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Post by samuelwhiskers on Nov 1, 2017 11:25:08 GMT
Admittedly I'm hugely biased (we have, as the kids say, "beef") but I really don't think Lyndsey Turner is a great director. She has good ideas but the execution is often flawed.
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3,040 posts
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Post by crowblack on Nov 1, 2017 12:44:21 GMT
Matt Trueman did a piece in Whats On Stage on this yesterday : "Has British theatre become too dependent on playwriting competitions?" - saying he's seen some very promising scripts reading the competitions, whilst big theatres no longer have scriptreaders and rely instead on recommissioning established names.
Two of the best plays I've seen in the last couple of years were both Bruntwood prize winners, Wish List and How my Light is Spent. I thought the writing and construction there were far stronger than in the new plays by established writers that I've seen this year, where excellent performances and fine sets c/o the big names and budgets star writers attract have papered over the cracks in the play itself.
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3,558 posts
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Post by showgirl on Nov 2, 2017 4:46:42 GMT
Gosh, I wasn't suggesting an audience panel of people who would read the play, that would be too mad for words, I just think there must be a stage where the play is in development/early rehearsal when someone from outside the NT bubble could shout "stop! This isn't working", An audience panel was actually my suggestion, chrissie , and that's all it was, for others to comment upon. So thank you SO much for your reasonable and polite response. In common (!) with others here, I don't have the answer and it was just a thought, but as a regular at the NT and other theatres which sometimes seem to be losing their way with programming, I'd obviously like to see them improve and would be willing to participate if any did wish to go down the "sound out potential patrons first" route - or anything similar. I also genuinely believe that leaving things until the early rehearsal stage might be too late - though as n1david notes, Nicholas Hytner was apparently able to fix War Horse (which I haven't seen and wouldn't wish to) at that stage.
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Post by Jan on Nov 2, 2017 7:39:50 GMT
However, in the same book it is evident that John Heffernan is a huge fan of theatre who, surely, should have been able to tell that this was a huge turkey throughout the rehearsals and, as lead, tried to tackle it?
I thought exactly the same during the long hours watching Bertie Carvel in the NT "Damned by Despair", simply inexplicable why he agreed to be in it. The director of this play seems immune to a lot of the criticism flying around about it which is odd, for a new play the director needs to engage with the writer if it needs improving, the AD is a last resort.
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Post by Polly1 on Nov 2, 2017 10:01:21 GMT
Well, I'm firmly in the 'bonkers but fun' camp! OK, it's sometimes a bit panto/Spamalot and the cast know they're not in something very profound, but there were some interesting points to think about, the Heff is fab in his wig and the sets/effects were entertaining*. Above all it was a relief not to have to sit through yet another middle-class angst-fest or women screaming 'I WANT A BABY. *Several set/prop malfunctions on Tues matinee, which judging by cast reaction, seem to be regular occurrences! An open door on the revolve knocked one person off their chair and the door jamb in the final interior scene came away in Heffernan's hand! PS. I especially loved the creation of the cross of St. George
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Post by dani on Nov 2, 2017 10:06:08 GMT
Admittedly I'm hugely biased (we have, as the kids say, "beef") but I really don't think Lyndsey Turner is a great director. She has good ideas but the execution is often flawed. A few years ago I thought she was very good, but recently she's been poor. Her Light Shining in Buckinghamshire was a low water mark for me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 10:50:12 GMT
Or "Shight Lining in Buckinghamshire", as it was 'fondly' known around the building. (Say it out loud if you're not sure.)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 11:30:51 GMT
It's disappointing that Travelex pricing has been proven not to automatically draw large audiences. Personally, I mildly enjoyed St George and the Dragon. And it made perfect sense, after the Brexit referendum result, for the NT urgently to plan a popular pageant on English nationalist themes for its most public stage. A big part of the NT's problem seems to be an inability to attract the appropriate audiences to each of its productions. They're all seen by too many of the regulars, who aren't always the main target, and too few of the intended audience sectors. My view is that the several perceived misfires at the NT are due to the enormous increase in the frequency of productions of new work, compared to the old NT producing many more shows using existing playtexts. They are insufficiently resourced to R&D and produce so much new work and to present it to the various appropriate audiences.
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Post by chrissie on Nov 2, 2017 21:39:52 GMT
It's disappointing that Travelex pricing has been proven not to automatically draw large audiences. Personally, I mildly enjoyed St George and the Dragon. And it made perfect sense, after the Brexit referendum result, for the NT urgently to plan a popular pageant on English nationalist themes for its most public stage. A big part of the NT's problem seems to be an inability to attract the appropriate audiences to each of its productions. They're all seen by too many of the regulars, who aren't always the main target, and too few of the intended audience sectors. My view is that the several perceived misfires at the NT are due to the enormous increase in the frequency of productions of new work, compared to the old NT producing many more shows using existing playtexts. They are insufficiently resourced to R&D and produce so much new work and to present it to the various appropriate audiences.
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Post by dapple on Nov 9, 2017 10:56:15 GMT
Sadly, I have to agree with the other comments that have panned the play. I saw it in the preview week and we immediately said this would be an expensive flop. Far, far too long, an aimless second half and a fair bit of effort from the cast to little obvious effect. We couldn't understand why it was allowed to be put on in this form. It probably merits a 90 minute showing, with no interval, in a fringe theatre.
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Post by lynette on Nov 9, 2017 16:56:45 GMT
Well, this 'regular' gave this a miss. I think the problem, HG is that the regulars are too savvy to waste time and money on obvious duds especially the 'relevant' ones and the new audiences are too savvy to do the same.
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Post by youngoffender on Nov 20, 2017 15:47:16 GMT
If I were Travelex, I would be taking a very close interest in future programming. This year their sponsorship has given them a very poor return on their investment. Instead of large new audiences enjoying great shows at a price that makes them think well of the company that subsidised them, the few people who have turned up seem to have had a pretty dismal experience, and any lustre that the Travelex association had in the Hytner years is being badly tarnished.
The fact remains that Travelex tickets are only good value if the productions are worth seeing. This season I would quite happily have paid £15 NOT to sit through these shows.
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Post by Jan on Nov 20, 2017 16:18:03 GMT
If I were Travelex, I would be taking a very close interest in future programming. This year their sponsorship has given them a very poor return on their investment. Instead of large new audiences enjoying great shows at a price that makes them think well of the company that subsidised them, the few people who have turned up seem to have had a pretty dismal experience, and any lustre that the Travelex association had in the Hytner years is being badly tarnished. The fact remains that Travelex tickets are only good value if the productions are worth seeing. This season I would quite happily have paid £15 NOT to sit through these shows. Agree. Though in the next booking period Macbeth is a Travelex (and is also a GCSE set book) which redresses the balance.
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1,936 posts
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Post by wickedgrin on Nov 20, 2017 17:43:21 GMT
It is a regular occurrence in my experience to see a talented cast struggling with the material.
It IS clear in rehearsals if the play/show will work or not, the issue is at that stage the production is already scheduled into the theatre and tickets sold. So cancellation is not an option. The running time can be trimmed and lots of alterations to the material made but ultimately, I suppose, you run out of time and are into the theatre for technical rehearsals.
The plays have to be selected from the scripts - and clearly some should never be considered for production.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 7:40:43 GMT
I wonder if the playwright simply overextended himsel - I hear that he has several commissions. With so much work on it is impossible to maintain a standard of excellence. However,if I was in his position I would have pulled out all the stops to ensure that my play was as good as I could make it. Mullarkey seems to have sat back on his heels a bit.
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Post by chameleon on Nov 23, 2017 11:00:34 GMT
Unsuccessful productions like this must be bad, not only for the audience and theatre but also for the playwright's development - how do they move on and which directors and venues will want to take a chance on their next work - assuming they continue writing? Trying in vain to think of examples. I know Richard Bean had a blip at the NT but not as bad and he was more established at the time. 'Three', which was way worse than this, didn't seem to do Mike Bartlett any harm..
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Post by n1david on Nov 23, 2017 11:52:54 GMT
'Three', which was way worse than this, didn't seem to do Mike Bartlett any harm.. What/where was 'Three'? Can't seem to find any reference to it. If you mean 13, Billington gave it four stars and Charles Spencer three (according to Wikipedia), which is a somewhat better critical reception than St George.
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Post by peelee on Nov 23, 2017 12:13:43 GMT
Travelex must have gained quite a lot out of its long term sponsorship at the National Theatre, whether productions were great hits at the time or didn't make much of a splash. For many people and far more than have used Travelex services, that name is synonymous with 'good deal' or 'fair deal' simply on the strength of the cheaper tickets theatregoers have been able to buy over the years. Also, one of the National's theatres has been named after Travelex founder Lloyd Dorfman in the recent past, so it seems reasonable to assume everyone concerned is happy.
As for writers recovering from productions that didn't succeed, Harold Pinter famously achieved that despite an early play and how it was received at, I think, the Lyric Hammersmith. Before that in the mid-1940s, Arthur Miller got over his play The Man Who Had All the Luck closing after four performances in New York, and made something of himself. There must be many others who've taken such setbacks as temporary and have ploughed on. For others, perhaps less resilient or prepared to face up to the realisation that they're not quite up to it, a setback did them a favour.
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Post by chameleon on Nov 23, 2017 13:45:20 GMT
'Three', which was way worse than this, didn't seem to do Mike Bartlett any harm.. What/where was 'Three'? Can't seem to find any reference to it. If you mean 13, Billington gave it four stars and Charles Spencer three (according to Wikipedia), which is a somewhat better critical reception than St George. Ah, yes, '13'. Sorry. Better critical reception, but MB will give anything that looks like it's a serious play about politics four stars, no matter the quality.
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