A Strange Loop - Barbican

[MoreLife]

Jul 20, 2023 8:36:44 GMT ladidah said:

I think it was always going to be a hard show to consistently sell - it's not one for tourists or people looking for an easy, fun night out.

To be fair, I can count on my fingers the times I have been to see shows at the Barbican, but aside from 'Anything goes'  I don't remember them programming a lot of material that is meant to make for an easy, fun night out.  I really don't think they generally count on tourists or hen do group bookings to fill their seats  

[shownut]

Jul 19, 2023 23:12:26 GMT robertb213 said:

Jul 19, 2023 19:42:16 GMT intoanewlife said:

I'll take a self indulgent ghey over the usual twee 'will they/won't they end up together' (spoiler - they will) hetero borefests that infest musical theatre like the plague and then run for 100 years x

Great, have fun! But you couldn't pay me to sit through this whining pity party again. As a gay man I'd rather spend the evening with the "predictable" straights, sorry! 🤣

Well, since the conversation has gone in this direction...

As a gay man who grew up in the American Bible Belt in a very religious community, and one who struggled with his sense of self, body image and acceptance of his own sexuality, this show spoke to me a LOT.

I envy any gay person who can watch this show and not feel impacted by many facets of the story. If you are an adult member of the LGBTQ+ community who has NOT dealt/struggled with homophobia, a negative self/body image, or a community that, at large, only takes an interest in you if you are what passes for "hot", then bully for you. I hope you know how lucky you truly are and yes, if that is the case, you will probably not connect with this show. 

But I do find it sad that you consider the subject matter of this show to be a 'whining pity party' when it covers some bold ground for a musical and dares to navigate the form in a new, frank and inventive way. You clearly missed a lot here.

[Being Alive]

For reference (and in truly not being obtuse) I AM an adult member of the LGBTQ+ community who has dealt/struggled with homophobia, a negative self/body image, or a community that, at large, only takes an interest in you if you are what passes for "hot"...

and this show didn't speak to me at all on any level.

[shorn]

Jul 20, 2023 11:56:00 GMT Being Alive said:

For reference (and in truly not being obtuse) I AM an adult member of the LGBTQ+ community who has dealt/struggled with homophobia, a negative self/body image, or a community that, at large, only takes an interest in you if you are what passes for "hot"...

and this show didn't speak to me at all on any level.

Same on all counts.

I'm not surprised to see some comments here about how gay people should like it. During my life some of the most judgemental comments I've had have come from gay community for me daring to not like/like something I apparently should/shouldn't.

[toomasj]

There is suddenly quite a bit of snottiness about what gay people should like. It makes me uncomfortable that such division within gay communities can still thrive, despite all the societal change we’ve been through. I am reminded as a young gay man feeling very uncomfortable in gay pubs, with half naked posters of men on the walls, the sleazy old men at the bar. In my circle of then-friends I was made to feel like an outsider because I wasn’t really into “gay culture” such as it was at the time.

I am seeing this show next month, purely because of its Pulitzer and Tony winning status, not because it’s a “gay” musical or dealing with “issues”, although these things won’t preclude me from enjoying the show. To imply I’m some kind of sex traitor if I don’t enjoy it seems enormously hypocritical to me, in an age where we all strive to be accepted for being ourselves.

[intoanewlife]

Jul 20, 2023 12:34:03 GMT shorn said:

Jul 20, 2023 11:56:00 GMT Being Alive said:

For reference (and in truly not being obtuse) I AM an adult member of the LGBTQ+ community who has dealt/struggled with homophobia, a negative self/body image, or a community that, at large, only takes an interest in you if you are what passes for "hot"...

and this show didn't speak to me at all on any level.

Same on all counts.

I'm not surprised to see some comments here about how gay people should like it. 

Really, where has anyone said that?

I am gay and don't love every single piece of 'gay' entertainment I see, nor do I expect it to speak to or represent me.

I'm white and 53, this didn't speak to or represent me in any way and how could it when it is the story of a twenty something African American.

I go to the theatre and watch films etc to see other people's stories and experiences not my own and I found it not only very interesting but also very moving to see a whole lot of issues I'd never even considered or encountered and most likely never will.

The fact that people go to see something 'gay' and then throw a tanty because it didn't represent them frankly takes narcissism to new heights. 

That someone could call this show a 'pity party' says far more about them, than it does about the show.

[intoanewlife]

Jul 20, 2023 13:24:24 GMT toomasj said:

There is suddenly quite a bit of snottiness about what gay people should like. 

Suddenly? 

[shownut]

Jul 20, 2023 13:44:39 GMT intoanewlife said:

Jul 20, 2023 12:34:03 GMT shorn said:

Same on all counts.

I'm not surprised to see some comments here about how gay people should like it. 

Really, where has anyone said that?

I am gay and don't love every single piece of 'gay' entertainment I see, nor do I expect it to speak to or represent me.

I'm white and 53, this didn't speak to or represent me in any way and how could it when it is the story of a twenty something African American.

I go to the theatre and watch films etc to see other people's stories and experiences not my own and I found it not only very interesting but also very moving to see a whole lot of issues I'd never even considered or encountered and most likely never will.

The fact that people go to see something 'gay' and then throw a tanty because it didn't represent them frankly takes narcissism to new heights. 

That someone could call this show a 'pity party' says far more about them, than it does about the show.

I agree.

I generally avoid 'gay' plays, films and even Pride events...because it is generally a reinforcement of stereotypes that I am sick of....twinks  parading half naked and love stories that are banal and generally based on sexual attraction and little else. And most of these properties truly suck in terms their content though I am sure there are exceptions.

But luckily, A STRANGE LOOP has a story that goes beyond boundaries and can relate to anyone open to seeing things through another point of view that might be far from their own (as you did). I was surrounded by folks of all types when I saw it...young, old, white, black, Asian, gay, straight, etc....and they seemed to be thrilled by it. That's a good thing. 

[toomasj]

Well love it, hate it, or something inbetween I will still give my honest opinion and won’t be coloured by peer pressure. That’s the beauty of theatre, it isn’t Twitter, or TokTik, you pay your ticket you get your opinion and the right to share it.

[BurlyBeaR]

Just a small intervention before the discussion progresses any further.

Let’s avoid making judgement calls about other members which are based on their like/dislike of a show please. Or more specifically, judge as much as you like, but don’t write that judgement down here.

We’re here to pass opinions on shows, not each other.

Thanks.

[robertb213]

My initial comments were perhaps overly harsh and freshly fuelled by disliking the material (a lot!) but I didn't mean to rub anyone up the wrong way. I'm glad others enjoyed the show.

[anthony40]

So I saw this on Monday night and upon reflection, alas, this show wasn’t for me.

Did I enjoy it? Yes I did.

Would I go back? As pleased as I am to have seen it, probably not.

I only went because it won the Tony Award for Best Musical and I was curious.

There was a lot to like and it’s clear a lot of thought and effort has gone into creating this show.

I thought the make lead was outstanding- truly. I loved that because of his complexion, when he smiled his whole face lit up.

As dynamic as the five actors playing all the supporting roles were, I also thought the solo female also gave a stand out performance.

The premise of a queer, black man writing a musical about a queer, black man writing a musical about a queer, black man writing a musical is a novel concept.

I wasn’t offended by anything I saw on stage however I couldn’t help but think how we’ve move from ‘jazz hands’ to what I saw on stage- but, then again, it just means there’s a musical out there for everyone.

Was this deserving of Best Musical? That’s arguable and I don’t know the competition all I know is the four days later, although I remember the show, I can’t say that I remember any of the songs.

For me, Crazy For You and Groundhog Day were just more enjoyable. Maybe that more a reflection of me and my personal tastes- a single, white (Mediterranean) guy from the other side of the world.

But the theatre was full and it got a standing ovation on Monday night, so, what do I know?

Guess you’re not gonna please everyone.

[matildaswinton]

I’ve seen this twice now. First time was the matinee where Kyle Birch first went on, as well as Jean-Luke Worrell as thought 5. Honestly had no idea I was watching covers who had done their first full understudy run the night before. It is a spectacular and important show. Went back a week later and got the full regular cast. It is in great hands no matter who is onstage.

I loved the ideas presented. Anyone who wants to avoid another minority pity/attention-grab for money can rest assured this piece is anti-that, but recognizes all the facets of itself, even those that could be in this camp. That’s the nature of the work… we are watching his perceptions of his perceptions of his life , and how they change as he grows and moves through his life.

I can’t get Inner White Girl out of my head. A gorgeous and moving song. Also love We Wanna Know and omg Periodically… Wow. Genius writing. It’s a full monologue in a song. Sure, most of this music is to further the plot, but it’s also gorgeous and entertaining. The pianist… wow.

Every single person in the cast is phenomenal.

I find it incredible also because of how unapologetically black it is. It’s a brilliant, boundary pushing work. I would comment on specifics, and what I took away from it, but don’t want to spoil.

I think internet arguments about this show are fruitless. I’d die to talk about it in person with anyone whose seen it, but for this message board I’ll just say GO GO GO.

For anyone who wants a deeper dive or more info, check out the No Script Podcast episode where they discuss it.

[anthony]

This did not click with me. It was borderline torture and I’d probably say the worst thing I’ve ever seen.

There genuinely wasn’t a single moment I enjoyed or even cracked a smile - don’t understand why so many seemed to find it hilarious.

[annette]

Oh dear, that’s a shame, but theatre is so totally subjective. Horses for courses as they say. I’d probably say it’s one of the best things I’ve ever seen. Did you know what to expect when you booked your seats? There are of course laughs in the show, but I wouldn’t describe it as a comedy - far from it.
What are your favourite type of shows?

[anthony]

Jul 22, 2023 1:24:57 GMT annette said:

Oh dear, that’s a shame, but theatre is so totally subjective. Horses for courses as they say. I’d probably say it’s one of the best things I’ve ever seen. Did you know what to expect when you booked your seats? There are of course laughs in the show, but I wouldn’t describe it as a comedy - far from it.
What are your favourite type of shows?

Admittedly, it was unlikely I was going to love it - my other half was obsessed with the cast album and I knew then it wasn't going to be a favourite of mine or anything. I knew what to expect when I booked it, but like I said, I thought I'd probably enjoy it (An example I would give is Mamma Mia - it's not for me, but I can appreciate that's it is mildly entertaining, for example, and probably wouldn't pass up some cheap tickets!) but I really didn't expect to hate it as much as I did. Torture is genuinely the best way I could describe it. 

In terms of my favourite type of shows, I'd say I have a pretty eclectic taste. I do generally prefer darker and more serious shows (I'd probably say my top 3 shows consist of Phantom, the Austrian musical Elisabeth and Rebecca), but equally, Legally Blonde is pretty wonderful!

[matildaswinton]

Just a thought on the laughter that some don’t understand… there are laughs at something comedic, and there are laughs at the recognition of truth. I think a lot of the laughter in this might come from the latter… but it’s possible you don’t know that truth. Doesn’t mean you can’t learn something from the work. Some comments on here are a bit antagonistic.

Also… two of the shows listed in the comment above are pop culture phenomenons… dark?? I know the subject matter, but they don’t (to me) betray the taste of someone who likes “darker” material.

[toomasj]

Excellent post anthony

[theatre2023]

How long is SL booking until ?

[Matt]

Any ticket offers apart from today tix rush and NT Rush? I waited 45 mins on Friday for NT rush and there were no £10 tickets on any of the days I could go.

[intoanewlife]

Jul 23, 2023 6:01:09 GMT matildaswinton said:

Just a thought on the laughter that some don’t understand… there are laughs at something comedic, and there are laughs at the recognition of truth. I think a lot of the laughter in this might come from the latter… but it’s possible you don’t know that truth. Doesn’t mean you can’t learn something from the work. Some comments on here are a bit antagonistic.

Also… two of the shows listed in the comment above are pop culture phenomenons… dark?? I know the subject matter, but they don’t (to me) betray the taste of someone who likes “darker” material.

I'd agree with this, but I can also see why people just do not like it. Honestly, if I was in a different mood when I saw it, I could easily have had the total opposite reaction and hated it with a passion.

I've had that experience with a number of shows (Fun Home for example) where they just rubbed me the wrong way very early on and I couldn't enjoy them. There is NOTHING worse than sitting in a theatre with an enthusiastic crowd when you are absolutely hating something, it just makes you hate it even more.

Comedy is also highly subjective and while I thought it was hilarious, we don't all find the same things funny. Some forms of comedy you either get or you don't get, it's as simple as that. I love Monty Python, but some of it I just do not 'get' at all. I've never once even managed as much as a smirk for Eddie Izzard, Victoria Wood or anything to do with Steve Coogan, but I realise that is a 'me' problem and has nothing to do with them not being funny. Most people however if they don't like something just label it as crap, when in fact it is nothing of the sort. 'They' just didn't like/get it. 

I too also loved the fact it relishes in its 'blackness' and doesn't make a single apology for it. Nor does it make many concessions for those 'outside the circle' which I also think adds to the frustration for some. Personally I think that's what great artists do and while it is openly accepted in film and television and those audiences are used to seeking out answers online or elsewhere after they've seen something, the theatre gang seem much less accepting of it happening within their own extremely rigid guidelines of what is and isn't acceptable in the theatre and label it as 'self-indulgent'. All real artists are self-indulgent, that's what makes them great artists. Well, except for Wes Anderson of course, who is just sh*t! *wink

For me personally I don't think it is a great 'musical' as such, but as a whole it was a wonderful theatrical experience. I find the music merely 'serviceable' at best and the songs themselves are only saved by their clever lyrics. I also think it feels 'workshopped' to death for the last half an hour or so to turn it into a more audience friendly experience, which in some ways lessened its 'bite' for me. I'd have loved it to have ended with the gospel number, as once the last final parent 'loop' is revealed it was all over for me. Then it limps along to its inevitable cliché ridden ending for 2 more very generic musical theatre songs. I'd have much rather left the theatre 15 minutes earlier on the high of watching the egg drip down the faces of the idiots who started clapping along to something that was clearing taking the piss out of utter morons like themselves.

I also think the tagline is highly inaccurate to what the show is actually about, which only adds to the confusion for those coming in expecting it to be a certain way. It may be a snappy and meta concept, but that really isn't what is happening here. It is actually exactly the same story as Preludes (which literally has a song in it about being stuck in a brain loop) with the Russian composer being swapped out for a young gay African American. Both shows are about composers with crippling self doubt and low self esteem who are struggling to find their way because they have never come to terms with the events in the lives which have made them who they are. While Rachmaninoff struggles with the effects of fame and living up to immense public scrutiny of his work, Usher struggles with his sexuality and being invisible to a community that he suffers great personal sacrifice to be a part of. It's not until both find the reason for being stuck in this headspace, that they can finally identify and acknowledge the reasons for it and move on and heal.

That concept alone also rubs a lot of people the wrong way, especially in this country where you must 'keep that stiff upper lip' and 'suck it up buttercup'...just ask Meghan and Harry...

In the end I just found it a great testament to how we as humans can survive and function in this world with so much sh*t being thrown at us on a minutely basis and how that gels (or doesn't gel) with what is already swimming around in our brains.

[annette]

Interesting post intoanewlife - you make some excellent points, but with respect I couldn’t disagree more with your opinion about the music in general and particularly the final two songs being cliche ridden, generic MT songs. Just out of interest which other MT songs would you compare to them as an illustration of this point?

I find The Memory Song extremely moving and the choreography that goes with it is sublime. The final piece of dialogue and song (A Strange Loop) are for me the absolute embodiment of the loop being complete.

Had it ended on the Gospel Song, I think the deeply personal nature of Usher’s story would have been somewhat lost in my humble opinion. That is the part of the show where all four times I’ve seen it, I feel my heart fully opening up for him and have to fight back tears (although the Periodically number with his mother comes comes to that too).

I do agree with you about the mindless clapping though. I’ve seen the show both in NY and here and exactly the same thing happened. Are people just not really paying attention to the lyrics of that song do you think? It’s one of the strangest audience reactions I’ve ever seen (albeit from a small section of the audience).

[intoanewlife]

Jul 23, 2023 15:59:03 GMT annette said:

Interesting post intoanewlife - you make some excellent points, but with respect I couldn’t disagree more with your opinion about the music in general and particularly the final two songs being cliche ridden, generic MT songs. Just out of interest which other MT songs would you compare to them as an illustration of this point?

I find The Memory Song extremely moving and the choreography that goes with it is sublime. The final piece of dialogue and song (A Strange Loop) are for me the absolute embodiment of the loop being complete.

Had it ended on the Gospel Song, I think the deeply personal nature of Usher’s story would have been somewhat lost in my humble opinion. That is the part of the show where all four times I’ve seen it, I feel my heart fully opening up for him and have to fight back tears (although the Periodically number with his mother comes comes to that too).

I do agree with you about the mindless clapping though. I’ve seen the show both in NY and here and exactly the same thing happened. Are people just not really paying attention to the lyrics of that song do you think? It’s one of the strangest audience reactions I’ve ever seen (albeit from a small section of the audience).

I was probably a bit unfair re the last 2 songs...I have only seen it once and have not listened to it since I saw it so I don't know them that well. The show just felt over for me once the main source of his problems was revealed (in another 2 songs that could've been cut shorter already) and I didn't need those 2 songs to tell me what was coming once he had made that realisation. I literally sat there thinking, ok how long are they going to drag this out telling us what we already know is coming.

Sure it gives the audience the happy ending they crave and a sense that everything is going to be ok, but it is going to take him a long time to get there and I think that leg of his journey was best left privately to him and to our imaginations.

I actually have this problem with a lot of musicals, especially those that stick to fairly traditional musical theatre troupes. Not EVERYTHING has to be 2 and a half / 3 hours long or over explained or dragged out to an ending we can see coming an hour earlier, some things can be left to the imagination. Tammy Faye suffered from it pretty badly in Act 2 and Hamilton does it towards the end as well. It's all exciting and new up until the last 30 minutes, when it then waffles on endlessly before ending with some dribble about his legacy. Mean Girls is probably the worst offender, where all the main 'punchlines' in the movie all have a 3 minute song in the musical version. One, we lose the joke as it has now become a song and two, now it takes 2 and half hours to tell the same story the movie told us in 90 minutes, only it's not half as good.

Maybe it's because I'm an editor and spend my entire working life cutting things out of stuff lol

I found the 'clapping' very much like the 'come on stage' ending of FairPlay and Six after Howard's song. I think people just don't know how to handle the discomfort of what they're watching and the people clapping just didn't get the show or what was going on in the scene and were just mindlessly doing what the performers were telling them too. It's kinda cruel really, but also rather funny lol

[annette]

Jul 23, 2023 16:31:00 GMT intoanewlife said:

Jul 23, 2023 15:59:03 GMT annette said:

Interesting post intoanewlife - you make some excellent points, but with respect I couldn’t disagree more with your opinion about the music in general and particularly the final two songs being cliche ridden, generic MT songs. Just out of interest which other MT songs would you compare to them as an illustration of this point?

I find The Memory Song extremely moving and the choreography that goes with it is sublime. The final piece of dialogue and song (A Strange Loop) are for me the absolute embodiment of the loop being complete.

Had it ended on the Gospel Song, I think the deeply personal nature of Usher’s story would have been somewhat lost in my humble opinion. That is the part of the show where all four times I’ve seen it, I feel my heart fully opening up for him and have to fight back tears (although the Periodically number with his mother comes comes to that too).

I do agree with you about the mindless clapping though. I’ve seen the show both in NY and here and exactly the same thing happened. Are people just not really paying attention to the lyrics of that song do you think? It’s one of the strangest audience reactions I’ve ever seen (albeit from a small section of the audience).

I was probably a bit unfair re the last 2 songs...I have only seen it once and have not listened to it since I saw it so I don't know them that well. The show just felt over for me once the main source of his problems was revealed (in another 2 songs that could've been cut shorter already) and I didn't need those 2 songs to tell me what was coming once he had made that realisation. I literally sat there thinking, ok how long are they going to drag this out telling us what we already know is coming.

Sure it gives the audience the happy ending they crave and a sense that everything is going to be ok, but it is going to take him a long time to get there and I think that leg of his journey was best left privately to him and to our imaginations.

I actually have this problem with a lot of musicals, especially those that stick to fairly traditional musical theatre troupes. Not EVERYTHING has to be 2 and a half / 3 hours long or over explained or dragged out to an ending we can see coming an hour earlier, some things can be left to the imagination. Tammy Faye suffered from it pretty badly in Act 2 and Hamilton does it towards the end as well. It's all exciting and new up until the last 30 minutes, when it then waffles on endlessly before ending with some dribble about his legacy. Mean Girls is probably the worst offender, where all the main 'punchlines' in the movie all have a 3 minute song in the musical version. One, we lose the joke as it has now become a song and two, now it takes 2 and half hours to tell the same story the movie told us in 90 minutes, only it's not half as good.

Maybe it's because I'm an editor and spend my entire working life cutting things out of stuff lol

I found the 'clapping' very much like the 'come on stage' ending of FairPlay and Six after Howard's song. I think people just don't know how to handle the discomfort of what they're watching and the people clapping just didn't get the show or what was going on in the scene and were just mindlessly doing what the performers were telling them too. It's kinda cruel really, but also rather funny lol

Ah now you see my take on the end of the show was that it was neither a happy or sad ending. To me it was an open ending which I really liked. I guess if you look at it in a very ‘Meta’ (sorry, I dislike that word but can’t think of another right now), we know it is a happy ending because we’ve just watched Usher’s show being staged. This felt a bit more plausible on Broadway due to the lyrics in the opening song.

You could also look at it as being a case of nothing actually having changed in Usher’s life except for him exploring his thoughts in detail. I guess the only person who could confirm or deny this would be Michael R Jackson.

I totally agree with you about Hamilton which was game over for me by the end of Act 1. I thought Eliza’s last speech, the song and the reaching out to the audience was toe curling.

I liked Tammy Faye in principle (I even named my new kitten after her) but I thought Act 2 seemed like it needed a lot more work before it was ready to be on stage and the shambolic bows didn’t help.

I think you’re right about the jaunty clapping in ASL. The way it petered out when some people realised what they were clapping along to did make me laugh too (cruel, but fair). I wonder if the clapping came as a surprise to the cast the first time it happened?

[toomasj]

What are they clapping along with? Could someone enlighten me please?