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Post by Jan on Oct 5, 2023 13:37:05 GMT
Did these idiots buy tickets or did they invade the theatre? If the latter, it’s worrying re security. They buy tickets, for this and the sporting events they disrupt. They are usually in the most expensive seats too. Because they can afford them.
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Post by ceebee on Oct 5, 2023 13:41:53 GMT
Did these idiots buy tickets or did they invade the theatre? If the latter, it’s worrying re security. They buy tickets, for this and the sporting events they disrupt. They are usually in the most expensive seats too. Because they can afford them. Or their millionaire benefactors can afford them. It's the cheapest form of activism, carrying out the funded dictats of others all in the name of a cause that is divisive yet many people would actually like to see proper progress and solutions proferred.
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Post by nash16 on Oct 5, 2023 13:42:18 GMT
Because (and hold another front page for this, and maybe sit down before you read on) people can be theatre lovers and not want themselves or future generations to die because of how we are treating the planet in the way we are. This might take a while to process though. Steady yourself. Well, your utopia is on fire, babes. I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right. “But my night out! My night OUT!!” JSO defenders live in a peculiar no-man's land where almost any amount of petty, untargeted cruelty can be excused, but actually mounting direct resistance against the forces driving climate change is somehow infeasible. If JSO are "right", then what are you even doing on this forum? Why are you treating yourself to "nights out" while simultaneously decrying "nights out" as selfish, privileged diversions that nobody is entitled to enjoy?
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Post by Jan on Oct 5, 2023 13:42:29 GMT
Surely protesting at the currently ongoing Tory party conference in Manchester would have been better? I know common sense is seemingly lacking when it comes to their choices in protest locations but still.... Absolutely. This is bigger than just this. This government have single-handedly destroyed our country in the last decade. We are an embarrassment. They should protest at the top, not at those who are working so hard to keep the country going. I don’t imagine there’s any oil used in the production of Les Mis. I imagine every single person in the Les Mis audience uses oil and gas though, and they could all stop doing so couldn't they ? JSO regard all of us as legitimate targets, they don't care, something they have in common with terrorist organisations.
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Post by ceebee on Oct 5, 2023 13:45:15 GMT
Because (and hold another front page for this, and maybe sit down before you read on) people can be theatre lovers and not want themselves or future generations to die because of how we are treating the planet in the way we are. This might take a while to process though. Steady yourself. JSO defenders live in a peculiar no-man's land where almost any amount of petty, untargeted cruelty can be excused, but actually mounting direct resistance against the forces driving climate change is somehow infeasible. If JSO are "right", then what are you even doing on this forum? Why are you treating yourself to "nights out" while simultaneously decrying "nights out" as selfish, privileged diversions that nobody is entitled to enjoy? You're starring in your own melodrama. Future generations won't die, because smart humans create smart solutions (rather than tipping orange powder over stuff like a spoilt little degenerate toddler).
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Post by Jan on Oct 5, 2023 13:59:40 GMT
Because (and hold another front page for this, and maybe sit down before you read on) people can be theatre lovers and not want themselves or future generations to die because of how we are treating the planet in the way we are. This might take a while to process though. Steady yourself. You're starring in your own melodrama. Future generations won't die, because smart humans create smart solutions (rather than tipping orange powder over stuff like a spoilt little degenerate toddler). JSO is a doomsday cult. There have been many throughout history and will be many more in future. One common factor to them is that their adherents never recognise that they are in such a cult - "No, this time is different ! the world really is going to end !". In this case any problems will be solved gradually by adaptation and scientific advance, not by demanding on pain of imprisonment that I shell out £20k on a heat pump in 2030.
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Post by mkb on Oct 5, 2023 14:08:54 GMT
Because (and hold another front page for this, and maybe sit down before you read on) people can be theatre lovers and not want themselves or future generations to die because of how we are treating the planet in the way we are. This might take a while to process though. Steady yourself. If you can steal yourself from the snarky put-downs for a second, reflect on the fact that I (and I would hazard a majority of board users) largely agree with the aims of JSO. Why we despair is because JSO are actively setting back action by their methods that persuade people that their cause is the side of lunatics and fanatics. I could weep, I really could, for the environmental problems we are bequeathing next generations.
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Post by anthony40 on Oct 5, 2023 14:15:01 GMT
I get that they have a point to prove but I wonder when planning this if it was Les Miz specifically, and why? I mean there are so many shows currently running and they could have had their pick.
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Post by solangelafitte on Oct 5, 2023 14:25:57 GMT
I get that they have a point to prove but I wonder when planning this if it was Les Miz specifically, and why? I mean there are so many shows currently running and they could have had their pick. Longest running, arguably most recognisable. Plus they got up during Do You Hear the People Sing?, the big rallying song asking people to join in their crusade.
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Post by crowblack on Oct 5, 2023 14:37:51 GMT
If I were in the oil industry and intent on promoting it, I would be covertly funding JSO. JSO is more successful than any lobby group in driving public opinion against support for green policies. This is why they are "tolerated" by oil firms. You've hit the nail on the head (not about funding) but about them being self-defeating in trying to persuade public opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if they turned out to be working for the oil industry, like the 'militants' in Alan Bleasdale's GBH, tarring the image of Labour for a generation and who turn out to be a bunch of posh agents provocteurs at the end . The opening of that new oil field last week passed with less mainstream protest than I'd have expected. This is such an important issue and they're turning it into some sort of middle class scout badge collection.
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Post by Jan on Oct 5, 2023 14:42:44 GMT
If you can steal yourself from the snarky put-downs for a second, reflect on the fact that I (and I would hazard a majority of board users) largely agree with the aims of JSO. The only concrete aim they've expressed that I'm aware of is that UK should stop new North Sea oil and gas production. Hence we should instead import our oil and gas from Norway and the Middle East with the associated extra transport CO2 emissions, and instead of collecting petroleum revenue tax of between 40% and 75% on that production that they could spend on green energy initiatives the government should instead get no production tax at all. So no, I don't think I do agree with that aim.
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Post by crowblack on Oct 5, 2023 14:51:12 GMT
We used to live a more sustainable lifestyle - the environmental footprint of daily life in the 1980s was far greener than today, where people think it's some sort of human right to dress and eat like it's midsummer in December. We need a campaign to go back to that, with the more energy efficient technology of now. And cheap or free public transport to get more people off the roads. The train website I use now has a 'pay in three' option! That's where we are now - for a train journey! Electric cars are not the answer - they're heavier causing more wear on roads, more tyre debris washing into oceans, and they're a fire hazard.
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Post by ceebee on Oct 5, 2023 14:52:53 GMT
This is why they are "tolerated" by oil firms. You've hit the nail on the head (not about funding) but about them being self-defeating in trying to persuade public opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if they turned out to be working for the oil industry, like the 'militants' in Alan Bleasdale's GBH, tarring the image of Labour for a generation and who turn out to be a bunch of posh agents provocteurs at the end . The opening of that new oil field last week passed with less mainstream protest than I'd have expected. This is such an important issue and they're turning it into some sort of middle class scout badge collection. It's a credible conspiracy theory. When asked about the JSO protestors outside the London office of a major UK oil firm, an exec said "they have a right to protest peacefully provided they don't endanger or intimidate our people". I.e. "we tolerate them because they pose no real threat". These firms spend millions on mitigation strategies for activist actions, and JSO simply do not register on the credibility scale. Other groups are "heard" and sometimes even enter into discussions with such firms. These conversations are not disclosed because these firms also know there are rogue agents working on the inside. JSO is not a credible or sensible group of people and they are mocking the efforts of more credible people through their lame efforts. I am not an environmentalist myself but could weep for the steadfast and earnest efforts of others which are undermined by the prattish behaviour of the JSO idiots. Hence, the government is confident enough to row back on oil field pledges and issue new licences (while they still can) which guarantee oil production for the next 40-80 years based on lifecycle management (40 being the yield required to be a profitable long-term investment). Even with carbon capture/recovery/storage, there is still a footprint and the products drilled certainly don't help the ambitious goals of net-zero. The game changer will be in affordable alternative energy solutions, but we are not there yet. 2050 is a more realistic target for net-zero goals, and in the meantime we can all do our bit to help make the planet a better place for all. But JSO don't want that - let's face it, in a few years, half of the JSO cohort will be dead, the other half will have grown up and be living in suburbia with 2.4 kids and a labrador, and JSO will be a footnote on how not to do political or environmental activism.
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Post by Jon on Oct 5, 2023 16:23:12 GMT
I do find it funny people are suggesting FOH of the Sondheim should have got involved to stop JSO, if it had been say a terrorist or hostage incident, would we suggesting they get involved?
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Post by Someone in a tree on Oct 5, 2023 17:21:05 GMT
I do find it funny people are suggesting FOH of the Sondheim should have got involved to stop JSO, if it had been say a terrorist or hostage incident, would we suggesting they get involved? The ushers could of lobbed ice creams at them
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Post by paulbrownsey on Oct 5, 2023 19:44:38 GMT
Yes, was thinking of exactly that moment. And Cam M’s horror captured on film for all time. He deeserves nothing less. People’s attitudes of “how DARE you ruin my evening out” are… Reading a lot of the reactions on here is actually quite scary. What did he sing in BTTF? “My myopia is my utopia.” Well, your utopia is on fire, babes. I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right. “But my night out! My night OUT!!” We’re screwed. If you're quoting BTTF, I think "...you're children are gonna love it..." would be more appropriate. JSO is a childish attempt at disruptive anarchy by people with no purpose in life - they're either silly little student kids or retired old has-beens, all of whom think soft protests will make a difference. They look decidly amateur compared to more organised groups. This is while the oil companies tolerate them, because they pose little or no threat other than to sway public opinion against their cause. JSO are the biggest threat to green goals and ambitions - rich-backer funded anarchy. It's Brexit all over again. "I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right." That reminds me of a Home Office psychiatrist many years ago who said that the more gay people insist they're gay, that shows they're really heterosexual deep down.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Oct 5, 2023 19:52:56 GMT
It would be interesting to see research on whether exposure to these sorts of protests makes people *less* sympathetic to moves to combat climate and environmental crises. If government regulations are going to make your life more difficult and/or more expensive and then you get prevented from getting to a hospital appointment or have a night out ruined by JSO protests, might there not be a tendency to think, "Oh, to hell with the whole business" and, with that, a tendency to support Sunak's watering down of relevant measures? Yes, research could be intertesting.
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Oct 5, 2023 20:23:30 GMT
This is just terrible! Surely they had to have purchased a ticket to get in? What about security checks at the theatre? The powder can easily to concealed on the body, in a phone case, a make up bag etc. The ushers/security are likely checking for alchol, knives etc so I wouldn't blame them. I'd like to know where they were sat as they must have approached the stage and got up onto it. Not like just hopping a barrier as they did at the snooker. A lot of these protesters are rich kids so I guess they afford a ticket pretty easily. Stalls B - according to a audience member on X. They tried intervening. I just think these morons are rich kids who are entitled and like the sound of their own voice. Also - cannot believe how audience members were berating FOH staff. As if it was their fault?!?! Would also like to say how EPIC stage management are too in their handling of this unexpected ambush.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 20:26:39 GMT
What would have happened if someone from the audience had decided to drag one of the eco zealots off the stage or pulled their hand off the barricade. With today's society they would probably be done for assault.
When the protesters tried to block the highways before I think Burning Man festival in the US the footage of the sheriffs driving through their baracade is how you should handle this lot.
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Post by punxsutawney on Oct 5, 2023 20:33:54 GMT
What would have happened if someone from the audience had decided to drag one of the eco zealots off the stage or pulled their hand off the barricade. With today's society they would probably be done for assault. When the protesters tried to block the highways before I think Burning Man festival in the US the footage of the sheriffs driving through their baracade is how you should handle this lot. They'd probably be done for assault because it would be assault. Just because the protest is one you disagree with doesn't give you a right to take matters into your hands, you are not security and you are not police and you should not be getting physical with them.
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Oct 5, 2023 20:34:10 GMT
^ that's what I was thinking.
In the footage; the cast leave the stage and the stage management give them a wide bearth.
I wonder if West End shows are briefed on this scenario.
With security checks, I think they are not thorough enough; I don't mind them rummaging through / taking their time - reassures me if anything, especially in the kind of world we live in now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 20:46:36 GMT
What would have happened if someone from the audience had decided to drag one of the eco zealots off the stage or pulled their hand off the barricade. With today's society they would probably be done for assault. When the protesters tried to block the highways before I think Burning Man festival in the US the footage of the sheriffs driving through their baracade is how you should handle this lot. They'd probably be done for assault because it would be assault. Just because the protest is one you disagree with doesn't give you a right to take matters into your hands, you are not security and you are not police and you should not be getting physical with them. I agree it is assault but at say a concert say someone jumps on stage and makes beeline for a star and their security takes them to the ground. The star's security may be twice the size of any have a go person too. A security qualification doesn't give to the same rights as a police officer. I understand pulling someone's hand off would be painful but if they have been stupid enough to glue it on then why should they have rights. Its like when the police escort those EDL knuckle draggers when they march through a BAME area for example.
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Post by sukhavati on Oct 6, 2023 8:04:00 GMT
The civil rights movement in America relied on peaceful protests to start the process of change. Granted some police departments reacted in a violent fashion, but it took time. JSO would do better to put their money where their collective mouths are, get rid of their autos, take public transport or ride bikes. They could be encouraging others to do the same, or promoting alternative environmentally friendly methods of locomotion (not that I trust electric cars - the batteries are a huge problem waiting to happen once it's time to replace them). Rather than infringing on ordinary people they've got to find a way to make it cool to encourage average citizens to cut back on petroleum products. No one is talking about plastics, another petroleum product with an afterlife of hundreds of years before biodegrading. Not a lot of discussion about fast fashion, one of the biggest polluting industries on the planet. But the biggest polluters affecting the ozone layer are China and India. Doubt it will be possible to convince either country to change their ways when they're trying to keep up with Western standards of living. I doubt the Indian government or Chinese government would put up with JSO's antics.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2023 8:18:49 GMT
Every time they pull crap like this, they just help out the next politician who wants to further restrict protests. Front page means nothing when what people are talking about is that they're a bunch of idiots who need to be stopped from doing this sort of thing. Absolutely this. It’s so tone deaf and inept it feels like a false flag operation. Completely idiotic from JSO. To be honest, every time I've seen a rep for JSO be interviewed they don't seem the brightest. They also (instead of answering the questions directly to them) just repeat the same stats over and over, its like theyve been brainwashed and mustn't stray from the script. We all know the climate crisis. Their behaviour won't change climate change deniers minds, and they just alienate people who do believe it.
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Post by mkb on Oct 6, 2023 8:38:15 GMT
The civil rights movement in America relied on peaceful protests to start the process of change. Granted some police departments reacted in a violent fashion, but it took time. JSO would do better to put their money where their collective mouths are, get rid of their autos, take public transport or ride bikes. They could be encouraging others to do the same, or promoting alternative environmentally friendly methods of locomotion (not that I trust electric cars - the batteries are a huge problem waiting to happen once it's time to replace them). Rather than infringing on ordinary people they've got to find a way to make it cool to encourage average citizens to cut back on petroleum products. No one is talking about plastics, another petroleum product with an afterlife of hundreds of years before biodegrading. Not a lot of discussion about fast fashion, one of the biggest polluting industries on the planet. But the biggest polluters affecting the ozone layer are China and India. Doubt it will be possible to convince either country to change their ways when they're trying to keep up with Western standards of living. I doubt the Indian government or Chinese government would put up with JSO's antics. Encouraging or mandating changed behaviour could provide instant wins. Recycling in the UK is a half-hearted voluntary arrangement that swathes of the population ignore. And the amount of energy wasted drives me mad. Shops with open fridges, buildings with doors and windows open while they're being heated/cooled. It should be made a civil offence to knowingly waste energy.
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