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Post by Jon on Jul 5, 2024 11:23:07 GMT
Even if it's boring politics, I'll take that for the next five years.
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Post by vdcni on Jul 5, 2024 11:32:41 GMT
I remember things being a lot better under the last Labour Government! Among other things it was possible to get a wisdom tooth removed in less than 2 years…. On the other hand Gordon Brown as PM presided over the the financial crisis of 2007-2008 which saw the biggest UK recession in post-war history up until Covid with unemployment jumping from 5% to 8% in two years. But dentists, right. You mean during a global financial crisis that Labour didn't create and Brown's response was improving the situation before the Conservatives came in with extreme austerity and made things worse again and has led to the mess our public services are now in but yeah the Tories are so reliable right. |
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Post by Jan on Jul 5, 2024 11:35:24 GMT
On the other hand Gordon Brown as PM presided over the the financial crisis of 2007-2008 which saw the biggest UK recession in post-war history up until Covid with unemployment jumping from 5% to 8% in two years. But dentists, right. I think the ‘hope’ is based on the amount of relatively large amount of new faces and new energy. You can snipe all you like about the past, peoples past mistakes etc, but it doesn’t mean that Starmer will be the same. Oh don't worry about that, I will certainly snipe all I like because that's what Labour supporters have been doing for the past 14 years, you'll have to get used to it. |
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Post by Jon on Jul 5, 2024 11:37:55 GMT
The SNP loss in the GE does not bode well for them in the 2026 Scottish election unless they can turn things around.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 5, 2024 11:38:19 GMT
Waking up this morning I could cry I'm so happy. I've had a knot in my stomach for years from despising the Tory Government. That's all gone now. I'm not for a moment saying Labour are perfect, but for the first time in fourteen years, I feel hope. Give it a day or two Look. We've had fourteen years of lies, corruption and cheating. I don't care what anybody says. I am happy and I am going to enjoy this result. Just for a bit. A few weeks of happiness free of the cynicism and constant negativity. |
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Post by Jon on Jul 5, 2024 11:52:12 GMT
I see Lindsay Hoyle retained his seat, I do wonder why smaller parties bother standing against him, the speaker never loses.
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Post by danb on Jul 5, 2024 12:00:10 GMT
I think the ‘hope’ is based on the amount of relatively large amount of new faces and new energy. You can snipe all you like about the past, peoples past mistakes etc, but it doesn’t mean that Starmer will be the same. Oh don't worry about that, I will certainly snipe all I like because that's what Labour supporters have been doing for the past 14 years, you'll have to get used to it. Did Brown preside over 14 years of bare faced lying or have to prorogue the house to achieve his goals? |
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Post by ceebee on Jul 5, 2024 12:00:10 GMT
Well I guess there are plenty here who don't remember past Labour governments so we should allow them their brief moment of hope. I remember things being a lot better under the last Labour Government! Among other things it was possible to get a wisdom tooth removed in less than 2 years…. Same day if you're private. |
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Post by parsley1 on Jul 5, 2024 12:00:44 GMT
One can only hope
This is not new outfit syndrome
The novelty will wear off quickly
The chilling events in France
Are a stark reminder of where politics can go
The main challenge Labour have is to unite the country
Change cannot be for changes sake
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Post by londonmzfitz on Jul 5, 2024 12:08:51 GMT
I have Richard Tice, Reform UK, as my MP. I'm finding solace* in -
1. 24,935 people collectively didn't vote for Reform against the 15,520 that did.
2. Reform UK will be shown to be utter rubbish in the few seats they have and ultimately be scuppered for any future elections in the UK. Disbanded, ridiculed, reviled. Farage in the bin for all eternity.
Tice got 2,010 votes more than the incumbent Conservative; the area has been Conservative for the last 70 years. In 2019 the Conservative candidate (Matt Warman) got 34,528 votes, yesterday got 13,510. That's pretty decisive stuff.
*Still p*ssed off though.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 5, 2024 12:27:30 GMT
The Daily Mail is so furious over Starmer/Labour win that they tried to get the word ‘woke’ in the same sentence seventeen times,
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 5, 2024 12:54:26 GMT
It's a strange version of democracy when 34% of 60% gives a party 100% power.
In the 4½ hours I have spent at work so far today, my colleagues haven't mentioned the result once. Not once. That's how interested we all seem to be.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 5, 2024 13:03:12 GMT
I remember things being a lot better under the last Labour Government! Among other things it was possible to get a wisdom tooth removed in less than 2 years…. On the other hand Gordon Brown as PM presided over the the financial crisis of 2007-2008 which saw the biggest UK recession in post-war history up until Covid with unemployment jumping from 5% to 8% in two years. But dentists, right. Eh? It was a world banking recession. Gordon Brown saved capitalism |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 5, 2024 13:07:39 GMT
Look. We've had fourteen years of lies, corruption and cheating. I don't care what anybody says. I am happy and I am going to enjoy this result. Just for a bit. A few weeks of happiness free of the cynicism and constant negativity. I read that in the style of Steven Patrick Morrissey, am I misreading you? Horrible isn't when we had a dozen cabinet members lose their seats including Mordaunt and Schapps. Ress Mogg was beaten, Liz Truss didn't get elected but the best Portillo moment was Jonathan Ashworth losing |
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Post by jojo on Jul 5, 2024 13:34:17 GMT
On the other hand Gordon Brown as PM presided over the the financial crisis of 2007-2008 which saw the biggest UK recession in post-war history up until Covid with unemployment jumping from 5% to 8% in two years. But dentists, right. You mean during a global financial crisis that Labour didn't create and Brown's response was improving the situation before the Conservatives came in with extreme austerity and made things worse again and has led to the mess our public services are now in but yeah the Tories are so reliable right. It goes both ways. Labour/Brown didn't cause the global financial crisis which originated in the US due to dodgy sub-prime lending practices - amongst other things. There's a case to say he could have handled it better, although IMO he did a decent job, or that other things in how Labour managed the economy weren't great. Something was needed due to decades of under-investment by previous administrations, most notably the previous Tory one, but the reliance on PPP stored up a lot of problems. On the other hand, the fall-out from the financial crisis was far from over by the time the coalition took over, and while I'd agree some decisions were wrong and the financial crisis was used as a cover for some ideological cuts - especially the ones that came in after the 2015 election, the fall-out from the financial crash was a major contributing factor to a lot of the poverty. Businesses were going bust, redundancy was common and lots of people were defaulting on mortgages with a reduced tax base. There was always going to be more demand on public services and less money to spend on it. The 2010 Labour manifesto promised austerity too, something a lot of Labour activist conveniently forget. When challenged many Labour supporters will claim they'd have made different choices when it came to cuts, but the scale of cuts in the 2010 government were the same as proposed in the 2010 Labour manifesto. If we are being honest about the global financial crisis in 2008 not being Labour's fault, we should be equally honest that the continued fall-out after the 2010 wasn't (all) the fault of the Conservatives. Albeit the Conservatives were more than happy to let their voters think the financial crisis was Labour's fault and used that fallacy to introduce much more scathing cuts after the 2015 general election. |
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Post by Jon on Jul 5, 2024 13:38:41 GMT
I think after 13 years, people wanted change in 2010 and the same has happened here and in other places recently.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 5, 2024 13:53:34 GMT
You mean during a global financial crisis that Labour didn't create and Brown's response was improving the situation before the Conservatives came in with extreme austerity and made things worse again and has led to the mess our public services are now in but yeah the Tories are so reliable right. It goes both ways. Labour/Brown didn't cause the global financial crisis which originated in the US due to dodgy sub-prime lending practices - amongst other things. There's a case to say he could have handled it better, although IMO he did a decent job, or that other things in how Labour managed the economy weren't great. Something was needed due to decades of under-investment by previous administrations, most notably the previous Tory one, but the reliance on PPP stored up a lot of problems. On the other hand, the fall-out from the financial crisis was far from over by the time the coalition took over, and while I'd agree some decisions were wrong and the financial crisis was used as a cover for some ideological cuts - especially the ones that came in after the 2015 election, the fall-out from the financial crash was a major contributing factor to a lot of the poverty. Businesses were going bust, redundancy was common and lots of people were defaulting on mortgages with a reduced tax base. There was always going to be more demand on public services and less money to spend on it. The 2010 Labour manifesto promised austerity too, something a lot of Labour activist conveniently forget. When challenged many Labour supporters will claim they'd have made different choices when it came to cuts, but the scale of cuts in the 2010 government were the same as proposed in the 2010 Labour manifesto. If we are being honest about the global financial crisis in 2008 not being Labour's fault, we should be equally honest that the continued fall-out after the 2010 wasn't (all) the fault of the Conservatives. Albeit the Conservatives were more than happy to let their voters think the financial crisis was Labour's fault and used that fallacy to introduce much more scathing cuts after the 2015 general election. What do you think they could have done differently? More and earlier financial regulation? |
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Post by mkb on Jul 5, 2024 14:15:35 GMT
It's a strange version of democracy when 34% of 60% gives a party 100% power. ... That's my biggest takeaway from the results. Just one in five of the electorate determined 412 (probably 413 tomorrow) seats. Labour's vote as share of electorate: 2017: 28% 2019: 22% 2024: 20% Labour have haemorrhaged votes and were saved only by Farage splitting the opposition. It's definitely not an endorsement of Labour's manifesto, and that should be the permission that Starmer needs to listen to the electorate, modify course, and take bold, pledge-breaking action to boost the economy, such as rejoining the EU customs union. |
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Post by mkb on Jul 5, 2024 14:18:17 GMT
Also, how did the polls get the predictions of vote share so wrong?
We were led to expect Labour above 40%, not 33.7%, and the Tories under 20% when they got 23%.
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Post by mkb on Jul 5, 2024 14:24:31 GMT
StopTheTories.vote is the one that seems to have traction. I wish the organisers of these various websites would align their recommendations for constituencies that are difficult to call for second place. My neighbouring constituency of Hinckley & Bosworth has a recommendation of Labour on tactical.vote and Lib Dem on the other. Previous local results and polling evidence would back Lib Dem there, so I wonder if there are Labour vested interests involved in tactical.vote? StopTheTories.vote was the correct one. Tactical, anti-Tory voters in Hinckley and Bosworth should have gone Lib Dem. (Con won on 17.0k, Lib Dem 11.6k, Lab 8.6k). Wasted opportunity to oust a Tory. Sadly a lot of local Labour campaigners -- and I speak as a Labour voter -- couldn't be grown-up about it and tried to pretend to the electorate that they were the anti-Tory choice. |
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Post by mkb on Jul 5, 2024 14:27:57 GMT
For the very first time in my life (now aged 60), I had a vote (in a UK parliamentary, regional or local election) that actually counted. I managed to vote for the winner here in Nuneaton (Labour).
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Post by mkb on Jul 5, 2024 14:43:29 GMT
Sweetest moment: Truss losing by setting a new record of largest ever swing against a Tory to Labour. Jammiest winner: Iain Duncan Smith following Labour's ousting of Faiza Shaheen and the resulting Independent/Labour vote being split 50/50. Best joke: x.com/quantick/status/1809144233166614654 |
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Post by meister on Jul 5, 2024 14:52:24 GMT
Sweetest moment: Gillian Keegan being told by the people of my constituency that “No, actually, you are not doing a f@@@@ G good job!” and booting her out! Still bleating on in her concession speech about this year celebrating 40 years of full time employment (well done - you’ve had a job!). Entitled and out of touch - good riddance. |
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Post by aspieandy on Jul 5, 2024 16:21:41 GMT
Quite happy with first-past-the-post + informed tactical voting. The two are joined as one. With now, the internet, good phones and broadband, it feels like UK voters are getting more savvy as each election passes. Multiple, multiple examples last night going every which political way. Imo, last night - again - producted a national outcome that resonates; punishment for the guilty, luke warm acceptance (for one term only, not the assumption of two), warnings from the right on criminal, fee-paying migration, warnings from within and independents about cost of living issues for low paid/skilled. And Greens doubled votes while adding a seat.
Within all that, you have - like Truss's result - a constituency-level democracy, a 4-way split in that case.
Starmer has a mandate and an open road, but he is on notice to deliver. No nonsense coaltions, no excuse for other than strong government. 1stPTP wot dun it again.
The issue, folks, is what to do with the HoL.
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Post by kathryn on Jul 5, 2024 16:33:06 GMT
It’s the entire NHS - it took me 10 months to get a gynaecologist appointment, and having had a scan my follow up appointment is in January 2025!! And the justice system is a similar mess - it’s taking so long to get cases to court that suspects are actually on remand for longer than their sentence would be if found guilty. Don’t try and pretend that the Tories haven’t left everything in a worse state than when they came into office. |
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