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Post by Oleanna on Jul 29, 2021 22:19:47 GMT
One annoying thing to note - ALW promised months back that he would change Christine's cadenza in Think Of Me. He did a whole competition on social media for fans to come up with their submissions and what do we get? The cadenza from the Broadway production/film... That competition was for the *Broadway* production. |
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Post by fiyerorocher on Jul 29, 2021 22:39:37 GMT
I did wonder if they cut a set of doubles because they don't have another woman of colour in the cast who could double for Lucy, other than Beatrice. The easiest solution to which would be to hire more WoC, I would have thought, but they evidently didn't do that. If that's the reason then what will they do when the one suitable double is on holiday or off sick? Not have any doubles at all in that scene? It wouldn't be a very impressive title song if the stage is empty for the first couple of minutes. In my experience they only really care about matching things like this for the principal cast. E.g. they cast black actresses to play young Cosette when they have a black actress playing grown up Cosette, but if understudy grown up Cosette is white, they don't have a white young Cosette. The audience just suspend their disbelief (or they complain about it to other members of their party in the interval  ). I'd imagine they'll do a similar thing at Phantom if the swing who covers Beatrice is white - just put her on anyway. Maybe have her face upstage a little more than Beatrice did. |
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Post by dazzlair on Jul 29, 2021 23:11:06 GMT
OK. Saw it tonight. I'm about a bottle and a half of wine in so this review is what it is.
I'm not a purist but having said that, this was the first show I saw when I landed in the UK in 1989. I've seen several casts in London as well as the ludicrously spectacular but shallow Vegas production.
Tonight, I appreciated the very obvious hard work the cast, crew and FOH staff had put in. I loved the lighting, the clarity of sound and the sparkle of the visuals. I think if you had never seen it before, or if you were a casual theatre goer, you would think this was a blockbuster spectacular. My eyes and ears loved it, my heart did not.
Everything everyone has said is true. The proscenium is reduced. The bad is that the subtle underlying erotic quality is gone. The good is that the sheets flew off quietly and efficiently. The chandelier is intact and does what it promises, though I don't think it's any more thrilling in speed or size. The Angel is gone but I actually quite liked the horse sweeping to the front, revealing the Phantom. Yes, maybe the sound is not as full as before but nothing to alarm my untrained ears.
The one thing I lamented and very much regretted was not the physical aspects. It was the cast. The cast that moved me most, the cast that slapped me in the face and strangled my heart was the Gina Beck-Ramin Karimloo-Simon Bailey trinity. There was passion, authenticity and I really did feel for all three characters. Tonight, I felt nothing for any of them. Maybe it's early days but I came away feeling I had watched an expensive but ultimately hollow show. I don't know what was missing. Everyone was pitch perfect but to me, there was just zero chemistry between the leads. And that, ultimately was what let me down the most.
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Post by max on Jul 30, 2021 15:19:06 GMT
Aside from the changes - is Phantom a more esteemed show on Broadway? [Make that 'even more esteemed' if you're a big fan in the UK]. Any views on how it fits into the theatrical landscape of each country?
Maybe it's those recordings of the iconic Sammy Davis Junior singing 'Music Of The Night' when it was a new sensation (and his thanks to 'Andrew and Michael'), or that bit of extra mystique that bootlegs lend to Hugh Panaro and John Cudia's rendering of the title role. Or that Les Miserables didn't eclipse it to the same extent; and cast changes seem a bigger deal there.
Or am I just projecting that, because Broadway's 'distance lends enchantment'?
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Post by undeuxtrois on Jul 30, 2021 15:47:08 GMT
Aside from the changes - is Phantom a more esteemed show on Broadway? [Make that 'even more esteemed' if you're a big fan in the UK]. Any views on how it fits into the theatrical landscape of each country? Maybe it's those recordings of the iconic Sammy Davis Junior singing 'Music Of The Night' when it was a new sensation (and his thanks to 'Andrew and Michael'), or that bit of extra mystique that bootlegs lend to Hugh Panaro and John Cudia's rendering of the title role. Or that Les Miserables didn't eclipse it to the same extent; and cast changes seem a bigger deal there. Or am I just projecting that, because Broadway's 'distance lends enchantment'?
Never knew Sammy has sung that Heading to YouTube right away...
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Post by ronnette on Jul 30, 2021 17:41:37 GMT
Holly-Anne Hull is on tonight as Christine. Will be interested to hear reviews if anyone is in?
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Post by inthenose on Jul 30, 2021 17:49:58 GMT
Holly-Anne Hull is on tonight as Christine. Will be interested to hear reviews if anyone is in? She plays every Friday, according to her Twitter, so that's the new alternate's show day. |
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Post by richey on Jul 30, 2021 18:16:03 GMT
Holly-Anne Hull is on tonight as Christine. Will be interested to hear reviews if anyone is in? She plays every Friday, according to her Twitter, so that's the new alternate's show day. yep it's on their Instagram page too http://instagram.com/p/CR9K5FGLEkh |
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Post by sukhavati on Jul 31, 2021 2:44:31 GMT
There's a lot of gaslighting going on in media against fans of a beloved property. I've seen plenty of this in the entertainment industry. Someone expresses concerns regarding changes to a tv show/established character/story etc., then someone involved with the production throws insults at them rather than address the criticism. At the moment, Netflix released Masters of the Universe: Revelation and fans have raised concerns about changes to the characters. The creator Kevin Smith is going on a rampage telling them to grow up. What companies need to do is have a social media policy stopping their workers doing this sort of thing. Stop tweeting all day, be professional and do your job. Maybe this woman will get fired but a lot of companies like to circle their wagons. Makes me question what sort of creatives are now involved over at Her Majesty's It makes me think of the old studio system in Hollywood, where the talent would be taught pretty much everything, including media relations. Any below the line staff never needed that kind of training, but when SM puts stuff out there, it's forever and this girl is young and thoughtless enough to think it doesn't matter. Not to mention that everyone has gotten into the mindset that our opinions matter and reflect us. I am unhappy with the changes as anyone else, however, I also used to work for one of the major entertainment conglomerates for over a decade, and if any staff at any level swore at a customer or inside/outside stakeholder (including easing up on specific language that still had the same implication, i.e. "someone needs to get laid"), kiss your job goodbye. They were that strict. There's no excuse for being rude. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 7:54:51 GMT
Aside from the changes - is Phantom a more esteemed show on Broadway? [Make that 'even more esteemed' if you're a big fan in the UK]. Any views on how it fits into the theatrical landscape of each country? Over here I think Phantom on Broadway currently is regarded by regular or serious theatregoers as a tourist show or for diehard fans. It generally is not talked about unless some interesting casting occurs in the leads. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 20:18:01 GMT
Aside from the changes - is Phantom a more esteemed show on Broadway? [Make that 'even more esteemed' if you're a big fan in the UK]. Any views on how it fits into the theatrical landscape of each country? Over here I think Phantom on Broadway currently is regarded by regular or serious theatregoers as a tourist show or for diehard fans. It generally is not talked about unless some interesting casting occurs in the leads. I’d say much more esteemed in London. A handful of hardcore Phans aside, a true tourist trap in NYC. Like Chicago, plodding on forever in the lower half of the weekly published grosses. Must do better then break even I guess but keeping the record possibly a factor in them not putting it out of it’s misery. Desperately needs some TLC and decent resident direction. Did chuckle when people said they’d boycott London and only go in NYC now as they still have the “full” orchestra. Good luck being able to tell the difference over the talking/rustling/fumbling/eating! That’s one risky plane fare…. |
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Post by anthony on Jul 31, 2021 20:20:39 GMT
Over here I think Phantom on Broadway currently is regarded by regular or serious theatregoers as a tourist show or for diehard fans. It generally is not talked about unless some interesting casting occurs in the leads. I’d say much more esteemed in London. A handful of hardcore Phans aside, a true tourist trap in NYC. Like Chicago, plodding on forever in the lower half of the weekly published grosses. Must do better then break even I guess but keeping the record possibly a factor in them not putting it out of it’s misery. Desperately needs some TLC and decent resident direction. Did chuckle when people said they’d boycott London and only go in NYC now as they still have the “full” orchestra. Good luck being able to tell the difference over the talking/rustling/fumbling/eating! That’s one risky plane fare…. I just can't get over Christine falling to the floor at the end of 'Music of the Night' and the lower-quality version of 'Wandering Child' on Broadway... |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 31, 2021 23:09:14 GMT
Well, you'll have to get used to that in London now, as Seth has imported the MoTN staging from Broadway.
Fortunately, Broadway has for a few years started using the Wandering Child trio (with a slight difference after the trio ends, which is a hangover from the duo version).
Separately, I've heard there are concerns from associates of Björnson who did not work on this production about some of the alterations. It's a shame Cameron did not think to use their knowledge rather than hire Matt Kinley just so the latter could do what he said. After all, Hal Prince etc used Paul Kelly (who'd worked with Maria Björnson on Phantom previously) when adapting the design for Vegas. If they really felt the need to adapt Björnson's designs, then it would have been better IMHO to pick someone like him or Jonathan Allen.
Also, I don't think the Broadway audience is necessarily any less well behaved than London. My last couple of times seeing the show on Broadway were better than in London, where actually the fumbling/rustling/whispering were very prominent (my last experience in Her Maj's was rather ruined by a mother and daughter constantly munching through something and asking each other every 5 seconds whether they were 'Team Raoul' or 'Team Phantom'). And I don't think it's fair to say the 'tourist show' view in NYC is any more pronounced than it is in London. The make-up of the audience seems fairly similar in terms of foreign tourists v domestic audiences.
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Post by inthenose on Jul 31, 2021 23:13:19 GMT
The falling to the floor thing was, I was told, originally a dispute with American Equity as to what constituted a "stunt", and the liability issues related to insurance if one or other party injured themselves "catching" and carrying her. They decided to just avoid the drama and let her fall down herself. They subsequently blocked it here to match, by the sounds of it, with the director simply bringing the blocking he knows across the pond with him.
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4,026 posts
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 31, 2021 23:42:53 GMT
I remember some years ago seeing it done with Christine just falling to the floor because the Phantom actor, I htink it was Karimloo, had a bad back & couldn't catch her. It wasn't just the falling to the floor per say that I thought was less effective but that it then begged the question how she ended up in the boat if the Phantom didn't carry her to it.
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Post by inthenose on Aug 1, 2021 0:15:46 GMT
Yes, it did rather lose some magic seeing Christine get up, run to the boat and settle down during the blackout. Couldn't be helped, but it was a bit awkward, as Christine has to be downstage rightish to see the "mannequin", and the boat is centre stage leftish.
I'd have loved if she put the back of her hand to forehead, with an "oooh matron" shocked expression and staggered in slow motion to the boat, while gurning at the audience, then got in and went to sleep. Sort of like a campier Enjolras death.
Never, ever let me direct anything, ever.
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Post by Ade on Aug 1, 2021 9:33:44 GMT
Saw this last night and not being too regular of a visitor (have now seen it four times over 14 years) I have to say I didn’t mind a lot of the changes that have been made. It definitely felt like the lots of the original production was right there on stage and the rest felt like a solid nod to it.
I agree with plenty of the other posts that the new proscenium upon entry doesn’t compare, although my main gripe here is with the poor attempt to cover in sheeting rather than the proscenium design itself. A few napkins draped around the sides and the two (what look like) washing lines at the top just looks a bit cheap. That said I loved the addition of the set piece reforming and rising up from the stage. It gave something else to focus on after the chandelier had gone up and just made the whole fake proscenium on stage a little more impressive. About that chandelier, it’s quite the beast! If anything it almost felt a bit too big - so much so that it almost feels like there’s not quite enough detail too it and so it comes across a bit plastic-like. I’ve never been as close as I was last night so this might just be because I was nearer to it, but I started to wonder if Cam Mack had got the paper maché out and made his own. That said, everyone seemed to be lapping it up. In terms of some other noticeable changes, the horse at the end of act one I actually quite liked and got a gasp from a few around me, the post-interval fake curtain does look atrocious but thankfully is just used the once, and the lack of movement of the candelabras does make it ever so less dramatic but again most people won’t even notice.
For the sound I have to say I didn’t spot too much of a difference. In fact the only point where I noticed the lack of orchestra was during masquerade when the drummer is on stage and it immediately made me realise just how much better having some percussion down in the pit would have been. That said, I can’t imagine many would spot the difference if they weren’t already aware. Again I’m not sure if it’s because I was closer, but is the whole of the title track now mimed? It definitely appeared to be from my seat, as the vocals sounded noticeably different throughout. I was always under the impression that they were pre-recorded up to the boat’s appearance and then made a brief transition to live until Christine’s high notes at the end when the pre-recording kicks back in.
As for the performances, this is where the show was most lacking for me. Loved Lucy St Louis’s performance and her vocals were good overall but at times they just didn’t seem to have enough power. I liked to feel like I’m in a safe pair of hands with Christine, but I always had that ‘is she going to hit the note?’ feeling for some reason. Killian was good overall but definitely lacked the charisma - I just didn’t get a sense of why Christine would be so intrigued by him. Even in the final lair it just seemed to be lacking that despair that makes you feel for him.
All in all, it was still a solid 4 star. A very very similar production with a good, but just not the strongest, cast at the helm.
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Post by scarpia on Aug 1, 2021 10:05:11 GMT
The falling to the floor thing was, I was told, originally a dispute with American Equity as to what constituted a "stunt", and the liability issues related to insurance if one or other party injured themselves "catching" and carrying her. They decided to just avoid the drama and let her fall down herself. They subsequently blocked it here to match, by the sounds of it, with the director simply bringing the blocking he knows across the pond with him. Crawford told me they changed it because he had a hernia when the show went to Broadway. And I assume it then remained (and was re-exported everywhere else except London) as that's where the show was frozen. Oh dear...does this mean they no longer track across the stage after they rise up?! Please no. That was my other favourite moment in that sequence, so that's now two they've ruined. Cumulatively it becomes a dealbreaker for me personally. I could accept it in a bus-and-truck production but not the flagship. You've hit the nail on the head, there. I don't mind the new chandelier but something was amiss and I've worked it out. It's lack the beads that drape across the circumference that the original (and the real one at the Garnier) have. If they add that then it could look a lot more elegant. It ends the show too, sadly, during the playout. Not really the final image you'd want to go away with. No, it's always been mimed throughout. Some Christines have chosen to sing their vocalisations at the end live, but very rare for that to happen. |
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Post by Ade on Aug 1, 2021 10:36:29 GMT
Ah I guess I’ve never noticed the miming all the way through when I was a little further back. I wonder if it’s the new sound that made it more obvious or just because I was closer.
Forgot all about the fake curtain being used at the end as well!
And yep you’re exactly right on the chandelier - it just looks a bit clunky and lacks the elegance. One of those things where if it was 80% of the size that it is, it would probably look far more pleasing.
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Post by scarpia on Aug 1, 2021 10:44:14 GMT
So...the candelabra thing is how I interpreted it? They don't move horizontally any more?  |
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Post by anthony on Aug 1, 2021 11:19:18 GMT
How long is it taking to get into the theatre? I’ve seen pictures of queues around the theatre.
Going next week with an elderly relative (not my decision - IMO it’s too risky at the moment!). I’m concerned about him not being able to stand for so long outside, especially given the heat as apparently we will be in the middle of another heatwave…
Email says to arrive 30mins-1hour before curtain.
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Post by Ade on Aug 1, 2021 11:25:57 GMT
So...the candelabra thing is how I interpreted it? They don't move horizontally any more? Sorry yes it is. They just came straight up in position. At least they did last night… |
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Post by Ade on Aug 1, 2021 11:28:19 GMT
How long is it taking to get into the theatre? I’ve seen pictures of queues around the theatre. Going next week with an elderly relative (not my decision - IMO it’s too risky at the moment!). I’m concerned about him not being able to stand for so long outside, especially given the heat as apparently we will be in the middle of another heatwave… Email says to arrive 30mins-1hour before curtain. Took us about ten mins last night. Looked worse than it was because there were actually three different queues on the go. |
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Post by sukhavati on Aug 2, 2021 0:27:45 GMT
I remember some years ago seeing it done with Christine just falling to the floor because the Phantom actor, I htink it was Karimloo, had a bad back & couldn't catch her. It wasn't just the falling to the floor per say that I thought was less effective but that it then begged the question how she ended up in the boat if the Phantom didn't carry her to it. Michael Crawford also had a hernia injury whilst still at Her Majesty's. He stopped doing the catch after that, and that's how Hal Prince blocked it for NYC. |
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). I'd imagine they'll do a similar thing at Phantom if the swing who covers Beatrice is white - just put her on anyway. Maybe have her face upstage a little more than Beatrice did.
