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Post by cavocado on Nov 21, 2022 9:51:00 GMT
A new play by Frank McGuinness, set in a very odd restaurant where Groucho Marx (Greg Hicks) and TS Eliot (Ian Bartholomew) are having a meal and meeting for the first time after years of writing to each other and admiring each other's work, but two very different characters who provide good foils for one another.
The theatre website says it's 'on the edge of heaven'. I'm not sure if we're meant to take that literally and see this as some kind of heavenly waiting room, but there is a sense of weighing up their lives, talking of their regrets. The waitress/owner of the restaurant is a strange figure, and there is no food in sight. So there are different levels at which you could take this: two brilliant and entertaining men having dinner together, served by a forgetful and eccentric proprietor, or two complicated lives being weighed up by a supernatural power.
Ingrid Craigie is wonderful as the restaurant proprietor, and the two men were well played, though Batholomew's comic timing could be a bit sharper.
I only have vague memories of watching a few Marx Brothers films on TV as a child, and I studied The Wasteland for A level English many years ago. I recognised some of the quotes/references, a lot probably went over my head, but I don't think it mattered too much, it was still a funny and entertaining 70 minutes' musing on life, art, family, global politics, with some good comedy (including a long and very funny routine about King Lear and his extended family), and even a bit of song and dance.
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Post by cavocado on Nov 21, 2022 15:11:08 GMT
Just noticed I got the men the wrong way round. Greg Hicks plays TS Eliot and Ian Bartholomew plays Groucho Marx.
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Post by joem on Nov 21, 2022 22:02:59 GMT
Press night. Full theatre. That's the good news.
"Dinner With Groucho" had me salivating at the prospect. My favourite comedian and poet shooting the breeze? Would it be lyrical or laugh-out-loud? April is the cruellest month breeding lilacs out of Lydia the tattooed lady?
Frank McGuiness' play is set in a restaurant on the edge of the universe where a Madame Sosostris type figure conjures up our two heroes for a dinner a deux to bring their mutual admiration society, they were indeed regular correspondents, into the "real" world. Initially, it sort of works. Jokes, comic routines and poetry blend together nicely and seem to be setting the play up for some major metaphysics. But then somehow the identity of the two characters drifts somewhat and the musing becomes woolier and less focussed.
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Post by jr on Nov 22, 2022 12:00:58 GMT
Press night. Full theatre. That's the good news. "Dinner With Groucho" had me salivating at the prospect. My favourite comedian and poet shooting the breeze? Would it be lyrical or laugh-out-loud? April is the cruellest month breeding lilacs out of Lydia the tattooed lady? Frank McGuiness' play is set in a restaurant on the edge of the universe where a Madame Sosostris type figure conjures up our two heroes for a dinner a deux to bring their mutual admiration society, they were indeed regular correspondents, into the "real" world. Initially, it sort of works. Jokes, comic routines and poetry blend together nicely and seem to be setting the play up for some major metaphysics. But then somehow the identity of the two characters drifts somewhat and the musing becomes woolier and less focussed. Is it 70 minutes as advertised, or longer? I got a ticket for tonight but not sure I'd really want to go... Guardian's review today is 2* |
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Post by joem on Nov 22, 2022 13:44:58 GMT
It was 70 minutes as advertised. It started a bit late yesterday but I imagine that was because it was press night.
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Post by cavocado on Nov 22, 2022 14:40:39 GMT
70 mins almost exactly on Saturday.
I liked it but the Standard review made me laugh:
"I detest clever-dick plays that make the audience struggle hard to find meaning but allows them the warm glow of self-congratulation for getting an obscure reference. I studied Eliot in A-level English and devoured the Marx Brothers films at what was then the National Film Theatre in the 1980s. Is The Waste Land on the curriculum now, in its centenary year? And who under 50 knows about Groucho and his siblings and will therefore get McGuinness’s oblique references to old routines and one-liners? Writers can write what they want, of course, but it’s odd to pitch a play exclusively to an ageing demographic."
I think I must be the audience for this play! I'm over 50 and love something entertaining that has me puzzling over references and layers of meaning for the next week. And what's wrong with pitching a play at an 'ageing demographic'?
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Post by Jan on Nov 22, 2022 15:36:15 GMT
Writers can write what they want, of course, but it’s odd to pitch a play exclusively to an ageing demographic."I think I must be the audience for this play! I'm over 50 and love something entertaining that has me puzzling over references and layers of meaning for the next week. And what's wrong with pitching a play at an 'ageing demographic'? The bit that's wrong is thinking that a playwright starts by deciding what demographic they want to pitch their next play at. Of course what is really going on here is that Nick Curtis is pitching his review at what he imagines to be the ES demographic in order to ingratiate himself with them - a jobbing freelance keen to hold onto his job at a failing freesheet. |
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Post by joem on Nov 22, 2022 16:27:48 GMT
70 mins almost exactly on Saturday. I liked it but the Standard review made me laugh:
"I detest clever-dick plays that make the audience struggle hard to find meaning but allows them the warm glow of self-congratulation for getting an obscure reference. I studied Eliot in A-level English and devoured the Marx Brothers films at what was then the National Film Theatre in the 1980s. Is The Waste Land on the curriculum now, in its centenary year? And who under 50 knows about Groucho and his siblings and will therefore get McGuinness’s oblique references to old routines and one-liners? Writers can write what they want, of course, but it’s odd to pitch a play exclusively to an ageing demographic."I think I must be the audience for this play! I'm over 50 and love something entertaining that has me puzzling over references and layers of meaning for the next week. And what's wrong with pitching a play at an 'ageing demographic'? I didn't think the play was great but there is far too much inverted snobbery these days. I was fond of the Marx Brothers from about the age of 4 or 5 (no I'm not a contemporary of theirs) and Eliot from my days at comprehensive school. Things are good or bad regardless of who/when/what wrote/sang/painted it. Perhaps the Standard reviewer might be happy reporting on bling or WAGS or death metal industrial jungle garage trip-hop? But ignorance is never pretty when it's flaunted. |
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Post by harrietcraig on Nov 22, 2022 16:41:19 GMT
But ignorance is never pretty when it's flaunted. joem, you beat me to the punch. I was just about to post a comment (and apparently I will now do so) saying I lost any respect I might have had for the reviewer when he flaunted his ignorance by saying, “And I’d never heard of [Marianne] Moore before.” Not having heard of Marianne Moore is nothing to be ashamed of — she isn’t exactly a household name. But using your ignorance as a reason to find fault with the play is inexcusable. A better response (in my opinion) would be to say, “I love plays that open new worlds for me, and this play did so by introducing me to a poet I hadn’t heard of before.” |
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Post by anxiousoctopus on Nov 22, 2022 19:44:51 GMT
70 mins almost exactly on Saturday. I liked it but the Standard review made me laugh:
"I detest clever-dick plays that make the audience struggle hard to find meaning but allows them the warm glow of self-congratulation for getting an obscure reference. I studied Eliot in A-level English and devoured the Marx Brothers films at what was then the National Film Theatre in the 1980s. Is The Waste Land on the curriculum now, in its centenary year? And who under 50 knows about Groucho and his siblings and will therefore get McGuinness’s oblique references to old routines and one-liners? Writers can write what they want, of course, but it’s odd to pitch a play exclusively to an ageing demographic."I think I must be the audience for this play! I'm over 50 and love something entertaining that has me puzzling over references and layers of meaning for the next week. And what's wrong with pitching a play at an 'ageing demographic'? As a younger person who is a fan of older media I also find this opinion baffling. It isn’t a bad thing to pitch a play to older people, and also it’s plays/shows/references to older media that can get younger people interested in them! In fact, discouraging people from making shows about older media stars like the Marx Brothers is a good way of ensuring that only those over 50 will have heard of them! |
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Post by dlevi on Nov 24, 2022 23:47:45 GMT
I saw this a couple nights ago and instantly forgot about it. The prospect of a dinner with TS Eliot and Groucho Marx is a funny one, it's a shame they really had nothing to say to one another. I got at least 95% of the references but to what end? The play was dull and while Ian Bartholomew is a swell actor, where was Groucho? The public persona was there in costume only and the private one was present at all. Lots of talented people involved but for me a waste of time.
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Post by Jan on Nov 25, 2022 7:29:55 GMT
Ian Bartholomew is a swell actor This play is directed by his wife Loveday Ingram I see. How is the great Greg Hicks ? In the past letting him near anything that resembles a comedy has been unproductive. |
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Post by dlevi on Nov 25, 2022 17:36:51 GMT
Dinner with Groucho "resembles a comedy." Greg Hicks isn't funny but playing TS Eliot doesn't demand that he be funny. |
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Post by bee on Dec 3, 2022 18:09:16 GMT
I saw today's matinee of this. It was strange, pretty entertaining, occasionally funny (the bit about King Lear especially) and the actors all did a good job. However, like others on here I struggled to find any point to it and ended up a bit baffled really.
Small crowd in as well, less than half full.
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Post by pws on Dec 7, 2022 22:22:12 GMT
Saw this last night and enjoyed it very much. Don't be put off by the reviews.
It was funny, zipped along at a good pace and was just right at 70 minutes.
Not completely full, but very respectable for a Tuesday night.
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