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Post by sukhavati on Aug 2, 2021 0:31:45 GMT
Ah I guess I’ve never noticed the miming all the way through when I was a little further back. I wonder if it’s the new sound that made it more obvious or just because I was closer. Watch the conductor - when he has headphones on, the voices are on tape.
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Post by sukhavati on Aug 2, 2021 4:41:25 GMT
I think ALW genuinely doesn’t think of the stage “decoration” as part of the show. That’s why he seems convinced the show remains the same. I think he (and CM) are incredibly lucky to have had a Director and Designer that created something of such high quality that, even after chunks are ripped out, it remains at a level above most musicals. So according to an online friend who had a back-of-house source at HM's, the issue (for Cammack) was the cost of repairing the Golden Angel and regular maintenance. That's the reason for the change to the stupid horse. IMO that removes part of the Phantom's magic; the special moments like him sweeping the portcullis up or down with his hands, essentially hypnotising Christine (at least in the original blocking) and being able to pull her to himself with just a gesture. Those moments when he was suspended in the air over the audience were beautiful, and if you sat in the front center of the Royal Circle, it almost felt as if you could reach out and touch him.
To me, this is as bad as putting a sword in his hand, or him waving around a gun as in the Greek production. It just makes him an ordinary criminal, albeit intelligent, deranged, and deformed... but it takes away something from the character when you consider the source material. It's the same reason I hate the film version with him growing up from childhood in the cellars of the opera house.
So is the whole health and safety excuse genuine (because they had harnesses, etc in the original production), or is it to hide another aspect of Cammack's penny-pinching? Any thoughts?
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Post by cpm on Aug 2, 2021 9:53:46 GMT
How long is it taking to get into the theatre? I’ve seen pictures of queues around the theatre. Going next week with an elderly relative (not my decision - IMO it’s too risky at the moment!). I’m concerned about him not being able to stand for so long outside, especially given the heat as apparently we will be in the middle of another heatwave… Email says to arrive 30mins-1hour before curtain. Not too long. My queue for the stalls went to bottom of Haymarket & about 100 yds onto Pall Mall... About 10 mins or so from there, maybe less. Arriving at 1900, as I always usually did anyway, will get you comfortably seated with a drink by 1920ish... I guess they just delay the start for people still queueing anyway.
And they allowed people with special considerations to just go right in -- I'm sure they would for you & your relative, nobody queueing minds. I'd just go straight to one of the ushers at the door...
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Post by FrontrowverPaul on Aug 2, 2021 10:14:53 GMT
After twice unintentionally (public transport disruption) arriving at theatres less than 15 minutes before curtain up - and walking straight in - I am tempted to adopt that as policy.
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Post by chinners on Aug 3, 2021 18:03:11 GMT
Having read this forum for quite some time, I thought I'd join just to give my thoughts on the current production. Being a new but diehard fan of the original, seeing it five times in the two years before the pandemic, I was concerned about the changes that have been talked about. But loving the score and the sets, I was still intrigued as to how this production held up to the 'Brilliant Original' and splurged out on a seat in row G of the stalls.
I have to admit I was very pleasently surprised last night. The overture has improved dramatically with the addition of the false proscenium rising up in the latter half, alongside the increased strobe effects that give it a much less dated feel. Whilst the angel is gone, and it was one of the things that blew me away the first time I saw the original production, the horse I think is worthy replacement (a controversial opinion I know!). I think it is an improvement for those in the rear stalls or rear dress circle that woudn't really see much of the angel, and it makes the set of the rooftop a little less bare. Most of the set has remained as it was but looks much better thanks to new lighting. The staircase in masquerade got an applause and thankfully doesn't cause any noise when it gets pulled of stage anymore. The one thing that I did not particularly enjoy was the new front curtain, it doesn't represent the rest of the set in terms of quality and whilst I understand that you need something to look at during the interval and whilst they get ready for bows, I did feel that this was a downgrade.
The orchestra at times felt reduced however most of the time it did sound great, there have been worse reductions (the King and I comes to mind). It still feels so much better to hear the music live compared to the cast recordings. The cast were good although I was distracted by tourists who sadly where on there phones and chatting, although it did remind me of the 'old normal' which was refreshing.
Considering how this is predominately a tourist show, I think the new changes whilst may annoy some will ensure the future of this show. If you are seated in the rear stalls or rear dress circle which is where many who don't know the show often choose to sit, the show has changed for the better. I think the more modern lighting and refined looks will keep the show at the heart of the West End and ensure it attracts new generation of die-hard fans who may not have appreciated some of the things that were left unchanged since 1986. I for one still think this production is one of the best on the West End and will continue to repeat-visit for many years to come.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 3, 2021 18:18:34 GMT
Welcome chinners and thanks for your review.
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Post by 141920grm on Aug 4, 2021 6:05:43 GMT
All in all, it was still a solid 4 star. A very very similar production with a good, but just not the strongest, cast at the helm. That’s quite generous of you! I had the same concerns with exactly the same set pieces you specifically pointed out, and your review only confirms I would also find those aspects lacking if I were to go see the show... and had I also found the orchestra and leads as unsatisfactory as you described, it would bump my rating down to 2 stars, 3 stars max if everything combined actually made me <i>feel</i> something that night. But then again I guess I’m a harsher critic than most, working in a very detail-focused artistic field (and having inadvertently saw the final cast no less 10 times, so I remember the most minute things about the last production that I enjoyed and are gone now...) Any thoughts on Rhys? His chemistry with HAH was most noticeably absent the last time I saw them on tour, so I’d be curious if you found him any more intriguing than Killian or Lucy this time round
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 9:03:03 GMT
Having read this forum for quite some time, I thought I'd join just to give my thoughts on the current production. Being a new but diehard fan of the original, seeing it five times in the two years before the pandemic, I was concerned about the changes that have been talked about. But loving the score and the sets, I was still intrigued as to how this production held up to the 'Brilliant Original' and splurged out on a seat in row G of the stalls. I have to admit I was very pleasently surprised last night. The overture has improved dramatically with the addition of the false proscenium rising up in the latter half, alongside the increased strobe effects that give it a much less dated feel. Whilst the angel is gone, and it was one of the things that blew me away the first time I saw the original production, the horse I think is worthy replacement (a controversial opinion I know!). I think it is an improvement for those in the rear stalls or rear dress circle that woudn't really see much of the angel, and it makes the set of the rooftop a little less bare. Most of the set has remained as it was but looks much better thanks to new lighting. The staircase in masquerade got an applause and thankfully doesn't cause any noise when it gets pulled of stage anymore. The one thing that I did not particularly enjoy was the new front curtain, it doesn't represent the rest of the set in terms of quality and whilst I understand that you need something to look at during the interval and whilst they get ready for bows, I did feel that this was a downgrade. The orchestra at times felt reduced however most of the time it did sound great, there have been worse reductions (the King and I comes to mind). It still feels so much better to hear the music live compared to the cast recordings. The cast were good although I was distracted by tourists who sadly where on there phones and chatting, although it did remind me of the 'old normal' which was refreshing. Considering how this is predominately a tourist show, I think the new changes whilst may annoy some will ensure the future of this show. If you are seated in the rear stalls or rear dress circle which is where many who don't know the show often choose to sit, the show has changed for the better. I think the more modern lighting and refined looks will keep the show at the heart of the West End and ensure it attracts new generation of die-hard fans who may not have appreciated some of the things that were left unchanged since 1986. I for one still think this production is one of the best on the West End and will continue to repeat-visit for many years to come. Lovely review, thanks - agree with all of this!
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Post by daisy24601 on Aug 4, 2021 19:23:35 GMT
Ah I guess I’ve never noticed the miming all the way through when I was a little further back. I wonder if it’s the new sound that made it more obvious or just because I was closer. Watch the conductor - when he has headphones on, the voices are on tape. Is the spoken bit when the Phantom says his "sing for me"s on tape?
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Post by inthenose on Aug 4, 2021 19:38:41 GMT
Watch the conductor - when he has headphones on, the voices are on tape. Is the spoken bit when the Phantom says his "sing for me"s on tape? "Sing for me" is live, leading into "I have brought you" which is all live. The pre-recorded parts in the show are (were?), all of the title track until it switches to live for "sing my angel of a music", but only live for the Phantom, Christine remains a prerecorded vocal. - the Phantom in Notes I/II - the Phantom at the end of Prima Donna - the Phantom in Il Muto - Christine: "we must go to the roof, we'll be safe there" - the Phantom's laugh in All I ask of you reprise - the Phantom in Seal my Fate Tonight - the Phantom in Why So Silent I think that's it.
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Post by anthony on Aug 6, 2021 12:09:47 GMT
Is the spoken bit when the Phantom says his "sing for me"s on tape? "Sing for me" is live, leading into "I have brought you" which is all live. The pre-recorded parts in the show are (were?), all of the title track until it switches to live for "sing my angel of a music", but only live for the Phantom, Christine remains a prerecorded vocal. - the Phantom in Notes I/II - the Phantom at the end of Prima Donna - the Phantom in Il Muto - Christine: "we must go to the roof, we'll be safe there" - the Phantom's laugh in All I ask of you reprise - the Phantom in Seal my Fate Tonight - the Phantom in Why So Silent I think that's it. Was Why So Silent always pre-recorded? I only ask because I saw the German production in Essen about 13 years ago and Uwe Kroeger, who was playing the Phantom, messed up his lines. As a side note, someone has uploaded audios of the (re-)opening night performance onto YouTube for those interested.
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Post by inthenose on Aug 6, 2021 16:41:53 GMT
"Sing for me" is live, leading into "I have brought you" which is all live. The pre-recorded parts in the show are (were?), all of the title track until it switches to live for "sing my angel of a music", but only live for the Phantom, Christine remains a prerecorded vocal. - the Phantom in Notes I/II - the Phantom at the end of Prima Donna - the Phantom in Il Muto - Christine: "we must go to the roof, we'll be safe there" - the Phantom's laugh in All I ask of you reprise - the Phantom in Seal my Fate Tonight - the Phantom in Why So Silent I think that's it. Was Why So Silent always pre-recorded? I only ask because I saw the German production in Essen about 13 years ago and Uwe Kroeger, who was playing the Phantom, messed up his lines. As a side note, someone has uploaded audios of the (re-)opening night performance onto YouTube for those interested. Yes, always pre-recorded from day one. This one is due to the difficulty in singing in the Red Death mask, the laughter continuing after having dropped through a trapdoor, etc.
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Post by phantom4ever on Aug 6, 2021 18:51:53 GMT
It sounds like the trap doors are a big change with the new show?
The Phantom and Christine do not walk down steps into a trap door at the beginning of the title song, correct?
How do Raoul and Christine leave the stage at the end of AIAOY before the horse comes out?
Does Raoul still jump into a trap door during Track Down This Murderer? That’s my favorite trap of all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2021 18:57:08 GMT
It sounds like the trap doors are a big change with the new show? The Phantom and Christine do not walk down steps into a trap door at the beginning of the title song, correct? How do Raoul and Christine leave the stage at the end of AIAOY before the horse comes out? Does Raoul still jump into a trap door during Track Down This Murderer? That’s my favorite trap of all. Yes Raoul still jumps (looks like quite a height so always impressed with this). No re the title song. Can't remember re middle question sorry!
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Post by Figaro on Aug 6, 2021 21:04:51 GMT
Middle question, down steps into a trap door.
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Post by Oleanna on Aug 6, 2021 22:09:37 GMT
Middle question, down steps into a trap door. From whence they entered at the top of the scene...
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Post by anthony on Aug 7, 2021 21:22:53 GMT
Eventually saw it. Before I go into the actual show, I have to say that I wasn't too happy about the experience of getting into the theatre...
So I live just outside of London, but my family live near the Scottish border. For my grandfather, he travelled to London specifically to see Phantom after wanting to see it for over 2 decades. He specifically wanted to see the chandelier rise. Him travelling down here was a big thing for him - he is anxious of travelling. The *moment* the overture started, we were upped from our seats for late comers. I know this can't be helped, but my near 80 year old grandfather naturally took a while to get up and out of the way for these people. I know late comers need to be admitted, but I'd argue that the *moment* the chandelier starts to rise is not a suitable moment, given the show we are seeing? Given the premium that certain seats in theatre attract for this moment alone. It also meant that I also missed pretty much the entirety of the overture, so I can't comment on that cool barrier moment everyone was talking about earlier, because I literally missed the entire thing. Equally, someone decided to go to the shop during the interval on our row (I am not joking...) and *MID-WAY* through Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again, we were upped for this person returning from the interval late. Just not really suitable... literally during the song.
In terms of lyrical changes, there were a couple which jumped out to me. Some made sense and others just seemed to be about making a change for the sake of it, rather than anything else? In 'Angel of Music', Meg used to say "Your face, Christine, it's white!", she now says "Christine, are you alright?". It obviously makes sense for this change to happen, although it sounds somewhat jarring as it doesn't 100% fit into the music. Raoul then had some new bits in 'Prima Donna' towards the end of the song. I couldn't work out what he was singing, other than it being about the audacity of Christine being given a silent role. During the final lair, when Raoul appears Phantom used to sing "Sir, this is indeed an unparalleled delight!" he now sings something along the lines of it being a pleasure that Raoul has arrived. Seemed like a silly change to me? One that I can't quite understand.
I actually like the horse at the end of Act 1... It looked really trashy at the start (although I think this owes largely to the set, which is almost painted in a comic book style? Doesn't match any other set piece at all). Once the horse moves to the front of the stage and turns around, it's actually quite large and genuinely looks physically impressive. Actually a little bit annoyed at how brilliant it looks, haha.
In terms of the band, the only time I noticed it being a bit thin was during Masquerade, in which the singers were literally drowning out the band. Other than that, I can't say I noticed it too much, if I'm honest. With lighting, it's just amazing. The manager's office scenes in particular really benefit from the new lighting. When Raoul jumps during the final lair, the switch between Phantom and Christine and him was just amazing? I can't really explain it. But it was almost magically and like I was watching a screen rather than stage? Just great.
In terms of the cast... I have to say, I wasn't a huge fan of the cast as a whole? Greg Castiglioni was brilliant at Piangi, but Saori Oda didn't really do it as Carlotta for me? Her timing was off - she literally didn't get a single laugh throughout the entire thing. I quite like Rhys' forcefulness as Raoul and he was probably the strongest in his role out of the trio. Killian and Lucy had some brilliant moments (their final lair genuinely made me tear up - Lucy plays it like she's chosen the Phantom and Raoul literally drags her away. It's a really interesting take on Christine that I haven't seen before - she clearly chose Phantom. Even in PONR, it's obvious she's made her mind up once she realises it's Phantom.) I've seen Phantom around 20 times and this was the first time I've ever seen it where the cast didn't get a standing ovation.
As a whole, I actually enjoyed it. Phans go in with an open mind and you'll enjoy it!
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Post by anthony on Aug 7, 2021 22:25:14 GMT
Can't edit the above post, but on the lyric changes during the final lair, in the opening night audio uploaded to YouTube, Killian does sing "this is an unparalleled delight". I'm not sure why he decided to sing about it being a pleasure that Raoul has arrived during the matinee today instead. I'm glad that it seems to be him making it up as he goes along, rather than an official lyric change!
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Post by scarpia on Aug 8, 2021 10:18:36 GMT
Thanks for the review. Are they still not tracking the candelabra during the title song? And is the transition to the title song still prolonged rather than using the doubles?
Curious as those, coupled with the orchestra/design changes, are what's putting me off from attending. Cumulatively they amount to a dealbreaker for me...but if one changes I might reconsider.
I was disappointed to see they've even cut corners on the costumes. Christine's bodice in the Masquerade dress for instance is just...what?
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Post by fiyerorocher on Aug 8, 2021 12:16:34 GMT
Can't edit the above post, but on the lyric changes during the final lair, in the opening night audio uploaded to YouTube, Killian does sing "this is an unparalleled delight". I'm not sure why he decided to sing about it being a pleasure that Raoul has arrived during the matinee today instead. I'm glad that it seems to be him making it up as he goes along, rather than an official lyric change! "Let me see her" "Be my guest, Sir" has been changed to "Let me see her" "Well of course, Sir" so they are definitely making some lyric changes around that point. No idea why, though!
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Post by anthony on Aug 8, 2021 14:52:21 GMT
Thanks for the review. Are they still not tracking the candelabra during the title song? And is the transition to the title song still prolonged rather than using the doubles? Curious as those, coupled with the orchestra/design changes, are what's putting me off from attending. Cumulatively they amount to a dealbreaker for me...but if one changes I might reconsider. I was disappointed to see they've even cut corners on the costumes. Christine's bodice in the Masquerade dress for instance is just...what? What did she wear when you saw it? At yesterday's matinee she was wearing the dress from the previous production. No change there at all as far as I could see, actually. Correct - candelabra only rise and don't move after that. The transition was prolonged. You saw the dancers and madam Giry walk across the stage, whilst Raoul stopped and stared at them (It was a bit weird actually - he looked angry at Giry at that point, but seemingly for no reason? Perhaps he was meant to be looking for Christine within the ballet girls?)
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Post by anthony on Aug 8, 2021 14:58:28 GMT
Can't edit the above post, but on the lyric changes during the final lair, in the opening night audio uploaded to YouTube, Killian does sing "this is an unparalleled delight". I'm not sure why he decided to sing about it being a pleasure that Raoul has arrived during the matinee today instead. I'm glad that it seems to be him making it up as he goes along, rather than an official lyric change! "Let me see her" "Be my guest, Sir" has been changed to "Let me see her" "Well of course, Sir" so they are definitely making some lyric changes around that point. No idea why, though! He also sings "I have hardly dreamt we'd be so blessed" rather than "I had rather hoped that you would come". I wonder if there were a certain amount of changes they needed to make it consider it a brand new version of the show, so they're making random and minor lyrical changes? I notice in the lobby, it now says "Phantom of the Opera opened at Her Majesty's Theatre on 27th July 2021".
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Post by newyorkcityboy on Aug 8, 2021 22:25:07 GMT
Argh - lyric changes for no reason! So jarring if you know a score well. The most recent production of Miss Saigon had quite a few and they were in no way improvements over the original. (Slightly different case in point is Memory, one of my favourite MT songs - I’ve never liked the way the show/film version randomly mixes and matches the original lyrics between the two iterations so you never get a ‘complete’ performance of the song, just two slightly odd versions with extra (pointless) lines. Imagine if they suddenly did that with Don’t Cry For Me Argentina or Music Of The Night!)
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Post by vabbian on Aug 10, 2021 13:14:45 GMT
Saw this for the 1000th time last night.
Incredible as usual.
The changes are not too large to worry Phantom fans. The most obvious one to me was the set for All I Ask of You (on the roof). Instead of descending from above, the Phantom swings around to centre stage on one of the statues from the roof set.
The cast was great. Carlotta a bit weak on the diction and comedy aspects but with a great singing voice. Christine also great, although as a die-hard Sierra Boggess fan everyone pales in comparison for me.
5/5 - those who have not seen the changes need not worry :-)
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Post by alison on Aug 10, 2021 13:18:12 GMT
I want to go again to see Holly-Anne Hull but would need to be a cheap seat this time. Has anyone sat in either the seats behind the pillars at the back of the stalls or the far ends of row A of the upper circle please? Specifically I'd like to know if the ends of row A upper circle are aisle seats - I sat on the end of row A royal circle last time which is labelled as not an aisle but has a small gap that I was able to use as an exit.
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