stuff thats often not actually much good - because its got nothing much to sing, not much story , clones soemthing else,  or got   name casting that can't act or sing it.

[Deleted]

Its called show BUSINESS. Its about making money. If you dont like him in it, then dont go. It makes good business sense to have a familar name. Ok, so he's not an actor but he will certainly get people there, including men who might not normally go.

Good luck to him.

[theatremadness]

I know that's not what you said alece10, I went off on a tangent only semi-related to what you were saying and I know I only half-quoted you - I had hoped to make that clear when I said "I'm not in any way suggesting that's what you were saying" but apologies if that didn't come across properly, as I know what you were saying, I was, as I said, just going off on a tangent!



And yes it absolutely is a business @tbfl, but when that business is also your livelihood, or even if it's not, I believe you have every right to express your contempt for that decision, as much as those who think it's a good idea! OK fine, he gets some people to the theatre who've never been before. But now you have to get them back, so what, have a minor celebrity from any profession in *every* show from now on? That's a gross exaggeration of course, but for me his casting is less about which show he's been cast in but more about the fact he was cast in the first place. And yes I'm being dramatic!!!

Soz all, this casting has just really grinded my gears. Nothing personal, of course!!

[BurlyBeaR]

Jun 23, 2017 16:37:23 GMT @outlander said:

This is Fat friends the musical, its not like he is the next phantom or javart. And Jodie is hardly an outstanding talent, she basically plays herself in everything.

The weird thing is he is very blokey and i cant imagine his fanbase being drawn to see fat friends the musical just because he is in it.Does he have a huge female fanbase?

That "League Of Their Own" panel game is prime time comedy on Sky 1 isn't it? That sort of blokey-wokey stuff does attract women, I gather. I'm picturing Wayne and Waynetta Slob types slumped on their "settee", one hand in a giant bag of Lidl crisps and the other in their respective trackie bottoms. Waynetta fancies Freddie summat rotten and will be the one to see him in Fat Friends along with her real life fat friends, with whom she'll get bladdered in the pub beforehand. She also likes "that Sam Bailey off the X Factor". Wayne will stay in and watch footy or some dodgy porn.

Goodness! Look at me stereotyping people. Naughty naughty. 

Speaking of Sam Bailey who said she could act either? One tour as Mama Morton in Chicago doth not an actress make! She's as under qualified as Freddie is she not?

Anyway I said at the top of this thread that I could imagine what it will be like and so far it's playing out to be exactly what I thought. 

[sirdaniel]

Jun 23, 2017 19:29:30 GMT djp said:

and he won I'm a Celebrity so there must be some fanbase.

He won the Australian I'm a Celeb...long way to travel to see Fat Friends the Musical hahahah

[BurlyBeaR]

[WireHangers]

Please take it from me when I say that trained professional actors don't care about stunt casting. The only people who seem to care are actors who trained at a University and have never had a professional job, acting like celebrities have taken a role off them, and the general public.

We know how this business works. We know the world doesn't owe us anything. Most of us are just grateful to be involved in a touring show. If any professional actor is against star casting then they can easily step aside and let the 100's of us that couldn't give a fig more of a chance of getting cast.

[danb]

Aug 12, 2017 15:57:33 GMT WireHangers said:

Please take it from me when I say that trained professional actors don't care about stunt casting. The only people who seem to care are actors who trained at a University and have never had a professional job, acting like celebrities have taken a role off them, and the general public.

We know how this business works. We know the world doesn't owe us anything. Most of us are just grateful to be involved in a touring show. If any professional actor is against star casting then they can easily step aside and let the 100's of us that couldn't give a fig more of a chance of getting cast.

Oh I like this guy, he can stay 😀

Well said sir!

[theatremadness]

Aug 12, 2017 15:57:33 GMT WireHangers said:

Please take it from me when I say that trained professional actors don't care about stunt casting. The only people who seem to care are actors who trained at a University and have never had a professional job, acting like celebrities have taken a role off them, and the general public.

We know how this business works. We know the world doesn't owe us anything. Most of us are just grateful to be involved in a touring show. If any professional actor is against star casting then they can easily step aside and let the 100's of us that couldn't give a fig more of a chance of getting cast.

Well the reaction from many well-known actors (in musical theatre) suggests the exact opposite! Acting isn't brain surgery or some other sort of life-saving vocation, but for those who do it (and do it well), it's their livelihood, so they have every right to stand up and confront decisions that they believe makes a mockery of their career.

I totally get the argument that it helps get a show put on and, as a result, actually allows more people to be cast therefore providing more jobs, but surely there's got to be a line? It doesn't affect you now, great, but the way we're going, it very may well affect you at some point down the line in your career. Don't you care? Aren't you passionate enough about what you do to believe that whilst you work in a cut-throat business, your industry should also be treated with respect?

I dunno, and of course I don't know you from Adam so I'm not making these assumptions about you at all, just making general statements, but I just feel that rolling over and taking it seems a very wrong and submissive way to treat questionable decisions an industry you hope to make a life and career from.

[danb]

Aug 12, 2017 16:27:58 GMT theatremadness said:

Aug 12, 2017 15:57:33 GMT WireHangers said:

Please take it from me when I say that trained professional actors don't care about stunt casting. The only people who seem to care are actors who trained at a University and have never had a professional job, acting like celebrities have taken a role off them, and the general public.

We know how this business works. We know the world doesn't owe us anything. Most of us are just grateful to be involved in a touring show. If any professional actor is against star casting then they can easily step aside and let the 100's of us that couldn't give a fig more of a chance of getting cast.

Well the reaction from many well-known actors (in musical theatre) suggests the exact opposite! Acting isn't brain surgery or some other sort of life-saving vocation, but for those who do it (and do it well), it's their livelihood, so they have every right to stand up and confront decisions that they believe makes a mockery of their career.

I totally get the argument that it helps get a show put on and, as a result, actually allows more people to be cast therefore providing more jobs, but surely there's got to be a line? It doesn't affect you now, great, but the way we're going, it very may well affect you at some point down the line in your career. Don't you care? Aren't you passionate enough about what you do to believe that whilst you work in a cut-throat business, your industry should also be treated with respect?

I dunno, and of course I don't know you from Adam so I'm not making these assumptions about you at all, just making general statements, but I just feel that rolling over and taking it seems a very wrong and submissive way to treat questionable decisions an industry you hope to make a life and career from.

I didn't read it as 'rolling over' more as an acceptance of this is the situation we are in, let's make the most of it. How many questionable productions would never have even got off the ground without her off of the X Factor or him off of Emmerdale, therefore how many jobs would never have existed?

[theatremadness]

Aug 12, 2017 16:58:59 GMT danb said:

Aug 12, 2017 16:27:58 GMT theatremadness said:

Well the reaction from many well-known actors (in musical theatre) suggests the exact opposite! Acting isn't brain surgery or some other sort of life-saving vocation, but for those who do it (and do it well), it's their livelihood, so they have every right to stand up and confront decisions that they believe makes a mockery of their career.

I totally get the argument that it helps get a show put on and, as a result, actually allows more people to be cast therefore providing more jobs, but surely there's got to be a line? It doesn't affect you now, great, but the way we're going, it very may well affect you at some point down the line in your career. Don't you care? Aren't you passionate enough about what you do to believe that whilst you work in a cut-throat business, your industry should also be treated with respect?

I dunno, and of course I don't know you from Adam so I'm not making these assumptions about you at all, just making general statements, but I just feel that rolling over and taking it seems a very wrong and submissive way to treat questionable decisions an industry you hope to make a life and career from.

I didn't read it as 'rolling over' more as an acceptance of this is the situation we are in, let's make the most of it. How many questionable productions would never have even got off the ground without her off of the X Factor or him off of Emmerdale, therefore how many jobs would never have existed?

OK sure, but why can't you accept the situation and make the most of it, whilst *also* expressing your unhappiness/anger/disdain? Obviously nothing is going to reverse the decision which means of course you're right, you have to make the most of it, but I (and seemingly others) feel it's also very important to make people (who have power) aware that we believe the industry should be treated with respect, not a playground for some to dip their toes into. And I recognise your second point - in fact I made it myself in my own post - but was the only way this musical was going to succeed was by hiring an ex-cricketer? At least with X Factor, you stand a chance of them being able to hold a tune and, if you're lucky, act through it as well. At least with Emmerdale you stand a chance of them being able to act and possibly sing which may have been included in their training as an actor. Those are the types of occasions where a more relaxed attitude may possibly be the way forward. But an ex-cricketer? Who cameo-ed as himself in an episode of something on Sky? Who has sung, rather averagely (to be polite), as part of a game show? You gotta speak out against some things! (Where's my barricade....is that people singing?)

[BurlyBeaR]

I bet Freddie barely sings in it anyway.