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Post by BVM on Aug 28, 2024 11:28:16 GMT
Related to my post on the Starlight thread re my eager waiting for an OLC.
So am in various online Starlight groups and although am not (quite) fangirl territory it's the one fandom in which I have a reasonable input. And whenever I moan about the wait for the OLC and the will it happen woes, very well meaning and kind people basically say, don't worry, here's an audio boot for you. (Which I politely decline though some are sent anyway!)
What has surprised me even more though, is that quite a few people I have spoken to seem to think an audio boot is a "good enough" substitute for a cast recording, more or less negating the need for one. Maybe I am an audio nerd, but I truly could not disagree more. Even the best recordings I have ever heard made on people's phones or whatevs are literally nowhere near the pleasurable experience of a properly mixed and produced album. Like, would give me maybe 5% of the pleasure? If that.
My question is - am I an outlier? Do most people thing these recordings are good enough?
And does the fact that so many people seem of make audio recordings reduce the desire and market for cast recordings, resulting in turn to fewer producers releasing them?
As I have mentioned on numerous threads we are in complete contrast to Broadway where almost everything, flops included, get cast recordings. I so wish we could do better here. (Pretty much the only thing I think Broadway do better than us!)
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Post by 141920grm on Aug 28, 2024 12:18:25 GMT
Do most people thing these recordings are good enough? No, because with worsening audience behaviour it's getting more and more difficult to get a perfect bootleg recording that rivals an officially produced one 😂 Jokes aside, OCRs and bootlegs cater to different audiences and what they want out of each, so from my audience POV they're nowhere in conflict, I'd gladly take both. I'm sure you know re Starlight specifically, the existing cast recordings are so drastically different from what we have now in Wembley, audio bootlegs are the only way people can revisit favourite moments from this production until we get an official recording! |
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Post by BVM on Aug 28, 2024 12:23:47 GMT
Do most people thing these recordings are good enough? No, because with worsening audience behaviour it's getting more and more difficult to get a perfect bootleg recording that rivals an officially produced one 😂 Jokes aside, OCRs and bootlegs cater to different audiences and what they want out of each, so from my audience POV they're nowhere in conflict, I'd gladly take both. I'm sure you know re Starlight specifically, the existing cast recordings are so drastically different from what we have now in Wembley, audio bootlegs are the only way people can revisit favourite moments from this production until we get an official recording! I agree - and not just audience behaviour but the insane amount of coughing!!! I hope you are right and they are for different audiences - it's deffo what I'd like to believe. But it is frustrating how so many OLCs are SO slow in coming. (And don't even get me started on UK fans having to wait for a Sunset release date that coincides with Broadway - I really must not moan on that one though, I am so happy it's happening at all) Yup, all the Starlight recordings are so different to what's on stage in Wembley (kinda baffles me they are selling the 1984 re-release zoetrope vinyl thing in the theatre!) |
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Post by ceebee on Aug 28, 2024 12:56:36 GMT
I agree BVM - I'm not sure bootlegs are killing OLCs but the joy of a scratchy phone recording is minimal (I've done a couple myself!). I tend to do it to bank a memory especially if I know a show won't get a proper recording (e.g. Local Hero, A Christmas Carol). I still treasure my recording of the Old Vic "In Camera" lockdown Christmas Carol, but have probably spent over £3k on tickets for subsequent performances of the same show since then. I do think in this day and age that shows should automatically factor in a recorded version (audio or video) and release it once the show has run its course or proved itself sustainable as a long-runner. |
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Post by flouise on Aug 28, 2024 13:12:40 GMT
I think that people make do with bootlegs, knowing that the chances of shows getting cast recordings in the West End is generally fairly low, especially if one exists from another production. I don't think that anyone would consider that they would replace a professional recording!
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Post by blamerobots on Aug 28, 2024 13:12:58 GMT
In response to the thread topic, no, bootlegs have existed for years and they haven't killed OLCs. Bootlegs are too outside the mainstream. It's mostly just cultures, I suppose, for producing cast recordings comparing WE to BWAY. America is a big place and the cast album was a means of advertising for shows everywhere, being able to be distributed across the country. London's a more commutable place. Remember though that cast recordings ARE a commercial venture, an archival second. And they usually come straight out a show's budget, so whether a cast recording is made or not is usually preplanned. On the West End where shows are made with smaller budgets and smaller houses, there's less money being put towards a cast recording rather than just running the show. The recent Hadestown announcement is definitely a rare outlier.
I suppose a good example is Mamma Mia, which had an OLC but more as a means of advertisment to attract people to the show who may be skeptics.
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Post by BVM on Aug 28, 2024 13:50:01 GMT
In response to the thread topic, no, bootlegs have existed for years and they haven't killed OLCs. Bootlegs are too outside the mainstream. It's mostly just cultures, I suppose, for producing cast recordings comparing WE to BWAY. America is a big place and the cast album was a means of advertising for shows everywhere, being able to be distributed across the country. London's a more commutable place. Remember though that cast recordings ARE a commercial venture, an archival second. And they usually come straight out a show's budget, so whether a cast recording is made or not is usually preplanned. On the West End where shows are made with smaller budgets and smaller houses, there's less money being put towards a cast recording rather than just running the show. The recent Hadestown announcement is definitely a rare outlier.
I suppose a good example is Mamma Mia, which had an OLC but more as a means of advertisment to attract people to the show who may be skeptics.
Yeah, totally I get that. Am often the first to remind people that it's showBUSINESS and things that don't make money aren't viable! I know OLCs generally don't make money and that's why shows don't do them! I guess it's just the one example where I wish producers would be happy to do something as a loss leader. Otherwise shows that happen just disappear into the ether once they are done. And that moment of time only lives on in people's (generally fallible) memory. It's one part of the business I am sentimental about! Cameron seems to get this and records almost all his revivals (Oliver, Mary Poppins, Miss Saigon, Les Mis 25th, Les Mis concerts). RUG sadly, not so much! |
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Post by BVM on Aug 28, 2024 13:51:23 GMT
I agree BVM - I'm not sure bootlegs are killing OLCs but the joy of a scratchy phone recording is minimal (I've done a couple myself!). I tend to do it to bank a memory especially if I know a show won't get a proper recording (e.g. Local Hero, A Christmas Carol). I still treasure my recording of the Old Vic "In Camera" lockdown Christmas Carol, but have probably spent over £3k on tickets for subsequent performances of the same show since then. I do think in this day and age that shows should automatically factor in a recorded version (audio or video) and release it once the show has run its course or proved itself sustainable as a long-runner. Totally agree! Whether it makes money or not, I always think preserving something is worth doing for the greater good. Obviously not all producers can do this. But the ones that can afford a potentially loss leading recording, IMHO should. |
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Post by sph on Aug 28, 2024 14:45:36 GMT
I understand the cost of a studio recording and physical CD release being an impossibility for many shows, but nowadays it should be easy enough to record a show live on stage and then make it available to stream. It's a shame to see less successful or smaller productions just disappear.
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Post by blamerobots on Aug 28, 2024 14:50:29 GMT
nowadays it should be easy enough to record a show live on stage and then make it available to stream. Part of the cost is negotiating with actor's agents for use of their voice on recording, negotiating pay for the musicians, production, creative team, and studio crew (who still have to mix and master the album from the initial soundboard recording stems, regardless.)
Not to mention having to talk to record labels about distribution (where the actual profit is being made from.) A live recording is still expensive to hash out. |
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Post by BVM on Aug 28, 2024 15:08:02 GMT
I understand the cost of a studio recording and physical CD release being an impossibility for many shows, but nowadays it should be easy enough to record a show live on stage and then make it available to stream. It's a shame to see less successful or smaller productions just disappear. Certainly this is what Cameron now does! And their quality is very good now. Sunset also went down this route. So I think nowadays it's a good way of doing it. But I think there are a lot of fixed costs as blamerobots states that still make it an expensive and complicated pursuit. I guess with all the artists and musicians, musicals are always gonna be more complex to release that individual artist albums. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 29, 2024 19:07:01 GMT
I don’t think bootlegs have killed cast recordings, if you want to listen to a crappy illegal recording go ahead. I wold have said that platforms such as Spotify/Amazon/Apple have, as there is no money to be made.
However professional recordings need to be done for publicity for websites and radio shows, but this can be just 2 or 3 songs.
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Post by anthony on Aug 29, 2024 19:36:24 GMT
To be honest, I honestly don't see why people get so upset about bootlegs. If anything, I'd argue that they're beneficial for the industry. As someone who collects bootlegs, they've done nothing but engage me in theatre more (and makes me see more live theatre than before!). Those who record performances - particularly videos - trade via PayPal. The industry knows their full names, addresses, etc and does nothing about it - they could literally shut down the entire community with some ease overnight. And yet they don't - they don't even stop these people buying tickets. So I imagine the industry has also decided that bootlegs do more good than harm. A lot of audio bootlegs also come directly from soundboards, meaning that those who work at the theatre also engage in this.
I don't understand why people get on their high horse about it all. If you don't want to listen/watch bootlegs, then don't...
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Post by SuttonPeron on Aug 29, 2024 19:57:20 GMT
Everyone is anti-bootleg until they watch a "Defying Gravity" compilation video. That´s all I will say on this matter.
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Post by Being Alive on Aug 29, 2024 20:11:58 GMT
I've got some bootlegs that are as good as any of these live cast recordings tbh - long may we keep recording them.
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