Just Stop Oil Protest

[Deleted]

Well said Sukhavati, but I doubt the JCO mob would have the minds, patience and gravitas of the likes of MLK, Harry Belafonte, Jessie Jackson etc.

[juicy_but_terribly_drab]

I'm not saying I consider Just Stop Oil's methods the most effective or best way to go about achieving their aims, but for all the people referencing MLK Jr, I think this quote from him should always be on our minds:

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

If you aren't happy with Just Stop Oil's protests but you agree with them in theory, maybe stop directing your anger at them and start directing it at those in power who are actually far more deserving of that anger. If you think they should be going about bringing change in another way, why not do it yourself instead of doing the easy thing and ctnically judging them on an internet theatre forum.

It also feels like a lot of people when they invoke MLK Jr or the Suffragettes as examples of good protest forget that they were met with all kinds of resistance and similar claims from liberals who agreed with their cause but disagreed with their methods etc. and not all branches of either cause we're peaceful.

[Negamuse]

Oct 6, 2023 8:04:00 GMT sukhavati said:

The civil rights movement in America relied on peaceful protests to start the process of change.

There was some of both, as there should be. In the UK we had Cable Street. Same with LGBT rights, Stonewall was a riot.

I profoundly disagree with stage invasion, it breaks the fundamental contract of live theatre and is distressing and possibly dangerous for the performers. But the nature of protest is to do things that people profoundly disagree with, it's the point of the thing. Especially when with the climate the stakes are so incredibly high.

I sympathise with the people who had their day out ruined but there are refunds and Les Mis will be there tomorrow. We need to remember, there's no musical theatre on a dead planet.

[christya]

Everything I've heard about MLK and the protests organised says that they were protests that made sense. The bus boycott, because of specific issues with buses. Sit-ins, in places where black people were normally not welcome. And of course marches, which have been common to almost every protest movement.

As for the suffragettes - they were dangerous terrorists who quite possibly delayed women getting the right to vote, and are portrayed far too kindly by history.

JSO haven't the common sense of MLK and his movement, and don't deserve to be spoken of in the same sentence. I absolutely will not respond to their ridiculous, self-indulgent protests in any way other than to want them stopped.

[anthony40]

The Metropolitan police issued a statement this morning:

This is from WhatsOnStage

www.whatsonstage.com/news/police-issue-appeal-following-les-miserables-disruption_1533745/?smclient=49cd452f-6b66-11ed-bcae-18cf24ce3548&utm_source=salesmanago&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=wnl-6october2023

[londonmzfitz]

Oct 6, 2023 11:12:35 GMT anthony40 said:

The Metropolitan police issued a statement this morning:

This is from WhatsOnStage

www.whatsonstage.com/news/police-issue-appeal-following-les-miserables-disruption_1533745/?smclient=49cd452f-6b66-11ed-bcae-18cf24ce3548&utm_source=salesmanago&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=wnl-6october2023

Screw that!  Supplying incriminating evidence of their actions to the Police?  In the week of the C4 Partygate documentary where people got fines of £10,000 while the (bloody hell, can't even find a word that doesn't contain expletives) did the WTF (Wine Time Fridays)?  
Screw that!

[ceebee]

Oct 6, 2023 11:12:35 GMT anthony40 said:

The Metropolitan police issued a statement this morning:

This is from WhatsOnStage

www.whatsonstage.com/news/police-issue-appeal-following-les-miserables-disruption_1533745/?smclient=49cd452f-6b66-11ed-bcae-18cf24ce3548&utm_source=salesmanago&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=wnl-6october2023

Ages of 18, 19, 22, 23... says it all.  Pontificating and preaching to the masses with next-to-nothing in terms of life experience.

[Jon]

I wonder if the four individuals will be banned from every theatre in London?

[londonmzfitz]

Note -
Young people are allowed to have an opinion / protest.
Middle aged people are allowed to have an opinion / protest.
Retired old has-beens are allowed to have an opinion / protest.
People named Tarquin or Jemima are allowed to have an opinion / protest.

In summary. This thread has collectively called the JSO protestors
Losers
Pathetic attention seekers
Imbeciles
YouTube pranksters
self-serving scrotes
absolute bunch of arseholes / need to be dragged out by any means necessary
attention-seeking tossers / a bunch of disruptive hi-vis middle class fannies / spineless
either silly little student kids or retired old has-beens
flaccid little Tarquin and Jemima sorts, or retired pensioners from the home counties
selfish brats

and further said

JSO is a doomsday cult

I don't agree with their tactics, I really don't. They seem to be passionate about the cause and that's something I can get behind, that passion, that cause.

[oxfordsimon]

But they alienate more than they persuade. Which means they are failing.

Passion is fine. But it has to be channelled correctly for it to be effective.

They aren't noble. They are actively bad for the cause they seek to champion.

[BVM]

Oct 6, 2023 12:24:14 GMT londonmzfitz said:

Note -
Young people are allowed to have an opinion / protest.
Middle aged people are allowed to have an opinion / protest.
Retired old has-beens are allowed to have an opinion / protest.
People named Tarquin or Jemima are allowed to have an opinion / protest.

In summary. This thread has collectively called the JSO protestors
Losers
Pathetic attention seekers
Imbeciles
YouTube pranksters
self-serving scrotes
absolute bunch of arseholes / need to be dragged out by any means necessary
attention-seeking tossers / a bunch of disruptive hi-vis middle class fannies / spineless
either silly little student kids or retired old has-beens
flaccid little Tarquin and Jemima sorts, or retired pensioners from the home counties
selfish brats

and further said

JSO is a doomsday cult

I don't agree with their tactics, I really don't. They seem to be passionate about the cause and that's something I can get behind, that passion, that cause.

Well said!

I've found it slightly surprising/sad how one sided the thread on here has been.

Not saying am a fan of JSO (am not especially and I do agree in certain media interviews, certain members do come across as rather unlikeable no doubt) - however, EVERYONE has a right to protest. And whether or not I am pro or anti what happened at Les Mis, am still not quite sure. I AM sure that it's far more nuanced than many of the positions on here. And interestingly theatre social media has given a much more mixed response. 

Would also say (and kinda gone into devil's advocate mode) that even if you disagree with them the conversation here has kinda said they think their tactics are wrong but then it's edged at what "right" tactics might look like. Which is good. So there are 4 pages of discussion with the environment as the back drop that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Also - come on - starting a protest at Les Mis at the point they sing "will you join in our crusade" - there is something in that! (Not saying I support it. Obviously I see if you are a one off visitor to the show as a special treat - that that is c**p). But really, I do find it nuanced. And as ever, we all don't need to have an extreme response! Though, yeah, I get it, it's 2023.

Also, if they are doing a bad job, who exactly IS doing a great job of meaningful protest to alert this dreadful government that the planet is dying?

[BVM]

Oct 6, 2023 12:58:32 GMT oxfordsimon said:

But they alienate more than they persuade. Which means they are failing.

Passion is fine. But it has to be channelled correctly for it to be effective.

They aren't noble. They are actively bad for the cause they seek to champion.

Dunno if they are.

We are (still) talking about it.

Like for all the musicals - no such thing as bad publicity?

Also they aren't actively bad for the cause - at worst they are neutral. There are very very very few people who would think "well I kinda care about the environment, but actually I hate JSO, so yeah thinking about it, I don't give a **** about the environment."

The worst they are for the cause is ineffectual. As perhaps they are not doing a great job at bringing people on the fence along with the cause. But they don't turn people with the cause against it. IMHO.

Apologies - not specifically directed at you Simon - my views on all the similar posts!

[ceebee]

Maybe the thread feels one-sided because most rational people think JSO are a bunch of antagonistic self-serving disruptive a-holes.

[David J]

The sad thing is a lot of youths today, with high inflation and the job ladder becoming increasingly challenging, are more inclined to make a movement their own identity when they have nothing meaningful in life to do.

Same with a lot of movements nowadays

So they will be willing to do stupid stunts and whenever any reasonable voice tells them a counterpoint they put their fingers in their ears and shout the ist words to shut out anything that shatters not only their world view but who they’ve built themselves up to be

[nash16]

Atypical of our current, disgusting government.

Just wanting to check you’re not equating what I wrote with them? Before I involve Admins…

Oct 5, 2023 19:44:38 GMT paulbrownsey said:

Oct 5, 2023 10:48:53 GMT ceebee said:

If you're quoting BTTF, I think "...you're children are gonna love it..."  would be more appropriate.  JSO is a childish attempt at disruptive anarchy by people with no purpose in life - they're either silly little student kids or retired old has-beens, all of whom think soft protests will make a difference.  They look decidly amateur compared to more organised groups. This is while the oil companies tolerate them, because they pose little or no threat other than to sway public opinion against their cause.  JSO are the biggest threat to green goals and ambitions - rich-backer funded anarchy.  It's Brexit all over again.

"I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right."  

That reminds me of a Home Office psychiatrist many years ago who said that the more gay people insist they're gay, that shows they're really heterosexual deep down.

[sph]

I think that while yes, you could say Stonewall was a riot, it was an in-the-moment reaction in a time and place specific to its cause. Jumping on a musical theatre stage to protest fossil fuels is incongruous really, an attempt to grab headlines and I honestly don't think anyone is more "aware" of climate change than they were a few days ago as a result.

Also, remember that in the current climate, especially in a crowded theatre in a capital city, there is always the potential threat of a terrorist attack. These people turned out to be relatively peaceful protestors, but in those first few moments when they charged the stage, it must have been a pretty scary moment for all those in the building. I mean they could have been attackers with knives or worse for all anyone knew.

[BVM]

Not saying JSO are good people, am really not. Many are awful!
They are also not clones. Individuals have different motivations and intentions.

But they have a right to do it. And this "stunt" HAS got people talking.

And as the head missionary woman says in Guys and Dolls when it's revealed that the lads are only in the mission due to gambling - "you see, it just goes to show how good can come out of evil." Maybe there is a dash of that.

There are also a lot of protestors in history who we romanticise now who were absolutely hated at the time.

I think it's nuanced.

[Jon]

Oct 6, 2023 8:18:49 GMT @theatrefan62 said:

Oct 5, 2023 12:11:56 GMT toomasj said:

Absolutely this. It’s so tone deaf and inept it feels like a false flag operation. Completely idiotic from JSO.

To be honest, every time I've seen a rep for JSO be interviewed they don't seem the brightest. They also (instead of answering the questions directly to them) just repeat the same stats over and over, its like theyve been brainwashed and mustn't stray from the script.

We all know the climate crisis. Their behaviour won't change climate change deniers minds, and they just alienate people who do believe it.

JSO always comes across on TV really badly. 

[BVM]

Oct 6, 2023 13:23:14 GMT sph said:

I think that while yes, you could say Stonewall was a riot, it was an in-the-moment reaction in a time and place specific to its cause. Jumping on a musical theatre stage to protest fossil fuels is incongruous really, an attempt to grab headlines and I honestly don't think anyone is more "aware" of climate change than they were a few days ago as a result.

Also, remember that in the current climate, especially in a crowded theatre in a capital city, there is always the potential threat of a terrorist attack. These people turned out to be relatively peaceful protestors, but in those first few moments when they charged the stage, it must have been a pretty scary moment for all those in the building. I mean they could have been attackers with knives or worse for all anyone knew.

I do agree it could have been and that's very unpleasant.

(That said I follow all the Les Mis cast on social media - one of my fave shows of all time - and most of their reactions on there suggest it wasn't thankfully).

[oxfordsimon]

Oct 6, 2023 13:28:00 GMT BVM said:

Not saying JSO are good people, am really not. Many are awful!
They are also not clones. Individuals have different motivations and intentions.

But they have a right to do it. And this "stunt" HAS got people talking.

And as the head missionary woman says in Guys and Dolls when it's revealed that the lads are only in the mission due to gambling - "you see, it just goes to show how good can come out of evil." Maybe there is a dash of that.

There are also a lot of protestors in history who we romanticise now who were absolutely hated at the time.

I think it's nuanced.

But it hasn't got people talking about the issue. All we are discussing is their tactics.

That isn't advancing the cause they claim to represent.

[paulbrownsey]

Oct 6, 2023 13:21:23 GMT nash16 said:

Atypical of our current, disgusting government.

Just wanting to check you’re not equating what I wrote with them? Before I involve Admins…

Oct 5, 2023 19:44:38 GMT paulbrownsey said:

"I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right."  

That reminds me of a Home Office psychiatrist many years ago who said that the more gay people insist they're gay, that shows they're really heterosexual deep down.

I was drawing attention to a bizarre mode of reasoning exemplified in both cases: "If someone insists on X, that proves that really, deep down, they think the opposite."

Ultimately, it's the same reasoning as in, "Oh, I know you're saying No to me, but that just shows that deep down you really want it."

Very dubious *logic* in every case.

[oxfordsimon]

Interesting to note that Dale Vince is abandoning Just Stop Oil as he’s come to the conclusion that “further protests and the disruption that comes with them  are pointless” and are actually “counterproductive”. He says he won’t give them any more funding.

[londonmzfitz]

Oct 6, 2023 13:16:22 GMT ceebee said:

Maybe the thread feels one-sided because most rational people think JSO are a bunch of antagonistic self-serving disruptive a-holes.

Not provoking argument, honest, but have you ever felt so passionate about something you've signed a petition, or taken to the streets to make your feelings known?  My point being, are people only allowed to protest about something you personally feel strongly about?  Is it JSO - their tactics - their targets?

One of the vids I saw online was a woman being driven to a hospital appointment and held up in traffic, demanding JSO stop their slow march because she was pregnant (where her partner, the driver, had crashed into another vehicle, got out in a temper and smacked one of the JSO to the ground).  Wouldn't the tube have been easier?

One of the vids I saw online was a woman in an Uber taking her kids across London to catch a flight, demanding JSO stop their slow march because they were going to miss their flight and disrupt the kids holiday.

People on this forum might know about the dangers to our planet, but it seems to be completely missed on some.

[Deleted]

Oct 6, 2023 14:22:11 GMT oxfordsimon said:

But it hasn't got people talking about the issue. All we are discussing is their tactics.

That isn't advancing the cause they claim to represent.

Exactly this!  It hasn't brought more attention to the cause, it has caused only discussion of them and their tactics.

Personally, I can't stand JSO, every time they are on TV, they're completely unlikeable and arrogant.  Reading their posts on Twitter / X, anybody that disagrees with anything they have done usually comes back with aggression and 'you just want the world to die'.  


While I completely stand behind making the world greener, they have really done nothing to move forward their cause.  With all the protests and gluing themselves to anything, throwing paint over buildings, hanging banners and the rest of their protests, the government then scaled back their net-zero targets - so in effect they have achieved exactly nothing beyond peeing off the general public.  I bet there was zero consideration for someone that saved for ages and paid out £200-£300 on train tickets per person to travel from the north, paid likely over £100 for a hotel and then the cost of the tickets to see the show as a special occasion, and had the night ruined.  If they wanted to create change, peaceful protest out the front of the Conservative Conference, or go for their usual throw paint and glue themselves to the floor - would have hit the headlines without ruining someone night out.

[oxfordsimon]

I think it is perfectly reasonable for a pregnant woman to choose to be driven to a hospital appointment. The air quality on the underground is considerably worse than that at ground street level.

And I can perfectly well understand the frustration that a parent would feel about having their family holiday be put at risk.

JSO have chosen the wrong tactics and the wrong targets. They have just lost their biggest individual donor because he now believes that their protests are counterproductive.