782 posts
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Post by rumbledoll on Apr 20, 2023 8:11:50 GMT
Is the stage particularly high for this at the Pinter?
Got a seat in Stalls D (the only thing i could snap last minute), but really keen to participate in the lottery as well but worrying for my poor little neck…
Also wondering are there any rumours/plans for filming it? Looks like it’s the hottest ticket in town and demand is not met even with extensions (god help the cast!)
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Post by solotheatregoer on Apr 20, 2023 9:17:02 GMT
Is the stage particularly high for this at the Pinter? Got a seat in Stalls D (the only thing i could snap last minute), but really keen to participate in the lottery as well but worrying for my poor little neck… Also wondering are there any rumours/plans for filming it? Looks like it’s the hottest ticket in town and demand is not met even with extensions (god help the cast!) You'll be absolutely fine. The stage isn't particularly high at the Pinter. I was sat in Row A in the stalls a few weeks back and had no issues at all. I also booked Row A at the Savoy in July. |
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Post by lostinlondon on Apr 21, 2023 5:08:27 GMT
Unexpectedly traveling to London this weekend and was delighted when a ticket became available for Saturday evening. I'm in Box D. Is anyone familiar with the view for this show?
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Post by mrnutz on Apr 21, 2023 9:09:14 GMT
Email received regarding Sunday's performance: -
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Post by yokollama on Apr 21, 2023 14:53:55 GMT
Unexpectedly traveling to London this weekend and was delighted when a ticket became available for Saturday evening. I'm in Box D. Is anyone familiar with the view for this show? I've not sat in the boxes before, but I think Box D is preferrable to sitting on the opposite side. There's more happening on stage left (looking onwards as an audience) in this show. You might miss what's happening on stage right (brief moments) or have quite a restricted view at the beginning of Act 2, but should hopefully be fine otherwise. |
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782 posts
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Post by rumbledoll on Apr 23, 2023 5:52:13 GMT
Saw the production last night and gotta agree to those here who mentioned that the events depicted are so repetitively harrowing that it make you numb and non-responsive at some point.. i guess it’s a part of survival instinct when you psyche shies away from the whole thing trying to save your sanity. I have no idea how the company does do that, especially James Norton, what a brave move for an actor to accept such a challenge..
Some mild spoilers might follow.
I never read the book so I tried to build up some more of Malcom's and JB’s lives in my mind because I thought at some point these characters became a bit abandoned when the focus shifted entirely to Jude-Will relationship, which I found very moving indeed. I also don’t know whether any of this based on true events, but there are times of disbelief because it’s such an unthinkable trauma, the most brutal abuse at such young age that went on for years and years, THAT amount of trauma for one person, with a horrible impact on both mental and physical health and then when things are starting to get better (a thin chance, I was in tears overwhelmed with a feeling of joy for Jude who finally got to experience the loving kindness he deserved) and then there’s another hammer blow which is so unfair snd unnecessary.. I mean why as an author would you hate your characters so much? This made me very angry, maybe that was intentional.. I would deffo cut the last 10 minutes If I was in charge…
As already stated, you cannot really ‘enjoy’ a show like this, but I’ll never regret I went even though it might be the most distressing thing I saw in theatre ever. And I’m afraid it will stay with me for a while…
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2023 9:20:24 GMT
Authors don't necessarily hate their characters just because they don't give them a happy ending. Life doesn't always provide happy endings even if that is how we might like to see people rewarded on stage or in film.
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782 posts
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Post by rumbledoll on Apr 23, 2023 10:27:45 GMT
Authors don't necessarily hate their characters just because they don't give them a happy ending. Life doesn't always provide happy endings even if that is how we might like to see people rewarded on stage or in film. Yes I do understand that, and I love myself a sad ending when it actually fits. There’s something beautiful in that as well, when, take The Crucible, you are given a glimpse of hope and then it’s brutally taken from you, but you sit there thinking: yes, it works. I would not want any other ending, would not trade it for anything, because it’s in character and giving them a happy ending would be denying their true nature. And this is a good example of an author loving a character, being devoted to them even when they are sending them to a death sentence. But the tragedy of losing hope here throws there entire thing into the litter for me. I was digging this before - a play about love, painful as it, how it can save us, how being intimate, giving in to someone, trust completely would feel so rewarding, so freeing that even a person with such a horrible past can begin to live again, which seemed impossible before. But now with that being thrown at Jude in the last 10 mins what does it add? Which idea it promotes now? It just makes no sense to me.. maybe someone could comment how it felt while reading a book.. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 23, 2023 13:04:04 GMT
Authors don't necessarily hate their characters just because they don't give them a happy ending. Life doesn't always provide happy endings even if that is how we might like to see people rewarded on stage or in film. Have you even seen the play / read the book? This is not just a non-happy ending, it's a whole other level of unnecessary, never-ending misery and trauma. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2023 14:14:11 GMT
Authors don't necessarily hate their characters just because they don't give them a happy ending. Life doesn't always provide happy endings even if that is how we might like to see people rewarded on stage or in film. Have you even seen the play / read the book? This is not just a non-happy ending, it's a whole other level of unnecessary, never-ending misery and trauma. Yes, I've seen the play and read the book, multiple times. I've also attended several lectures and conversations involving the author.
Would people prefer the predictable trite ending where Jude and Willem live happily ever after? I don't see how that is any way better than the one we get and can easily imagine people complaining about it as well. But to each their own.
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Post by mrnutz on Apr 24, 2023 10:21:31 GMT
Incredible. Harrowing. Brutal. Unique. Excellent.
Just a few of the words I’d use to describe my experience of a cheery Sunday afternoon at the Harold Pinter seeing this from seat AA14 of the on-stage seating, mere inches away from a variety of dark and depressing acts (and a not inconsiderable amount of nudity).
I thought this was an outstanding piece of theatre. Truly extraordinary. Heightened of course by sitting where I was. Definitely too close for comfort for some.
5/5
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2,848 posts
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Post by couldileaveyou on Apr 24, 2023 12:02:23 GMT
Publication of the playtext (NHBA) postponed from April 27th to May 11th
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Post by sleepflower on Apr 24, 2023 17:03:32 GMT
I've listed a ticket for the final night of this (5th Aug) on the Noticeboard!
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1,280 posts
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Post by theatrefan77 on Apr 24, 2023 19:16:59 GMT
I thought this was excellent. James Norton will probably get lots of awards in the next season. How he has the stamina to do this 8 times a week is beyond me. Truly remarkable.
The onstage seating is great. Beware of row CC though as there's backstage coming through at times. The day I went you could hear backstage people chatting and even having a fit of giggles during one of the quiet moments in the play which was very annoying
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2,848 posts
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Post by couldileaveyou on Apr 28, 2023 9:49:07 GMT
Publication of the playtext (NHBA) postponed from April 27th to May 11th never mind |
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Post by andrew on Apr 30, 2023 12:54:27 GMT
For me, it doesn't work.
I loved the book, didn't think it would work well as a play and I feel like I've been proven correct. My main feeling is that whilst I was at times uncomfortable, and felt a great deal of the anguish that characters on stage felt, I was rarely actually affected by what I saw on stage. In drilling this down into a 3 hour something play, all of the love and friendship and hope has been removed. What you're left with is pain, torture and abuse, which is very skilfully laid out, but I sat there quite numb for many hours. Without any of the good, the story of this man who just cannot ever escape the demons of the abuse he suffered as a chid fails to feel anywhere near as tragic as it does when it's slowly laid out on the page. You needed to spend time with the four friends as actual friends, you needed to spend time seeing Willem care passionately for Jude and slowly fall in love with him. Instead they fall out by the tenth minute, and when Jude and Willem decide to be together the focus is on the difficult sexual side of the relationship that then ensues. The rare moment where they dance to music and kiss was beautiful, and for me it's only in these moments where Jude's unending trauma and the love Jude's friends and family show him clash, that the tragedy of the story really lives.
The part of it that I thought did work on this level was the relationship between Jude and Harold, which seemed to have a little bit more time. The scene where Harold adopts Jude was exceptional. Zubin Varla also gives a great monologue at the end, although why bewilderingly he had to step out unlit into the audience (where I'm guessing anyone in the circles was unable to see him) to give it, I cannot say. And to be fair there were many great performances, many great technical moments. The direction of some terrifying scenes is very competent.
That all said, I don't think Ivo Van Hove was the right person to adapt this. I think if you wanted to give this story a go you'd need to split it into 2 parts, 4 acts, let it play out over 5 hours, bring back into it fun and friendship, maybe let the audience laugh a bit more often. I'd also personally cut out Dr Traylor which stretches credulity on stage.
I've written more than I meant to. I liked a lot of things in this, I just don't think it achieves anything by it ruthlessly keeping in every single moment of torture from the book at the exclusion of everything else.
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Post by A.Ham on Apr 30, 2023 13:45:28 GMT
I saw this last night and am still processing it all today. I suspect that’ll be the case for some time to come. I’ve ordered the book as want to get to know the characters better, but within the challenges of taking what I know to be a lengthy book and putting it on the stage, I think they’ve done well - but may of course change my mind once I’ve read the book!
Of course there’s a difficulty with taking almost any book and adapting it for film, TV or stage in that the book will always have more time in which to develop characters and plot. Personally I always prefer the watch the film/TV/stage version and then read the book ‘way round’, as I’ve often been disappointed with adaptations of books I love, so understand where andrew is coming from.
For me, it was an incredibly intense theatrical experience, made even more so by being in the first row of the on-stage seating. Seeing the emotion of Jude and Willem in particular at such close hand made me feel for their anguish even more. How James and Luke are doing this multiple times a week and twice per day on Thurs and Sats I’ve no idea. It was draining watching but I feel privileged to have witnessed it. Some lines just broke me and the tears fell, which is testament to their performances.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2023 14:44:21 GMT
I think if you wanted to give this story a go you'd need to split it into 2 parts, 4 acts, let it play out over 5 hours, bring back into it fun and friendship, maybe let the audience laugh a bit more often. Agree. And it would be more truthful to the relationship dynamics in the book. I'd love to know if they ever thought of this approach. Angels in America and The Inheritance have shown there is an audience (albeit it somewhat on the limited side) for longer works, even if in two parts. |
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Post by marob on Apr 30, 2023 17:50:38 GMT
I’m still only halfway through the book, and it’s been a few weeks now since I saw this, but Andrew’s summed up how I felt about it far better than I ever could.
Must admit the impact of Zubin Varla’s final speech was lost on me though. I was sitting in the third row, right behind the cellist, with no warning to keep the tiny space in front clear so had my coat and a bag full of books from Foyles there. So first I was distracted by looking up into the box, wondering what all that was about, then I realised ZV was headed right towards me and so was hurriedly shifting my stuff out of his way.
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Post by bwayboy22 on May 4, 2023 0:11:45 GMT
Saw this tonight. The acting was fantastic, but watching 3:40 worth of misery is not something I want to ever repeat. I think Norton deserves awards for his performance. The abuse was just so repetitive it got really old for me. I think they could trim an hour off this and you wouldn't lose anything. This needs more light moments to stop it from being such a depressing show - I am not saying I need a happy ending but just scene after scene of abuse gets really old and tiresome. I get it. He was horribly abused.
Also, for anyone who has read the book I have a question about his doctor friend. How are they friends? He seemed older - were they at school together? If they explained their relationship, I missed it.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2023 10:50:11 GMT
Because of a very bad episode while he was a student, Jude once had to go to the hospital connected to the university. Andy was the resident who treated him and became the only doctor he trusted.
From the book:
"He had been the only doctor Jude agreed to see again and again, and now, even though Andy was an orthopedic surgeon, he still treated Jude for anything that went wrong, from his back to his legs to flu and colds. They all liked Andy, and trusted him, too."
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Post by bwayboy22 on May 5, 2023 0:56:16 GMT
Because of a very bad episode while he was a student, Jude once had to go to the hospital connected to the university. Andy was the resident who treated him and became the only doctor he trusted. From the book: "He had been the only doctor Jude agreed to see again and again, and now, even though Andy was an orthopedic surgeon, he still treated Jude for anything that went wrong, from his back to his legs to flu and colds. They all liked Andy, and trusted him, too." Thank you! |
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Post by karloscar on May 5, 2023 7:39:45 GMT
Given the number of health issues Jude has, the device of having Andy as the only health worker he has any contact with always stretched credibility to the limits, especially since any medic worth a damn would recognise their own limitations with such a complex case, and he often seems to make things worse rather than better. (But his career is slightly more believable than Jude's improbable success and Willem's laughable acting résumé.)
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Post by mattnyc on May 11, 2023 17:20:10 GMT
I saw the matinee today and now feel like I want to curl up in a ball and just cry for the rest of the night.
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Post by jm25 on May 14, 2023 20:10:27 GMT
I watched this today and thought it was rather good. In general I'm not a fan of books being adapted for the stage or the screen because they're so hard to get right, but as far as adaptations go this was definitely one of the better ones.
That said, I'm very glad that I read the book beforehand. In spite of the visual shock factor, I found what was presented on stage much less traumatising than the book itself was to read, which was sort of like being hit repeatedly by a sledgehammer! The book was also able to fill in a lot of the detail that was left out on stage. Obviously I can understand why cuts needed to be made and on the whole I think it did an excellent job, but it did feel like the characters of Ana and Andy in particular (or at least their relationships to Jude) needed a bit more fleshing out. And by the end it was starting to feel like one trauma after another, whereas the novel does at least manage to cushion those scenes between kinder, more humane moments.
The acting was universally excellent. James Norton will rightly get all the plaudits but I was really pleasantly surprised by Luke Thompson. I've not seen Bridgerton and I don't think I've seen anything else that he's in, but based on how good he is in this I'd be happy to watch more of him. Credit, too, to Elliot Cowan - genuinely very sinister. Gave me the creeps!
The stage seats are such a fantastic bargain and I'm so pleased I managed to get one. It was just an all round fantastic experience, both being on stage and the whole process of getting there! I've got another ticket to watch this next month which I bought before the stage seats were released. Need to think about whether I go and see this twice or try and shift it because, whilst I did enjoy it, I'd probably classify this as good rather than great. 4/5 from me.
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